Prepared to drop a few grand learning to trade...

[KingRichard]

I know it's not really indicitive of success with real money, but I've been making decent returns over the last few days on a fantasy equities trading site.

I've basically been buying on positive news (mainly ft.com) and liquidising as soon as I've made more than 5%. I've been cutting my losses really early on too, usually at about the 5% mark also. I know there are going to be millions of far cleverer trading sytems out there, but I'm quite pleased with my self control so far.

The 'game' is really appealing, and I'd like to start trading for real. I have a few grand sitting idle in an account that I'd basically forgotten about... The intention is not to stop working (I love my business!) but to pump a few hundred quid a month into my investment 'account' and see if I can make any capital gains over the long term.

Basically I'd like to start with the mindset that my initial stake will be squandered on mistakes, much the same way I approach gambling (I'm not naive enough to think it's anything but gambling, certainly to begin with). I can afford to lose my stake and walk away unaffected - it's not part of a pension, I don't have children and it doesn't form any part of my income. Obviously I'll still squeal like a prison bh, but at least it won't affect me in the long run

Would I be better off paper trading alongside small real trades, or to continue building my stake whilst paper trading for experience?

I've also read that trading futures is better than equities for a small-time trader because far less capital is at risk (assuming sensible stop orders), and the potential gains are massively leveraged.

There is bound to be loads and loads that i've missed out, but if you could draw my attention to anything you think pertinent, that would be great.

Also, how do you keep records for tax purposes and how/when is CGT calculated?

I should probably worry about CGT if I actually make any gains... I know, I know!

[ShadownINja]

Since you've paper traded, you will have some sort of system. Why not try spreadbetting with IG Index (let me recommend you cos then I get a free book!).

You can demo trade futures and commodities with www.etx.co.uk (they're st, though, so don't deposit money with them).

Oh, and you don't need to risk a few thousand. A couple of hundred is a good start trading at 50p/point/tick/pip.

Edited by ShadownINja on Wednesday 28th January 14:42

[john_p]

So those of you who do trading from home, with all your screens and spare connections and days glued to a laptop screen, what do you actually *do* ?

As in, what do you watch for, what do you use the screens for, do you make a good living out of it, is it one of those things nobody tells anyone about because it's "their" thing and other people might take some of their share?

Because it sounds like fun .. and I spend all day glued to a screen anyway

[Sideways Tim]

I pissed a couple of grand up the wall trading futures a few years ago, while it was great fun, I managed to be wrong in my predictions every time. I'll offer my services to anyone for a 10% share of any profits you make. Just ask me which way the market is likely to go and do the opposite of whatever I tell you.

[Healey73]

I did a bit a few years back but never made huge amounts, it was just a bit of fun really when times were quiet although I did find it was starting to take over my life at one point so I knocked it on the head but I fancy a little dabble again. What sites are people using to trade? I used Barclays about 10 years back which was ok but they were not the cheapest.

[KingRichard]

ShadownINja said:

Since you've paper traded, you will have some sort of system. Why not try spreadbetting with IG Index (let me recommend you cos then I get a free book!).

You can demo trade futures and commodities with www.etx.co.uk (they're st, though, so don't deposit money with them).

Oh, and you don't need to risk a few thousand. A couple of hundred is a good start trading at 50p/point/tick/pip.

Edited by ShadownINja on Wednesday 28th January 14:42

I've paper traded for a few days... I've found that cut and run and watching gains until they start dropping then immediately sell is a relatively safe (if boring) way to trade. I've also only done this with equities. I wouldn't say I had a system as such

Can you recommend anyone good to deposit money with?

[ShadownINja]

IG Index...

[KingRichard]

ShadownINja said:

IG Index...

Ah, I keep seeing their adverts

[nonplussed]

I must admit I'm the same. I started on Bullbearings on Monday, and am now nearly 25% up. Like the OP I've got a taste for doing it for real, but is that a stupid idea? If not, what do people use? I'd prefer to start with share trading, although I can't say I understand it as such, conceptually it's easier to grasp than spread betting, and I'm a bit fick

Any suggestions much appreciated.

[KingRichard]

nonplussed said:

I must admit I'm the same. I started on Bullbearings on Monday, and am now nearly 25% up. Like the OP I've got a taste for doing it for real, but is that a stupid idea? If not, what do people use? I'd prefer to start with share trading, although I can't say I understand it as such, conceptually it's easier to grasp than spread betting, and I'm a bit fick

Any suggestions much appreciated.

IG index have a practice scheme, where you can place lower bets to reduce your risk...

[Torque Matters]

Sideways Tim said:

I managed to be wrong in my predictions every time. I'll offer my services to anyone for a 10% share of any profits you make. Just ask me which way the market is likely to go and do the opposite of whatever I tell you.

You'll be part of the 90-95% that lose money trading then.

[ShadownINja]

KingRichard said:

nonplussed said:

I must admit I'm the same. I started on Bullbearings on Monday, and am now nearly 25% up. Like the OP I've got a taste for doing it for real, but is that a stupid idea? If not, what do people use? I'd prefer to start with share trading, although I can't say I understand it as such, conceptually it's easier to grasp than spread betting, and I'm a bit fick

Any suggestions much appreciated.

IG index have a practice scheme, where you can place lower bets to reduce your risk...

ETX is free to try spreadbetting. But as I said, don't open an account with them.

[Horse_Apple]

KingRichard said:

I know it's not really indicitive of success with real money, but I've been making decent returns over the last few days on a fantasy equities trading site.

I've basically been buying on positive news (mainly ft.com) and liquidising as soon as I've made more than 5%. I've been cutting my losses really early on too, usually at about the 5% mark also. I know there are going to be millions of far cleverer trading sytems out there, but I'm quite pleased with my self control so far.

The 'game' is really appealing, and I'd like to start trading for real. I have a few grand sitting idle in an account that I'd basically forgotten about... The intention is not to stop working (I love my business!) but to pump a few hundred quid a month into my investment 'account' and see if I can make any capital gains over the long term.

Basically I'd like to start with the mindset that my initial stake will be squandered on mistakes, much the same way I approach gambling (I'm not naive enough to think it's anything but gambling, certainly to begin with). I can afford to lose my stake and walk away unaffected - it's not part of a pension, I don't have children and it doesn't form any part of my income. Obviously I'll still squeal like a prison bh, but at least it won't affect me in the long run

Would I be better off paper trading alongside small real trades, or to continue building my stake whilst paper trading for experience?

I've also read that trading futures is better than equities for a small-time trader because far less capital is at risk (assuming sensible stop orders), and the potential gains are massively leveraged.

There is bound to be loads and loads that i've missed out, but if you could draw my attention to anything you think pertinent, that would be great.

Also, how do you keep records for tax purposes and how/when is CGT calculated?

I should probably worry about CGT if I actually make any gains... I know, I know!

Hello,

I've been on this side of the market for 15 yrs. The people who open accounts not minding that they lose the fist block of cash will allways lose their money. It is the mindset that is completely wrong from the outset.

Papertrade until very comfortable and you have enough data to have seen your strategy work well and also collapse completely. Strategies are like broken clocks, in so much as even a bust clock tells the right time twice a day. You need a basic core strategy, which you have, and then you need to monitor the overall market trend and be prepared to make documented changes to your core concept.

Trading futures straight out is completely insane, and whoever told you that must be given a smack

Enormous margins and large contract values mean that a single contract will cost you all your money on margin and then a single intraday move and it's gone.

Start with something very liquid and cheap to trade and most importantly something which you feel you have a mental affinity towards. Maybe that is equities, or maybe it is fx or indices.

But whatever you do, if you geneuinely have the belief that you are happy to lose some money when you start out then don't do it at all. Factoring in a defeat before you have begun is not a winners strategy and I'm sure you wouldn't entertain it in any of your business dealings so you'll understand why it is a sign of catastrophe in the markets.

[condor]

I'm sure there's a long thread on IG index that was started in this business forum about 16 months ago.
The 'scheme' was nearly foolproof...it was spread betting on gold and silver futures. I only lost £150, but I think others lost a lot more.

[WTD]

the scheme was selling put options, although the contributors of said scheme didnt realise that, even though they were told...

[m4tt]

Hoodless Brennan are pretty cheap for execution only. Although most banks provide a sharedealing service for a reasonable fee. I know Natwest stockbrokers give you a £5000 trading limit (like an overdraft). HSBC can do this if requested. I'm sure the others do similar, altho having used Natwest and HSBC I know their systems. Don't even touch Halifax sharedealing as I found them to be appauling!

Good luck with trading, it does take a lot of bottle, and conviction. There is money to be made and lost easily, go in with an open mind and a good strategy and hopefully you won;t go far wrong!

[richardxjr]

You've started to form a strategy, buying equities and closing out quickly.

The thing is with options trading, or more aptly these days, spread betting with IGIndex etc, is that you are following the gains or losses of a position without having to tie money up in buying the underlying asset.
You can also 'trade' indices themselves (eg FTSE) which you can't otherwise buy in to.

I did a training course on such things back in the 80's which I enjoyed. I only dabbled a bit once spread betting started up a few years on. Made a few quid (not much really at all tbh) and then got too involved in a 'normal' business which took all my time and money!

With all the volatility I've been tempted to get back in, but I haven't got money to lose, so I'm oot for now.

Good luck!

[ShadownINja]

Spreadbetting isn't like options trading; binary betting is, however (Black Scholes model?).

With the current volatility, it's the worst time to get stuck in.

[KingRichard]

Update: Bought a few books... I'm halfway through the naked trader, which is really entertaining. I've got a few hundred quid logged with an online stockbroker in an ISA, and I'm getting my subscription sorted to live share prices.

Gonna see how things pan out with equities for a few months... happy to post updates or a trading diary on here if anyone is interested - no bragging, no boasting, no moaning and no tantrums - just a basic log of trades.

Which are the best news feeds to subscribe to? There are loads available

[richardxjr]

ShadownINja said:

Spreadbetting isn't like options trading; binary betting is, however (Black Scholes model?).

With the current volatility, it's the worst time to get stuck in.

Whoops looks like I got my terminology wrong there. Anyway, good job I've been out of it for ages now!