Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander, Advice sought - car lease

[PGM]

They have been in administration since last October due to the Icelandic banking collapse.

http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.uk/pages/3962

I have two cars leased with them through one of their subsiduaries Hermes, a Porsche 996 and Audi A6.

With my basic knowledge, I see them as in breach of contract due to the administration (the contract clearly states that if I become insolvent then contract is breached, but no mention of them).

Personally I'm not all that happy with the situation, the way it has been handled and dealing with them. There has been no advice of the administration directly to me as yet, I only know what I have read in the news and on their website.

I would like to terminate these contracts, but not sure on my legal position as it is said on their website all contracts remain in force.

Could anyone advise of a potential course of action?

[therealpigdog]

The fact that they are in administration does not matter - this would only apply if your company becomes insolvent.

Provided that they are not in breach of the contract (i.e. you still have the cars and they are maintaining them etc.) then you cannot get out of the contract without paying the relevant penalty charges.

[PGM]

Thanks, I suspected that was the case. Just don't like giving good money to crooks though.

[Soovy]

Makes no difference. You can't terminate on that basis.

Contract runs as is.

[PGM]

Thanks.

I'm happy with the cars but the reason for the enquiry was that I wondered if there was an opportunity to get better rates elsewhere.

I'll just keep on paying in that case, don't want to land myself in trouble!

[henna777]

PGM said:

Thanks, I suspected that was the case. Just don't like giving good money to crooks though.

Did you see Channel 4 news last night on KSR? The senior guy at Singers and Friedlander supposedly stated his concern to the financial securities agency about doubts in their ability to be allowed to take them over! I think it is being debated in parliment today, I got hit very hard and, as you posted, nothing much seems to be coming out, now 4 months on!

[PGM]

henna777 said:

PGM said:

Thanks, I suspected that was the case. Just don't like giving good money to crooks though.

Did you see Channel 4 news last night on KSR? The senior guy at Singers and Friedlander supposedly stated his concern to the financial securities agency about doubts in their ability to be allowed to take them over! I think it is being debated in parliment today, I got hit very hard and, as you posted, nothing much seems to be coming out, now 4 months on!

I saw an article about the main bank on BBC News website earlier talking about that which prompted me to post this. I've been continuing to make the payments since I found out in October but this latest information along with the continued lack of communication got my back up a bit to be honest.

Edited to add, sorry to for you having lost money in it makes me feel bad for moaning about my situation. Good luck.

Edited by PGM on Tuesday 3rd February 16:54

[henna777]

PGM said:

henna777 said:

PGM said:

Thanks, I suspected that was the case. Just don't like giving good money to crooks though.

Edited to add, sorry to for you having lost money in it makes me feel bad for moaning about my situation. Good luck.

Edited by PGM on Tuesday 3rd February 16:54

It is not over yet so fingers crossed, with my MP at the moment, hope my small business status saves the day !

[skwdenyer]

PGM said:

henna777 said:

PGM said:

Thanks, I suspected that was the case. Just don't like giving good money to crooks though.

Did you see Channel 4 news last night on KSR? The senior guy at Singers and Friedlander supposedly stated his concern to the financial securities agency about doubts in their ability to be allowed to take them over! I think it is being debated in parliment today, I got hit very hard and, as you posted, nothing much seems to be coming out, now 4 months on!

I saw an article about the main bank on BBC News website earlier talking about that which prompted me to post this. I've been continuing to make the payments since I found out in October but this latest information along with the continued lack of communication got my back up a bit to be honest.

Edited to add, sorry to for you having lost money in it makes me feel bad for moaning about my situation. Good luck.

Edited by PGM on Tuesday 3rd February 16:54

I'm a bit lost - what communication were you expecting?

The business you contracted-with still exists, it is simply being run by administrators rather than the original owners / managers. You're not a creditor, so you have no claim, but you are a debtor, so you need to keep on paying, since the business still exists and is continuing to fulfil its contractual requirements.

[Chrisgr31]

The personal ones with the option to buy include a clause to terminate the contract after a certain number of payments have been made. Do the business ones have a similar clause?

[PGM]

skwdenyer said:

PGM said:

henna777 said:

PGM said:

Thanks, I suspected that was the case. Just don't like giving good money to crooks though.

Did you see Channel 4 news last night on KSR? The senior guy at Singers and Friedlander supposedly stated his concern to the financial securities agency about doubts in their ability to be allowed to take them over! I think it is being debated in parliment today, I got hit very hard and, as you posted, nothing much seems to be coming out, now 4 months on!

I saw an article about the main bank on BBC News website earlier talking about that which prompted me to post this. I've been continuing to make the payments since I found out in October but this latest information along with the continued lack of communication got my back up a bit to be honest.

Edited to add, sorry to for you having lost money in it makes me feel bad for moaning about my situation. Good luck.

Edited by PGM on Tuesday 3rd February 16:54

I'm a bit lost - what communication were you expecting?

The business you contracted-with still exists, it is simply being run by administrators rather than the original owners / managers. You're not a creditor, so you have no claim, but you are a debtor, so you need to keep on paying, since the business still exists and is continuing to fulfil its contractual requirements.

Well, when a company you have a contract with is sold to another one you get a letter normally, out of courtesy as a minimum.

Maybe even an e-mail that would have been very easy and cheap.

I would have thought administration in a supplier was fairly important information.

[JustinP1]

PGM said:

skwdenyer said:

PGM said:

henna777 said:

PGM said:

Thanks, I suspected that was the case. Just don't like giving good money to crooks though.

Did you see Channel 4 news last night on KSR? The senior guy at Singers and Friedlander supposedly stated his concern to the financial securities agency about doubts in their ability to be allowed to take them over! I think it is being debated in parliment today, I got hit very hard and, as you posted, nothing much seems to be coming out, now 4 months on!

I saw an article about the main bank on BBC News website earlier talking about that which prompted me to post this. I've been continuing to make the payments since I found out in October but this latest information along with the continued lack of communication got my back up a bit to be honest.

Edited to add, sorry to for you having lost money in it makes me feel bad for moaning about my situation. Good luck.

Edited by PGM on Tuesday 3rd February 16:54

I'm a bit lost - what communication were you expecting?

The business you contracted-with still exists, it is simply being run by administrators rather than the original owners / managers. You're not a creditor, so you have no claim, but you are a debtor, so you need to keep on paying, since the business still exists and is continuing to fulfil its contractual requirements.

Well, when a company you have a contract with is sold to another one you get a letter normally, out of courtesy as a minimum.

Maybe even an e-mail that would have been very easy and cheap.

I would have thought administration in a supplier was fairly important information.

But it doesn't really affect your use of the car, does it?

After all, you have *their* assets, not the other way around. They probably didn't contact you as it has no effect on you.

[nsa]

Your contract should continue and will probably be bought out by another lender at a discount and run to maturity. You might be able to make an offer to the new lender if it suits them to lose you as a customer (probably doesn't). Most debts change hands without the original borrower knowing. A bit different, but when NTL went bust in 2001-2 the company even continued to accept new subscribers while the company's debt was being renegotiated.

[nsa]

Your contract should continue and will probably be bought out by another lender at a discount and run to maturity. You might be able to make an offer to the new lender if it suits them to lose you as a customer (probably doesn't). Most debts change hands without the original borrower knowing. A bit different, but when NTL went bust in 2001-2 the company even continued to accept new subscribers while the company's debt was being renegotiated.

[nsa]

Your contract should continue and will probably be bought out by another lender at a discount and run to maturity. You might be able to make an offer to the new lender if it suits them to lose you as a customer (probably doesn't). Most debts change hands without the original borrower knowing. A bit different, but when NTL went bust in 2001-2 the company even continued to accept new subscribers while the company's debt was being renegotiated.

[skwdenyer]

PGM said:

skwdenyer said:

PGM said:

henna777 said:

PGM said:

Thanks, I suspected that was the case. Just don't like giving good money to crooks though.

Did you see Channel 4 news last night on KSR? The senior guy at Singers and Friedlander supposedly stated his concern to the financial securities agency about doubts in their ability to be allowed to take them over! I think it is being debated in parliment today, I got hit very hard and, as you posted, nothing much seems to be coming out, now 4 months on!

I saw an article about the main bank on BBC News website earlier talking about that which prompted me to post this. I've been continuing to make the payments since I found out in October but this latest information along with the continued lack of communication got my back up a bit to be honest.

Edited to add, sorry to for you having lost money in it makes me feel bad for moaning about my situation. Good luck.

Edited by PGM on Tuesday 3rd February 16:54

I'm a bit lost - what communication were you expecting?

The business you contracted-with still exists, it is simply being run by administrators rather than the original owners / managers. You're not a creditor, so you have no claim, but you are a debtor, so you need to keep on paying, since the business still exists and is continuing to fulfil its contractual requirements.

Well, when a company you have a contract with is sold to another one you get a letter normally, out of courtesy as a minimum.

Maybe even an e-mail that would have been very easy and cheap.

But the business hasn't been sold. It still exists. It may never be sold or broken up.

PGM said:

I would have thought administration in a supplier was fairly important information.

I take your point. However I guess that these aren't "suppliers" in the common sense of the word. Their supply has (in the main) already been made to you. It is not IMHO analagous with, say, your widget supplier going into administration, at which point you would expect them to contact you, even if only to say "don't worry, we'll keep selling you widgets at the usual great prices whilst we re-organise our debt mountain".

But let's not fight, as there's little to fight about I guess my response was more because you sounded "entitled" to something, which of course you're not. For all of that, I agree, in the general run of things, an email might have been nice!