Discussion
I am going to have a company do seo for my website.
The keywords i have chosen add up to 2000 clicks per month on average, with one of those keywords being 1300 alone.
Now this company i am dealing with has told me that he believes it wont be too hard to get me near the top, he has made no promises mind.
He told me as rule of thumb that 12.5% of those 2000 people will actually go on to navigate my website.
He then said generally its accepted that 50% of those will go on to call ( i know its different for different buisness's and also what your website is like etc).
Does that sound realistic? If so my phone would be off the hook at over 100 calls per month.
I would hope for 10 calls per month and would expect to turn those 10 into at worst 3 jobs. So 100 odd may be a bit much
What do you guys think of what he said?
The keywords i have chosen add up to 2000 clicks per month on average, with one of those keywords being 1300 alone.
Now this company i am dealing with has told me that he believes it wont be too hard to get me near the top, he has made no promises mind.
He told me as rule of thumb that 12.5% of those 2000 people will actually go on to navigate my website.
He then said generally its accepted that 50% of those will go on to call ( i know its different for different buisness's and also what your website is like etc).
Does that sound realistic? If so my phone would be off the hook at over 100 calls per month.
I would hope for 10 calls per month and would expect to turn those 10 into at worst 3 jobs. So 100 odd may be a bit much
What do you guys think of what he said?
All depends on what keywords they are optimising for, what your service is and how they qualify their data.
We have sites doing 27,000 EXACT searches per month on Google, ie the domain name we have - xyz.com - (xyz being the search term) gets 27,000 EXACT searches per month.
Any data should be qualified on "exact" search terms not "broad" for example our 27,000 searches translates to over 100,000 broad searches.
Also depends on what they are charging you. To be fair when the site was designed and built the designer should have optimised it to maximise "clicks"
We have sites doing 27,000 EXACT searches per month on Google, ie the domain name we have - xyz.com - (xyz being the search term) gets 27,000 EXACT searches per month.
Any data should be qualified on "exact" search terms not "broad" for example our 27,000 searches translates to over 100,000 broad searches.
Also depends on what they are charging you. To be fair when the site was designed and built the designer should have optimised it to maximise "clicks"
Cheers for the reply.
The exact term which gets 1300 searches per month is 'driveways essex' iirc
When the site was made i just wanted the site done and wasn't bothered about people finding it ( the main reason i had it was to give the address to any potential customers to get them to read it) now i actually want to be found and want to generate work from it. Also the guys who made the site told me straight away they were web designers and although they could 'market' my site it would be better for a specialist to do it.
I am being charged £350 per mth for the first 3 and then £500 thereafter, i am under the impression £500 is the going rate. I am also able to just quit when/if i want.
If i got 10 calls per month i would be very pleased.
The exact term which gets 1300 searches per month is 'driveways essex' iirc
When the site was made i just wanted the site done and wasn't bothered about people finding it ( the main reason i had it was to give the address to any potential customers to get them to read it) now i actually want to be found and want to generate work from it. Also the guys who made the site told me straight away they were web designers and although they could 'market' my site it would be better for a specialist to do it.
I am being charged £350 per mth for the first 3 and then £500 thereafter, i am under the impression £500 is the going rate. I am also able to just quit when/if i want.
If i got 10 calls per month i would be very pleased.
m3jappa said:
He told me as rule of thumb that 12.5% of those 2000 people will actually go on to navigate my website.
He then said generally its accepted that 50% of those will go on to call ( i know its different for different buisness's and also what your website is like etc).
Does that sound realistic? If so my phone would be off the hook at over 100 calls per month.
I think you answered that yourself.He then said generally its accepted that 50% of those will go on to call ( i know its different for different buisness's and also what your website is like etc).
Does that sound realistic? If so my phone would be off the hook at over 100 calls per month.
50% of people that visit your website will go on to call you?
You would be doing well if you got 5%. Even then you would have to be giving something away.
I would be vary wary about anyone who quotes something like that. Especially at £500 a month. I pay £200 and get a good job done.
If they are going to get you in the top 3 of Google and guarantee it for that, then fair enough, but 50% conversion they must even know is just dreamland.
m3jappa said:
The exact term which gets 1300 searches per month is 'driveways essex' iirc
How has this company qualified 1300 searches per month for that phrase?I have a Wordtracker account (which for anyone doing any kind of SEO or research into is absolutely invaluable) and it's telling me 'driveways essex' has seen 95 searches over the last 160 days. Somewhat different.
Tim
m3jappa said:
The exact term which gets 1300 searches per month is 'driveways essex' iirc
Nope - 'driveway essex' got 420 searches on Google in January, the monthly average is 320. 'drivewayS essex' does not have enough data to give a count for January (i.e. practically no one searched for it), but does give a monthly average of 480 searches in Google (UK) - but this may mean that everyone in Essex that wants a drive done has had it done - thus no searches in January 
You can mop up the rest by being a bit more specific 'driveways ____' Chelmsford, Romford etc., these are getting 50-70 hits each.
50% is nonsense, as mentioned by someone above you should be happy if you got a 5% conversion (to contact not job).
m3jappa said:
I am being charged £350 per mth for the first 3 and then £500 thereafter, i am under the impression £500 is the going rate. I am also able to just quit when/if i want.
This is very reasonable (if they're any good), we charge £1k on the first month and £800 per month thereafter, 12 months - after the initial 6-8 weeks work we usually document 50-70 actions per account per month.A process plan would look something like this (1st date = Start, 2nd date = target, 3rd date = completed) -
Optimization Keyword Analysis 09 October 2008 14 October 2008 10 October 2008
Optimization Site Optimization 16 October 2008 28 October 2008 24 October 2008
Optimization Site Upload 30 October 2008 04 November 2008 30 October 2008
Optimization Perform Submission 20 November 2008 21 November 2008 21 November 2008
Optimization Set-up and Implement GoogleBase Uploads (if appropriate) 02 December 2008 12 December 2008 15 December 2008
Submission Initial Submission 06 November 2008 08 November 2008 06 November 2008
Submission Verify that Core Submission is Complete into primary search engines (Google, MSN, Yahoo) 10 November 2008 20 November 2008 10 November 2008
Submission Full Submission 22 November 2008 27 November 2008 26 November 2008
Link Building Start Link Building 10 November 2008 20 November 2008 10 November 2008
Link Building Achieve Target Links (Link Building) 21 November 2008 19 December 2008 21 November 2008
Link Building Achieve Target Links (Link Building) 21 December 2008 18 January 2009 05 January 2009
Link Building Achieve Target Links (Link Building) 21 January 2009 18 February 2009 21 January 2009
Link Building Achieve Target Links (Link Building) 21 February 2009 21 March 2009 23 February 2009
Link Building Achieve Target Links (Link Building) 21 March 2009 18 April 2009
Monitoring Telephone the client to discuss progress, touch base, etc 14 October 2008 15 October 2008 14 October 2008
Monitoring Check for broken links and other site integrity issues 30 October 2008 01 November 2008 30 October 2008
Monitoring Telephone the client to discuss progress, touch base, etc 13 November 2008 14 November 2008 13 November 2008
Monitoring Reviewed Campaign Ranking Results 28 November 2008 26 December 2008 01 December 2008
Monitoring Check for broken links and other site integrity issues 30 November 2008 02 December 2008 04 December 2008
Monitoring Reviewed Campaign Ranking Results 28 December 2008 25 January 2009 05 January 2009
Monitoring Checked Site Listings in Major Search Engines 31 December 2008 05 January 2009 05 January 2009
Monitoring Check for broken links and other site integrity issues 05 January 2009 07 January 2009 05 January 2009
Monitoring Conduct Peer Review with other CDMs 26 January 2009 31 January 2009 27 January 2009
Monitoring Reviewed Campaign Ranking Results 28 January 2009 25 February 2009 28 January 2009
Monitoring Perform Quarterly Campaign Review with Client 30 January 2009 04 February 2009 04 February 2009
Monitoring Checked Site Listings in Major Search Engines 31 January 2009 05 February 2009 03 February 2009
Monitoring Check for broken links and other site integrity issues 05 February 2009 07 February 2009 05 February 2009
Monitoring Checked Site Listings in Major Search Engines 28 February 2009 05 March 2009
Monitoring Reviewed Campaign Ranking Results 28 February 2009 28 March 2009
Monitoring Check for broken links and other site integrity issues 05 March 2009 07 March 2009
Monitoring Re-visit Keywords (based on performance) 26 April 2009 01 May 2009
Monitoring Perform Quarterly Campaign Review with Client 30 April 2009 05 May 2009
Monitoring Conduct Peer Review with other CDMs 26 July 2009 31 July 2009
As you can see, SEO is a full time job - pay peanuts get monkeys etc.
I did take a look at the firm you're looking at and they look okay except for a massive warning sign - they mentioned buying links, if Google catches you buying links you'll get dumped from the listings often permanently.
Anyhooo, good luck, I'll feel a little responsible if this doesn't go well for you as IIRC it was me that convinced you to go down the SEO route.
Best,
Don
As Donny says, from what I have seen of your business from other threads, SEO is a good way forward. There are plenty of other companies when I did a Google search already though.
Speak to a few companies and sound them out.
SEO is something which could be done by someone with little more than a college course. Alternatively they might have a decade of experience and a proven track record.
Whether you have the former or the latter will define whether you are getting value or not. I would suggest that what you have been told about 50% is totally laughable, and if the guy really believes that he knows nothing about business or the internet. If he is BSing you about that now, what is the SEO going to be like when he has the cash?
Speak to a few companies and sound them out.
SEO is something which could be done by someone with little more than a college course. Alternatively they might have a decade of experience and a proven track record.
Whether you have the former or the latter will define whether you are getting value or not. I would suggest that what you have been told about 50% is totally laughable, and if the guy really believes that he knows nothing about business or the internet. If he is BSing you about that now, what is the SEO going to be like when he has the cash?
I can't remember where I found this list, but I use this as a rule of thumb:
[quote]
Ranking Number 1 receives 42.1 percent of click throughs.
Ranking Number 2 receives 11.9 percent of click throughs.
Ranking Number 3 receives 8.5 percent of click throughs.
Ranking Number 4 receives 6.1 percent of click throughs.
Ranking Number 5 receives 4.9 percent of click throughs.
Ranking Number 6 receives 4.1 percent of click throughs.
Ranking Number 7 receives 3.4 percent of click throughs.
Ranking Number 8 receives 3.0 percent of click throughs.
Ranking Number 9 receives 2.8 percent of click throughs.
Ranking Number 10 receives 3.0 percent of click throughs.
[/quote]
[quote]
Ranking Number 1 receives 42.1 percent of click throughs.
Ranking Number 2 receives 11.9 percent of click throughs.
Ranking Number 3 receives 8.5 percent of click throughs.
Ranking Number 4 receives 6.1 percent of click throughs.
Ranking Number 5 receives 4.9 percent of click throughs.
Ranking Number 6 receives 4.1 percent of click throughs.
Ranking Number 7 receives 3.4 percent of click throughs.
Ranking Number 8 receives 3.0 percent of click throughs.
Ranking Number 9 receives 2.8 percent of click throughs.
Ranking Number 10 receives 3.0 percent of click throughs.
[/quote]
We use a company called Fresh Egg to do our SEO, they're not cheap but their techniques are bang up to date, they know what they are doing and maintain our optimisation plan on a monthly basis. Just comparing Analytic figures from when we launched our new website in October 2008 to the past month, our organic traffic has increased by 150%, while our Adword traffic (which costs a lot per month) has dropped by around 10% - this is a trend we want to continue and we haven't really started to gain much ground in Google just yet!! 
I'm learning a lot from what they are doing so it's handy for me, but it's definitely something that will take time to learn effectively - I would definitely consider it a full time job just building links and articles to create natural quality inbound links (reciprocal links these days are pointless, yet many business still contact us asking to share links!).
Hope this helps. But as Don says, pay peanuts and all that...
James
I'm learning a lot from what they are doing so it's handy for me, but it's definitely something that will take time to learn effectively - I would definitely consider it a full time job just building links and articles to create natural quality inbound links (reciprocal links these days are pointless, yet many business still contact us asking to share links!).
Hope this helps. But as Don says, pay peanuts and all that...
James
Many thanks for the replies.
So what do you guys think i should do? Stick with these guys for 3 months and see how it goes or sack them off now?
I cant remember the exact keywords he told me he was using, i thought driveway essex was a good one but i cant remember now, it may have been block paving essex which was better, he said one was 1300 per month.
Whats all the buisness with buying links? I don't understand ANY of that stuff at all.
Again thanks guys.
So what do you guys think i should do? Stick with these guys for 3 months and see how it goes or sack them off now?
I cant remember the exact keywords he told me he was using, i thought driveway essex was a good one but i cant remember now, it may have been block paving essex which was better, he said one was 1300 per month.
Whats all the buisness with buying links? I don't understand ANY of that stuff at all.
Again thanks guys.
JustinP1 said:
m3jappa said:
He told me as rule of thumb that 12.5% of those 2000 people will actually go on to navigate my website.
He then said generally its accepted that 50% of those will go on to call ( i know its different for different buisness's and also what your website is like etc).
Does that sound realistic? If so my phone would be off the hook at over 100 calls per month.
I think you answered that yourself.He then said generally its accepted that 50% of those will go on to call ( i know its different for different buisness's and also what your website is like etc).
Does that sound realistic? If so my phone would be off the hook at over 100 calls per month.
50% of people that visit your website will go on to call you?
You would be doing well if you got 5%. Even then you would have to be giving something away.
I would be vary wary about anyone who quotes something like that. Especially at £500 a month. I pay £200 and get a good job done.
If they are going to get you in the top 3 of Google and guarantee it for that, then fair enough, but 50% conversion they must even know is just dreamland.
Are they providing copy for your site too? You'd need one hell of a strong sales offer to get anything near to a 50% enquiry rate.
SlimJ said:
We use a company called Fresh Egg to do our SEO, they're not cheap but their techniques are bang up to date, they know what they are doing and maintain our optimisation plan on a monthly basis. Just comparing Analytic figures from when we launched our new website in October 2008 to the past month, our organic traffic has increased by 150%, while our Adword traffic (which costs a lot per month) has dropped by around 10% - this is a trend we want to continue and we haven't really started to gain much ground in Google just yet!!
I'm learning a lot from what they are doing so it's handy for me, but it's definitely something that will take time to learn effectively - I would definitely consider it a full time job just building links and articles to create natural quality inbound links (reciprocal links these days are pointless, yet many business still contact us asking to share links!).
Hope this helps. But as Don says, pay peanuts and all that...
James
Nice site James, but you'll be losing a lot of sales as the telephone number isn't immediately available. I'm learning a lot from what they are doing so it's handy for me, but it's definitely something that will take time to learn effectively - I would definitely consider it a full time job just building links and articles to create natural quality inbound links (reciprocal links these days are pointless, yet many business still contact us asking to share links!).
Hope this helps. But as Don says, pay peanuts and all that...
James
Maybe i,m trying to condone what i have done but.....
The services i offer differ from say selling laptops or selling trainers etc.
I would imagine that people who search on the internet for block paving will by and large be people who are actually wanting to get it done or at least considering it and doing their research.
I can't really offer something like buy one get one free or 50% off or the sort of thing you may see on a site selling laptops but what i can offer is the best or one of the best websites for my line of work including better photos, more info and generally making myself look better than the competition.
From what i can see and from the feedback i have been given i have a very good site which is going to help, once they phone me all the better.
I fully don't expect to get 100 calls a month, 10 would be nice. Tbh even 5 would be ok, in todays climate if i even got one job per month out of it then even considering the payment i have to make it would be better than having nothing- i don't think many people will be getting rich this year at least.
I just don't see that if i,m say within the top few i cant acheive that. I know the guy doing the service is going to say i,ll get silly numbers, after all hes not going to say 'ah well mate you should get a few calls' as to be fair most of the public will move onto the next guy who does say something silly, a shame but imo the truth.
All i can do for now is sit tight on this one for a while and see where it goes, IF they get me up high then i,ll monitor the calls, if they dont get me up there within 3 months then i,ll have to start thinking about using someone else.
Besides, my optimistic side is telling me i,ll be busy again within a couple of months. Things can change within a matter of days in my game (like many others i assume). In the past i have had no work at the beginning of say Febuary and by the end i,ll have 3 months work. I dont need many customers to be busy and i wouldnt need a lot more to be earning very well.
Must remain positive
The services i offer differ from say selling laptops or selling trainers etc.
I would imagine that people who search on the internet for block paving will by and large be people who are actually wanting to get it done or at least considering it and doing their research.
I can't really offer something like buy one get one free or 50% off or the sort of thing you may see on a site selling laptops but what i can offer is the best or one of the best websites for my line of work including better photos, more info and generally making myself look better than the competition.
From what i can see and from the feedback i have been given i have a very good site which is going to help, once they phone me all the better.
I fully don't expect to get 100 calls a month, 10 would be nice. Tbh even 5 would be ok, in todays climate if i even got one job per month out of it then even considering the payment i have to make it would be better than having nothing- i don't think many people will be getting rich this year at least.
I just don't see that if i,m say within the top few i cant acheive that. I know the guy doing the service is going to say i,ll get silly numbers, after all hes not going to say 'ah well mate you should get a few calls' as to be fair most of the public will move onto the next guy who does say something silly, a shame but imo the truth.
All i can do for now is sit tight on this one for a while and see where it goes, IF they get me up high then i,ll monitor the calls, if they dont get me up there within 3 months then i,ll have to start thinking about using someone else.
Besides, my optimistic side is telling me i,ll be busy again within a couple of months. Things can change within a matter of days in my game (like many others i assume). In the past i have had no work at the beginning of say Febuary and by the end i,ll have 3 months work. I dont need many customers to be busy and i wouldnt need a lot more to be earning very well.
Must remain positive
Hi M3,
Even if the guy is good and is just being over-optimistic, you're looking at 4 months to really start to get the benefit.
Write some milestones down now - what would you be happy with results wise, make a diary note for 4 months from now, check the document then (not before) if they haven't been met, ditch him without procrastinating.
Good luck - give us some feedback as you go.
Best,
Don
Even if the guy is good and is just being over-optimistic, you're looking at 4 months to really start to get the benefit.
Write some milestones down now - what would you be happy with results wise, make a diary note for 4 months from now, check the document then (not before) if they haven't been met, ditch him without procrastinating.
Good luck - give us some feedback as you go.
Best,
Don
What's screaming out to me is that £350 rising to £500 per month is a lot of outlay with no guarantee of getting results.
I would seriously look at going down the AdWords route, as you will see instant results and can keep tight control of your budget.
Paving Essex was the search term with 1300 searches, but this was broad match rather than exact - Google's definition of broad match can be fairly interesting at times!
On that term, and driveway essex, you should be able to get into positions 1-3 for £1 per click, so your £350 budget will send 350 visitors to your site per month, and working on a 10% conversion rate (for the sake of argument) you're looking at 35 enquiries which have cost you £10 each.
To me that's a much better business proposition than SEO where there's no guarantee of any increase in enquiries, or the time frame of any increase.
I would seriously look at going down the AdWords route, as you will see instant results and can keep tight control of your budget.
Paving Essex was the search term with 1300 searches, but this was broad match rather than exact - Google's definition of broad match can be fairly interesting at times!
On that term, and driveway essex, you should be able to get into positions 1-3 for £1 per click, so your £350 budget will send 350 visitors to your site per month, and working on a 10% conversion rate (for the sake of argument) you're looking at 35 enquiries which have cost you £10 each.
To me that's a much better business proposition than SEO where there's no guarantee of any increase in enquiries, or the time frame of any increase.
grumbas said:
What's screaming out to me is that £350 rising to £500 per month is a lot of outlay with no guarantee of getting results.
I would seriously look at going down the AdWords route, as you will see instant results and can keep tight control of your budget.
Paving Essex was the search term with 1300 searches, but this was broad match rather than exact - Google's definition of broad match can be fairly interesting at times!
On that term, and driveway essex, you should be able to get into positions 1-3 for £1 per click, so your £350 budget will send 350 visitors to your site per month, and working on a 10% conversion rate (for the sake of argument) you're looking at 35 enquiries which have cost you £10 each.
To me that's a much better business proposition than SEO where there's no guarantee of any increase in enquiries, or the time frame of any increase.
Agreed.I would seriously look at going down the AdWords route, as you will see instant results and can keep tight control of your budget.
Paving Essex was the search term with 1300 searches, but this was broad match rather than exact - Google's definition of broad match can be fairly interesting at times!
On that term, and driveway essex, you should be able to get into positions 1-3 for £1 per click, so your £350 budget will send 350 visitors to your site per month, and working on a 10% conversion rate (for the sake of argument) you're looking at 35 enquiries which have cost you £10 each.
To me that's a much better business proposition than SEO where there's no guarantee of any increase in enquiries, or the time frame of any increase.
£350 is a lot.
I am paying £170 plus VAT, and I have got top 3 results in the searches I wanted in a couple of months.
As well as that I did my own Adwords campaign. As has been explained, you are paying per click so you can't really lose unless your site is poor, and that is not the case with the OP.
Through Adwords, my cost per conversion rate is about £1.50.
A friend of mine has just left agency life to do SEO/PPC freelance. If you want another quote (i'm sure you've had loads of offers by now) then I can ask him to get in touch with you.
I agree with the posts that advise using adwords (it's what I do for a living) but I'm not sure you are best to go it alone. You would probably be better paying someone to set the account up and then paying them a monthly amount for upkeep. Adwords can be pretty easy to use but some people have blown a lot of cash by not using budgets properly and using broad match terms incorrectly.
Let me know if you have any questions and i'll try to help!
I agree with the posts that advise using adwords (it's what I do for a living) but I'm not sure you are best to go it alone. You would probably be better paying someone to set the account up and then paying them a monthly amount for upkeep. Adwords can be pretty easy to use but some people have blown a lot of cash by not using budgets properly and using broad match terms incorrectly.
Let me know if you have any questions and i'll try to help!
Thanks guys.
I have paid this bloke one months money now so for this month at least i am stuck. If i got someone else next month would i be able to pick up from where the first people left off? or would i have to start again?
£170 per mth is MUCH more appealing and i could use a couple of hundred for adwords.
One concern for adwrods though is i have heard of competitors sitting there clicking your site so you run your budget down.
Any truth to that one?
I have paid this bloke one months money now so for this month at least i am stuck. If i got someone else next month would i be able to pick up from where the first people left off? or would i have to start again?
£170 per mth is MUCH more appealing and i could use a couple of hundred for adwords.
One concern for adwrods though is i have heard of competitors sitting there clicking your site so you run your budget down.
Any truth to that one?
Andrew[MG] said:
I agree with the posts that advise using adwords (it's what I do for a living) but I'm not sure you are best to go it alone. You would probably be better paying someone to set the account up and then paying them a monthly amount for upkeep. Adwords can be pretty easy to use but some people have blown a lot of cash by not using budgets properly and using broad match terms incorrectly.
Totally agree, I can imagine it would be very easy to blow a lot of money very easily if you're not sure how it all works. Just using broad match inappropriately can do serious damage to your budget.I'd try to find someone that would be willing to set the account up for a one-off fee and then take a small monthly fee to monitor/manage it - for your industry I can't see the account taking up much time once established.
I'd suggest steering clear of agencies that want to work on being paid a % of spend, they'll possibly be going for volume over quality to ensure they earn their maximum commission!
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