Looking for Warehouse/Workshop space
Discussion
Hi, I'm looking to start a small, automotive related, project with couple of friends. We've all been made redundant and they have fantastic skills, I have an idea. We've a little money and I've an offer of VC financing but don't know how solid that still is.
What we are looking for is some space where we can build and test. Ideally shared space in a warehouse. Given where we all live somewhere between North London and Milton Keynes.
If anyone has an empty warehouse they are looking to short-term let. I'm interested.
Simon
What we are looking for is some space where we can build and test. Ideally shared space in a warehouse. Given where we all live somewhere between North London and Milton Keynes.
If anyone has an empty warehouse they are looking to short-term let. I'm interested.
Simon
simonrockman said:
Hi, I'm looking to start a small, automotive related, project with couple of friends. We've all been made redundant and they have fantastic skills, I have an idea. We've a little money and I've an offer of VC financing but don't know how solid that still is.
What we are looking for is some space where we can build and test. Ideally shared space in a warehouse. Given where we all live somewhere between North London and Milton Keynes.
If anyone has an empty warehouse they are looking to short-term let. I'm interested.
Simon
Simon. How much space do you need, and how much do you want to spend? There are a lot of deals around at the moment due to the current economic situation. I can't meet your brief directly myself, but I could offer you a 1400 square foot industrial unit just off Brick Lane (great for a curry after work...) but, being very central, it might be too expensive - £20k pa + rates, with 18 months remaining on lease.What we are looking for is some space where we can build and test. Ideally shared space in a warehouse. Given where we all live somewhere between North London and Milton Keynes.
If anyone has an empty warehouse they are looking to short-term let. I'm interested.
Simon
For shared / casual / short-term / whatever, it is well worth looking on Gumtree.
I was in a very similar position, and location, last year.
The problem tends to be that as soon as you move in you start to acquire rights, although the landlords will do what they can to limit those rights (and that's quite a lot), but it all takes time and costs lots of money.
Even if you take over the end bit of someone else's lease that will require the landlord's permission and hence the legal stuff starts up again.
I ended up on a local farm, and hold my workshop on a licence rather than a lease, very little paperwork and in my case two months notice either way. That's good for me because I can see that I may want to move in a while anyway.
So, my suggestion is to pick an ideal area and try some farms, ask about a licence rather than a lease.
The problem tends to be that as soon as you move in you start to acquire rights, although the landlords will do what they can to limit those rights (and that's quite a lot), but it all takes time and costs lots of money.
Even if you take over the end bit of someone else's lease that will require the landlord's permission and hence the legal stuff starts up again.
I ended up on a local farm, and hold my workshop on a licence rather than a lease, very little paperwork and in my case two months notice either way. That's good for me because I can see that I may want to move in a while anyway.
So, my suggestion is to pick an ideal area and try some farms, ask about a licence rather than a lease.
singlecoil said:
I was in a very similar position, and location, last year.
The problem tends to be that as soon as you move in you start to acquire rights, although the landlords will do what they can to limit those rights (and that's quite a lot), but it all takes time and costs lots of money.
Even if you take over the end bit of someone else's lease that will require the landlord's permission and hence the legal stuff starts up again.
I ended up on a local farm, and hold my workshop on a licence rather than a lease, very little paperwork and in my case two months notice either way. That's good for me because I can see that I may want to move in a while anyway.
So, my suggestion is to pick an ideal area and try some farms, ask about a licence rather than a lease.
With respect, I disagree with most of what you've said above. You can do your own legal work, most landlords will agree to a standard Law Society lease on something straightforward like an industrial unit, and - especially at the moment - landlords should not be expecting tenants to pay both sides' legal fees.The problem tends to be that as soon as you move in you start to acquire rights, although the landlords will do what they can to limit those rights (and that's quite a lot), but it all takes time and costs lots of money.
Even if you take over the end bit of someone else's lease that will require the landlord's permission and hence the legal stuff starts up again.
I ended up on a local farm, and hold my workshop on a licence rather than a lease, very little paperwork and in my case two months notice either way. That's good for me because I can see that I may want to move in a while anyway.
So, my suggestion is to pick an ideal area and try some farms, ask about a licence rather than a lease.
Rights and security cut both ways. A license will give you little or no security, so you may be forced to move at very little notice or hit with very high rent increases if the market starts to pick up.
skwdenyer said:
singlecoil said:
I was in a very similar position, and location, last year.
The problem tends to be that as soon as you move in you start to acquire rights, although the landlords will do what they can to limit those rights (and that's quite a lot), but it all takes time and costs lots of money.
Even if you take over the end bit of someone else's lease that will require the landlord's permission and hence the legal stuff starts up again.
I ended up on a local farm, and hold my workshop on a licence rather than a lease, very little paperwork and in my case two months notice either way. That's good for me because I can see that I may want to move in a while anyway.
So, my suggestion is to pick an ideal area and try some farms, ask about a licence rather than a lease.
With respect, I disagree with most of what you've said above. You can do your own legal work, most landlords will agree to a standard Law Society lease on something straightforward like an industrial unit, and - especially at the moment - landlords should not be expecting tenants to pay both sides' legal fees.The problem tends to be that as soon as you move in you start to acquire rights, although the landlords will do what they can to limit those rights (and that's quite a lot), but it all takes time and costs lots of money.
Even if you take over the end bit of someone else's lease that will require the landlord's permission and hence the legal stuff starts up again.
I ended up on a local farm, and hold my workshop on a licence rather than a lease, very little paperwork and in my case two months notice either way. That's good for me because I can see that I may want to move in a while anyway.
So, my suggestion is to pick an ideal area and try some farms, ask about a licence rather than a lease.
Rights and security cut both ways. A license will give you little or no security, so you may be forced to move at very little notice or hit with very high rent increases if the market starts to pick up.
I think the chances of being able to find another workshop within the 2 months (or negotiate a bit more if needed) are very good, and is a chance I would far sooner take than being committed to three years of rent and rates if the business doesn't go as planned (which I believe is the majority position for start up businesses).
singlecoil said:
skwdenyer said:
singlecoil said:
I was in a very similar position, and location, last year.
The problem tends to be that as soon as you move in you start to acquire rights, although the landlords will do what they can to limit those rights (and that's quite a lot), but it all takes time and costs lots of money.
Even if you take over the end bit of someone else's lease that will require the landlord's permission and hence the legal stuff starts up again.
I ended up on a local farm, and hold my workshop on a licence rather than a lease, very little paperwork and in my case two months notice either way. That's good for me because I can see that I may want to move in a while anyway.
So, my suggestion is to pick an ideal area and try some farms, ask about a licence rather than a lease.
With respect, I disagree with most of what you've said above. You can do your own legal work, most landlords will agree to a standard Law Society lease on something straightforward like an industrial unit, and - especially at the moment - landlords should not be expecting tenants to pay both sides' legal fees.The problem tends to be that as soon as you move in you start to acquire rights, although the landlords will do what they can to limit those rights (and that's quite a lot), but it all takes time and costs lots of money.
Even if you take over the end bit of someone else's lease that will require the landlord's permission and hence the legal stuff starts up again.
I ended up on a local farm, and hold my workshop on a licence rather than a lease, very little paperwork and in my case two months notice either way. That's good for me because I can see that I may want to move in a while anyway.
So, my suggestion is to pick an ideal area and try some farms, ask about a licence rather than a lease.
Rights and security cut both ways. A license will give you little or no security, so you may be forced to move at very little notice or hit with very high rent increases if the market starts to pick up.
I think the chances of being able to find another workshop within the 2 months (or negotiate a bit more if needed) are very good, and is a chance I would far sooner take than being committed to three years of rent and rates if the business doesn't go as planned (which I believe is the majority position for start up businesses).
As ever, it is a trade-off: security versus liability; cheaper lease versus more expensive license; and so on. You're quite right that, for a start-up, a lease may not be the ideal way to go. Equally, from my own experience, doing lots of work (decorating, sorting out screens / partitions, installing wiring and lighting, and so on) is equally a large committment when (a) you're paying from the get-go (most leases in this market will allow you a rent-free period), and (b) might have to strip it all out if the landlord gives you notice.
For the OP, I agree, that a license may well be a sensible option, if the hassle of moving is not too great; it doesn't sound, from what he's said, as if he'd be expecting to invest too much in the place.
As to lease terms: in the current marketplace, rolling tenant-only break clauses on one month's notice after the first six months are getting increasingly common. It is a buyer's market in many areas, and many landlords (who may be heavily leveraged) will be far more interested in the potential upsides and trying to encourage a solvent, financially-backed tenant to sign up than in trying to make it difficult to get out of it.
Either way, I have no axe to grind! All I can say is well done to the OP for trying to get something going!
skwdenyer said:
singlecoil said:
I was in a very similar position, and location, last year.
The problem tends to be that as soon as you move in you start to acquire rights, although the landlords will do what they can to limit those rights (and that's quite a lot), but it all takes time and costs lots of money.
Even if you take over the end bit of someone else's lease that will require the landlord's permission and hence the legal stuff starts up again.
I ended up on a local farm, and hold my workshop on a licence rather than a lease, very little paperwork and in my case two months notice either way. That's good for me because I can see that I may want to move in a while anyway.
So, my suggestion is to pick an ideal area and try some farms, ask about a licence rather than a lease.
With respect, I disagree with most of what you've said above. You can do your own legal work, most landlords will agree to a standard Law Society lease on something straightforward like an industrial unit, and - especially at the moment - landlords should not be expecting tenants to pay both sides' legal fees.The problem tends to be that as soon as you move in you start to acquire rights, although the landlords will do what they can to limit those rights (and that's quite a lot), but it all takes time and costs lots of money.
Even if you take over the end bit of someone else's lease that will require the landlord's permission and hence the legal stuff starts up again.
I ended up on a local farm, and hold my workshop on a licence rather than a lease, very little paperwork and in my case two months notice either way. That's good for me because I can see that I may want to move in a while anyway.
So, my suggestion is to pick an ideal area and try some farms, ask about a licence rather than a lease.
Rights and security cut both ways. A license will give you little or no security, so you may be forced to move at very little notice or hit with very high rent increases if the market starts to pick up.
The occupier market is suffering so companies and individuals with vacant properties are very keen to secure an income and mitigate their holding costs. So you will be able to negotiate a rent free period if you take a lease.
Lots of landlords aren't going to be overly keen on granting a licence as it offers them no certainty of income. They have agents (like me) and lawyers plus they want to pay themselves. All of which adds up so a licence where the tenant can walk away at very short notice might not offer enough guaranteed income to make it worthwhile.
A well negotiated lease on the other hand could offer a start up a substantial rent free period to allow for set up costs and include breaks in the future to allow for expansion (I assume you plan to succeed!).
Now is a time when a start up will be given the chance to agree terms on some decent kit, 6 months ago without a large rent deposit it probably wasn't going to happen.
As has been said don't ignore set up costs and don't think your landlord won't be looking for someone wanting a 3/5 year term on the space you occupy under licence. If they find them you're out.
Most of all good luck.
Lots of landlords aren't going to be overly keen on granting a licence as it offers them no certainty of income. They have agents (like me) and lawyers plus they want to pay themselves. All of which adds up so a licence where the tenant can walk away at very short notice might not offer enough guaranteed income to make it worthwhile.
A well negotiated lease on the other hand could offer a start up a substantial rent free period to allow for set up costs and include breaks in the future to allow for expansion (I assume you plan to succeed!).
Now is a time when a start up will be given the chance to agree terms on some decent kit, 6 months ago without a large rent deposit it probably wasn't going to happen.
As has been said don't ignore set up costs and don't think your landlord won't be looking for someone wanting a 3/5 year term on the space you occupy under licence. If they find them you're out.
Most of all good luck.
The occupier market is suffering so companies and individuals with vacant properties are very keen to secure an income and mitigate their holding costs. So you will be able to negotiate a rent free period if you take a lease.
Lots of landlords aren't going to be overly keen on granting a licence as it offers them no certainty of income. They have agents (like me) and lawyers plus they want to pay themselves. All of which adds up so a licence where the tenant can walk away at very short notice might not offer enough guaranteed income to make it worthwhile.
A well negotiated lease on the other hand could offer a start up a substantial rent free period to allow for set up costs and include breaks in the future to allow for expansion (I assume you plan to succeed!).
Now is a time when a start up will be given the chance to agree terms on some decent kit, 6 months ago without a large rent deposit it probably wasn't going to happen.
As has been said don't ignore set up costs and don't think your landlord won't be looking for someone wanting a 3/5 year term on the space you occupy under licence. If they find them you're out.
Most of all good luck.
Lots of landlords aren't going to be overly keen on granting a licence as it offers them no certainty of income. They have agents (like me) and lawyers plus they want to pay themselves. All of which adds up so a licence where the tenant can walk away at very short notice might not offer enough guaranteed income to make it worthwhile.
A well negotiated lease on the other hand could offer a start up a substantial rent free period to allow for set up costs and include breaks in the future to allow for expansion (I assume you plan to succeed!).
Now is a time when a start up will be given the chance to agree terms on some decent kit, 6 months ago without a large rent deposit it probably wasn't going to happen.
As has been said don't ignore set up costs and don't think your landlord won't be looking for someone wanting a 3/5 year term on the space you occupy under licence. If they find them you're out.
Most of all good luck.
leginigel said:
I have 19,000sq feet with easy in and out terms as above with law society lease.Just out side Chelmsford with parking and on site 24 hour CCTV if you or any one else are still looking please phone me on 01245 401403 ask for Nigel Wood.This a Ind est with full planing not a farm on which you have no rights.
That's a lot bigger than I was looking for, and quite a way east, but I'll speak to my partners and call you.Simon
simonrockman said:
leginigel said:
I have 19,000sq feet with easy in and out terms as above with law society lease.Just out side Chelmsford with parking and on site 24 hour CCTV if you or any one else are still looking please phone me on 01245 401403 ask for Nigel Wood.This a Ind est with full planing not a farm on which you have no rights.
That's a lot bigger than I was looking for, and quite a way east, but I'll speak to my partners and call you.Simon
I've got 1400 square feet in E1 (just off Brick Lane). Drive-in, parking in front, self-contained, lots of height (4.5m ceilings). However, since it is in the centre of town, it might be too much for you: £20k pa + rates, but no VAT. You can have it on a license, or you could have an assignment of a lease ending in about 18 months.
Alternatively, I may be able to offer you a portion of a 55,000 square foot building near New Cross, London. Excellent terms, flexible sizes, very low rents (could do as low £10psf, possibly lower depending upon how much space you took).
But I realise that "in town" may not be what you're after.
thisislife said:
Simon,
How much are you looking for the 19,000sq ft in Chelmsford? Im in Chelmsford myself, currently have 11,000 but looking to move in a few months to something around the 19-20k size.
Where abouts is the unit?
Regards
I think the unit you are talking about is mine 19,000 in chelmsford we are in South Hanningfield road,South Hanningfield Just off the old A130,please phone me on monday as i'm off to the race reto this weekend.My number is 07802651167 or 01245401403 Regards Nigel WoodHow much are you looking for the 19,000sq ft in Chelmsford? Im in Chelmsford myself, currently have 11,000 but looking to move in a few months to something around the 19-20k size.
Where abouts is the unit?
Regards
Just as a flyer in case anyone is reading and is interested, I've potentially got 54,000 square feet in Central / SE London (just south of the river). Available as a whole or in parcels of 8k sq ft upwards. Rents at around £6 psf; license or 3-5 year lease. Post a note here if interested. Thanks!
skwdenyer said:
Just as a flyer in case anyone is reading and is interested, I've potentially got 54,000 square feet in Central / SE London (just south of the river). Available as a whole or in parcels of 8k sq ft upwards. Rents at around £6 psf; license or 3-5 year lease. Post a note here if interested. Thanks!
Sorry was not jumping on your client just thought he was more in line with me(Chelmsford).Good luck with Central and SE London sounds cheap for that part of London!leginigel said:
skwdenyer said:
Just as a flyer in case anyone is reading and is interested, I've potentially got 54,000 square feet in Central / SE London (just south of the river). Available as a whole or in parcels of 8k sq ft upwards. Rents at around £6 psf; license or 3-5 year lease. Post a note here if interested. Thanks!
Sorry was not jumping on your client just thought he was more in line with me(Chelmsford).Good luck with Central and SE London sounds cheap for that part of London!
Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff