Anyone started a business with a sophisticated CMS???
Discussion
Hi,
Just wanted to ask peoples advice on businesses that rely on heavy investment into a web based content management system.
I've been chatting to a friend who has recently set up a business that required a lot of investment into a content management system. Their not selling a product, but more providing a management service that all runs through the CMS. It is also vital as once turnover increases, the system aids the growth of the businesses without much more investment in new staff etc.
To cut a long story short, 12 months into the business, the CMS is still needing a lot of development. They've spent close to 6 figures into its development and things aren't working how they should be which is causing problems which need more development time to fix. I kind of think that they've gone too far to back out with these developers, but could have probably got the job done cheaper by going down a different route.
What I want to ask is that if I was to start up my own CMS intensive business, what avenue would you recommend and why;
1) Raise the funds and apply for business link funding (Percentage subsidies) and pay a business link approved developer inflated development prices to get the job done.
2) Present the idea to a developer friend for development in return for a percentage of the business. (If I was to do this, can any advise on the best way to go about it, considering a project will always need continuous development.)
3) Raise the funds and hire a full time developer for X months for X price who's sole job is to build and develop the project and then potentially keep him on a part time basis to help maintain everything.
Thanks.
Just wanted to ask peoples advice on businesses that rely on heavy investment into a web based content management system.
I've been chatting to a friend who has recently set up a business that required a lot of investment into a content management system. Their not selling a product, but more providing a management service that all runs through the CMS. It is also vital as once turnover increases, the system aids the growth of the businesses without much more investment in new staff etc.
To cut a long story short, 12 months into the business, the CMS is still needing a lot of development. They've spent close to 6 figures into its development and things aren't working how they should be which is causing problems which need more development time to fix. I kind of think that they've gone too far to back out with these developers, but could have probably got the job done cheaper by going down a different route.
What I want to ask is that if I was to start up my own CMS intensive business, what avenue would you recommend and why;
1) Raise the funds and apply for business link funding (Percentage subsidies) and pay a business link approved developer inflated development prices to get the job done.
2) Present the idea to a developer friend for development in return for a percentage of the business. (If I was to do this, can any advise on the best way to go about it, considering a project will always need continuous development.)
3) Raise the funds and hire a full time developer for X months for X price who's sole job is to build and develop the project and then potentially keep him on a part time basis to help maintain everything.
Thanks.
Edited by ItsTony on Sunday 28th March 23:01
I always think Tony that any business propositon should stand on its on feet without subsidy and on that basis you should be able to comfortably approach any bank with a funding proposition.
Where you have a shortfall in cashflow funding or capital injection for prototype funding then it boils down to appetite for risk but the fundamentals remain the same, the business case must stack up, its not a case of a Business Link Stack Up or WHY.
I understand the dilema of getting in too deep; I've personally lost a lot of money doing this before, but I've learnt- either get the business model right or cut your losses.
Where you have a shortfall in cashflow funding or capital injection for prototype funding then it boils down to appetite for risk but the fundamentals remain the same, the business case must stack up, its not a case of a Business Link Stack Up or WHY.
I understand the dilema of getting in too deep; I've personally lost a lot of money doing this before, but I've learnt- either get the business model right or cut your losses.
I run a company that does that sort of thing and would be happy to talk you through the options in more detail but here's my (brief) take on your questions:
1) Business Link - my experience is that they're not necessarily the most experienced people with this type of thing but it depends entirely on the advisor you talk to.
2) JV - be very careful who you work with. They've got to be a) good enough and b) financially stable enough to work on the project whilst not generating other income else your project is always going to be a lower priority.
3) Employ a developer - with the best will in the world, are you experienced enough to take on the "right" developer? We get involved in many, many projects where the in-house guy has developed it using their preferred technology and techniques - to be honest it often ends in tears (which is why we're involved). There's also the risk factor - if that guy moves on, proves to be useless, etc - what then?
Take advice from as many people as you can. Seriously consider using Open Source technology - this way the licensing costs are massively reduced and the project can be passed onto other suppliers in the event of a problem.
We've been around long enough to have created a number of CMS' and we know pretty much use Open Source for everything we do. Even governments are going that way (EG http://www.whitehouse.gov/ uses Drupal - an Open Source CMS).
All of our internal systems (invoicing, work flow, CRM, etc) are based on Drupal and we've created some fairly complex systems using this technology and never regretted it.
I'd be happy to have a chat and see if we're a good fit or at least pass on some advice.
1) Business Link - my experience is that they're not necessarily the most experienced people with this type of thing but it depends entirely on the advisor you talk to.
2) JV - be very careful who you work with. They've got to be a) good enough and b) financially stable enough to work on the project whilst not generating other income else your project is always going to be a lower priority.
3) Employ a developer - with the best will in the world, are you experienced enough to take on the "right" developer? We get involved in many, many projects where the in-house guy has developed it using their preferred technology and techniques - to be honest it often ends in tears (which is why we're involved). There's also the risk factor - if that guy moves on, proves to be useless, etc - what then?
Take advice from as many people as you can. Seriously consider using Open Source technology - this way the licensing costs are massively reduced and the project can be passed onto other suppliers in the event of a problem.
We've been around long enough to have created a number of CMS' and we know pretty much use Open Source for everything we do. Even governments are going that way (EG http://www.whitehouse.gov/ uses Drupal - an Open Source CMS).
All of our internal systems (invoicing, work flow, CRM, etc) are based on Drupal and we've created some fairly complex systems using this technology and never regretted it.
I'd be happy to have a chat and see if we're a good fit or at least pass on some advice.
john_p said:
What sort of CMS are you talking about? Why does it differ so radically from an off the shelf product like Drupal
I guess he's talking about something a bit more than a conventional website CMS. We use Drupal as a framework so we don't have to re-invent the wheel (EG ecommerce integration, etc) but because all of the source code is available it's not really off the shelf if that makes sense.For example, we've used Drupal to create a mobile workforce management system - integrates with vehicle tracking systems, Sage, Tom Tom satnav and has a PDA/mobile interface that the mobile workforce use for time sheets and work allocation.
Drupal really is an incredibly powerful platform for things like that yet is often overlooked.
Edited by DanHF on Monday 29th March 11:20
As people have said, there is very little point developing your own CMS unless your requirements are very, very specific.
There are so many good opensource solutions such as Expression Engine, drupal etc and some very, very good commercial offerings (we are sitecore partners so I have to declare an interest) like sitecore, immediacy etc..
If you want options drop me a line.
D
There are so many good opensource solutions such as Expression Engine, drupal etc and some very, very good commercial offerings (we are sitecore partners so I have to declare an interest) like sitecore, immediacy etc..
If you want options drop me a line.
D
To echo others' comments: it makes a lot of sense to re-use the core of an existing Open Source CMS like Drupal as a framework to build whatever custom system you need.
As to the question of whether to go in with a friend or hire a developer, this will very much depend. On the one hand, a friend with ownership of the business is likely to be motivated to make it succeed and won't "count the hours". Provided he actually has the time to commit (e.g. doesn't have a 60 hour work week anyway) this can be important if the software is the lynchpin of your business. On the other hand, a full time developer can get things done quickly, but of course you are taking a risk that they are good and won't build you something totally unsuitable. You can take precautions, e.g. make sure he doesn't use his latest play-language you could never find anyone to maintain, and use core open source software with a lot of exposure. The key is to make it easy for someone else to come in and maintain the system - developers don't like maintaining code. As with any kind of software, it's quite difficult to know how long it will take, and therefore how much it will cost.
Dan says he would be wary of hiring a developer as he often sees these people develop poor systems. I would just like to point out that (as Dan himself says) if they were successful software projects he wouldn't be involved. Dan probably doesn't see most of the successful projects out there, and my experience is probably opposite from his. That is, most software developed in house by permanent employees is better quality than contractor/outsourced work. Mainly because contractors get paid more if making changes and maintenance is difficult/time consuming. I've seen far too many of these projects limp along because the original devs did 'just enough' for management to see it working on the surface.
As to the question of whether to go in with a friend or hire a developer, this will very much depend. On the one hand, a friend with ownership of the business is likely to be motivated to make it succeed and won't "count the hours". Provided he actually has the time to commit (e.g. doesn't have a 60 hour work week anyway) this can be important if the software is the lynchpin of your business. On the other hand, a full time developer can get things done quickly, but of course you are taking a risk that they are good and won't build you something totally unsuitable. You can take precautions, e.g. make sure he doesn't use his latest play-language you could never find anyone to maintain, and use core open source software with a lot of exposure. The key is to make it easy for someone else to come in and maintain the system - developers don't like maintaining code. As with any kind of software, it's quite difficult to know how long it will take, and therefore how much it will cost.
Dan says he would be wary of hiring a developer as he often sees these people develop poor systems. I would just like to point out that (as Dan himself says) if they were successful software projects he wouldn't be involved. Dan probably doesn't see most of the successful projects out there, and my experience is probably opposite from his. That is, most software developed in house by permanent employees is better quality than contractor/outsourced work. Mainly because contractors get paid more if making changes and maintenance is difficult/time consuming. I've seen far too many of these projects limp along because the original devs did 'just enough' for management to see it working on the surface.
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