Phone line dead / wiring help
Discussion
Hi Guys,
Hoping someone can help.
The phone line at my parents has gone dead - not sure how to get this fixed, let me explain.
The master socket has two extensions running off it, and additionally the ADT alarm. The complication, I expect will be TalkTalk won;t want t touch it due to the alarm being connected or something along those lines. I've proved the fault is inside the house so not TalkTalks responsibility, but as the alarm works, it's not ADTs either ... so catch 22 - happy to pay if required, it's not the money, its that fact I don't think ADT will touch it.
So I head down today and take a look - I've determined.
The symptom is that there is no dial tone, just a bit of 'crackle'.
1. The phone socket is live one the faceplate is removed and the phone plugged into the test socket.
2. I called ADT, despite there bing no dial tone, they have confirmed the alarm is communicating fine with them - I spoke to a engineer who sounded competent, he was also a little surprised the alarm worked.
3. Unplugged everything from every socket in the house, line still 'dead' when plugged in to the master socket (with the faceplate attached)
3. The wiring is connected as follows:
There are 3 cables coming in x2 extensions and x1 alarm
There are x2 orange and white dot wires connected to pin 3, these come from the two extensions - I think these are the ringers.
The two blue and white dot wries from the extensions and a green and white dot from the alarm are twisted together and taped up .
The two white and blue dot wires from the extensions and wite and green dot from the alarm are twisted together and taped up.
The white and blue dot from the alarm goes to pin 5
The blue and white from the alarm goes to pin 2
I'm a bit confued about the wires twisted together - I guess these are like a ring circuit perhaps ...
I disconnected the wires from pins 2 and 5, faceplate back - phone works, put them back gain, no dial tone.
My suggestion would be to disconnect the two extensions (permanently) presume this could be done by untwisting the two taped up pairs from the alarm wires (the green ones) and taping up seperately.
I've currently left the phone plugged into the test socket with the router and added a wireless USB dongle to the PC upstairs - all works (as a tmp workaround).
The extensions are not needed, the PC can be wireless and I've put the cordless phone from the kitchen upstairs - no phone socket required as it works off the main unit downstairs.
If anyone could shed some light on this it would be appreciated - I have no confidence in TalkTalk (past experience) and the ADT engineeri who visiited for a service back in March said the alarm wasn't connecting to ADT ... A further visit from ADT and they said it was wired wrong, which was odd as they installed it and it was definately working for the past 12 years, and
I'm 99.9% certain no one has touched it as there have been no faults that have needed an engineer to visit the house - so that is a mystery, but the explanation doesn;t fill me with confidence.
As to the current fault , it was working last Sunday, dead on Monday ...
Talktalk are a two week wait for an Eng - hes due next Sat , so you can see my concern - really we need talktalk and adt there at the same time, but that is going to be pretty close to zero chance of happeneing.
Tthanks in advance.
Martin
Hoping someone can help.
The phone line at my parents has gone dead - not sure how to get this fixed, let me explain.
The master socket has two extensions running off it, and additionally the ADT alarm. The complication, I expect will be TalkTalk won;t want t touch it due to the alarm being connected or something along those lines. I've proved the fault is inside the house so not TalkTalks responsibility, but as the alarm works, it's not ADTs either ... so catch 22 - happy to pay if required, it's not the money, its that fact I don't think ADT will touch it.
So I head down today and take a look - I've determined.
The symptom is that there is no dial tone, just a bit of 'crackle'.
1. The phone socket is live one the faceplate is removed and the phone plugged into the test socket.
2. I called ADT, despite there bing no dial tone, they have confirmed the alarm is communicating fine with them - I spoke to a engineer who sounded competent, he was also a little surprised the alarm worked.
3. Unplugged everything from every socket in the house, line still 'dead' when plugged in to the master socket (with the faceplate attached)
3. The wiring is connected as follows:
There are 3 cables coming in x2 extensions and x1 alarm
There are x2 orange and white dot wires connected to pin 3, these come from the two extensions - I think these are the ringers.
The two blue and white dot wries from the extensions and a green and white dot from the alarm are twisted together and taped up .
The two white and blue dot wires from the extensions and wite and green dot from the alarm are twisted together and taped up.
The white and blue dot from the alarm goes to pin 5
The blue and white from the alarm goes to pin 2
I'm a bit confued about the wires twisted together - I guess these are like a ring circuit perhaps ...
I disconnected the wires from pins 2 and 5, faceplate back - phone works, put them back gain, no dial tone.
My suggestion would be to disconnect the two extensions (permanently) presume this could be done by untwisting the two taped up pairs from the alarm wires (the green ones) and taping up seperately.
I've currently left the phone plugged into the test socket with the router and added a wireless USB dongle to the PC upstairs - all works (as a tmp workaround).
The extensions are not needed, the PC can be wireless and I've put the cordless phone from the kitchen upstairs - no phone socket required as it works off the main unit downstairs.
If anyone could shed some light on this it would be appreciated - I have no confidence in TalkTalk (past experience) and the ADT engineeri who visiited for a service back in March said the alarm wasn't connecting to ADT ... A further visit from ADT and they said it was wired wrong, which was odd as they installed it and it was definately working for the past 12 years, and
I'm 99.9% certain no one has touched it as there have been no faults that have needed an engineer to visit the house - so that is a mystery, but the explanation doesn;t fill me with confidence.
As to the current fault , it was working last Sunday, dead on Monday ...
Talktalk are a two week wait for an Eng - hes due next Sat , so you can see my concern - really we need talktalk and adt there at the same time, but that is going to be pretty close to zero chance of happeneing.
Tthanks in advance.
Martin
When the line is 'dead', is the line busy when you call it?
If yes, I'd put my money on the alarm being 'off hook' and not clearing down.
Are you able to disconnect the line from the alarm only? it shouldn't be permanently wired in I wouldn't have thought..
PS your point 1) suggests the problem is not with talk talk as you say so I guess they will charge for the visit? Get the kettle on and may get away with it!
If yes, I'd put my money on the alarm being 'off hook' and not clearing down.
Are you able to disconnect the line from the alarm only? it shouldn't be permanently wired in I wouldn't have thought..
PS your point 1) suggests the problem is not with talk talk as you say so I guess they will charge for the visit? Get the kettle on and may get away with it!
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 28th September 22:26
I would have to x2 check, but I'm sure the phone line is busy when called - with the faceplacte in, so you may well be spot on.
Problem I had was pins 2 and 5 come from the alarm, sure I disconneted those and it all worked, but that disconnected the etensions as well, and the b/w w/b from the extensions are twised together with the w/g g/w from the alarm, so I can't easity just connect the extensions (or disconnect) - I presume, given only the alarm is connected to the f/plate that the g/w w/g wires are like a 'passthrough' to get to 'hook in' the b/w w/b from the extensions into the circuit instead of having no greens, and the w/b b/w connected straight into the faceplate also on pins 2 and 5, which I guess wont work (3 wirws into one terminal is a bit of a squash I imagine).
So if I twist and separet the twisted pairs, and retest, would that be the correct next step - if still faulty, then it's the alarm ...
Would help if I wasn't 50 miles away ...
My money was on the alarm, not very scientific but with everything unplugged from the extensions, I figured the chance was higher with the alarm being faulty than a fault on the extension boxes or wiring ...
Problem I had was pins 2 and 5 come from the alarm, sure I disconneted those and it all worked, but that disconnected the etensions as well, and the b/w w/b from the extensions are twised together with the w/g g/w from the alarm, so I can't easity just connect the extensions (or disconnect) - I presume, given only the alarm is connected to the f/plate that the g/w w/g wires are like a 'passthrough' to get to 'hook in' the b/w w/b from the extensions into the circuit instead of having no greens, and the w/b b/w connected straight into the faceplate also on pins 2 and 5, which I guess wont work (3 wirws into one terminal is a bit of a squash I imagine).
So if I twist and separet the twisted pairs, and retest, would that be the correct next step - if still faulty, then it's the alarm ...
Would help if I wasn't 50 miles away ...
My money was on the alarm, not very scientific but with everything unplugged from the extensions, I figured the chance was higher with the alarm being faulty than a fault on the extension boxes or wiring ...
As you say, the only way to prove it is to disconnect the alarm wires only (from 2 & 5 which are the line).
To be honest the alarm company are a bit naughty permanent wiring it in. It should plug in like a telephone so that Joe public can unplug it without the faff you're having.
Do ADT carry out annual checks, can they send out an engineer to do routine check and prove their bit is ok?
To be honest the alarm company are a bit naughty permanent wiring it in. It should plug in like a telephone so that Joe public can unplug it without the faff you're having.
Do ADT carry out annual checks, can they send out an engineer to do routine check and prove their bit is ok?
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 28th September 22:58
You've established that fault in in house. You've got three cables to the master socket. Bit laborious, but it's now mark the individual cables ( bit of tape /sticky label etc and note which colour goes where ( cable 1- white with blue marker goes to pin x). Then advise ADT you may cause problems,and you will need password etc to confirm you are genuine.
Remove all cables ,reinsert master socket front and test at front socket. Replace one cable ( checking that there's no shorts if you're not using a proper krone tool)and test.
Problems- faulty cable route found. OK- try next cable.
Remove all cables ,reinsert master socket front and test at front socket. Replace one cable ( checking that there's no shorts if you're not using a proper krone tool)and test.
Problems- faulty cable route found. OK- try next cable.
OK, just checked - yes the phone line was engaged ...
As mentioned I did disconnect the alarm. but that also disconnected the extensions as they are connected via the twisted pairs, so I'll untwist these leaving the alarm connected and if the fault is still there bingo ...
Many Many thanks, very helpful advice ...
As mentioned I did disconnect the alarm. but that also disconnected the extensions as they are connected via the twisted pairs, so I'll untwist these leaving the alarm connected and if the fault is still there bingo ...
Many Many thanks, very helpful advice ...
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