Sharing internet connection and Outlook
Discussion
Chaps,
A couple of IT questions, one which concerns a long-term lack of success, one of which is a more recent lack of success! (This may be a fairly long post.)
Background ... I have a desktop computer, running Win 2000 Pro. I also have a laptop computer, running Win XP Pro. And very nice they both are. They both need to be able to access the internet, therefore there is a modem in both machines. Usually, if I am at home, I use the desktop machine to look at Email and the internet (PH!) When I am away from home, I use the dial-up facilities of the laptop.
Some time ago, I patted myself on the back very warmly, as I managed to set up a network between these two computers. Nothing complex - a crossover cable, and use of 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.0.2 as the IP addresses. I found out how to map drives and it was all very satisfying.
A little while later (following some advice from PH), I was even more pleased with myself as I managed to make drives on the desktop available on the laptop offline (using the built-in "Synchronize" software as part of XP on the laptop.) This was very useful, as I can use one information store on both machines, and they both update it. This was surprisingly easy to set up, and I was most pleased with it.
The problems started at this stage. My next step was to try and make an internet connection share between the two machines. And I have never succeeded in this. Everyone tells me it is very simple, but I just can't make it work. One website suggested that I needed the network service called "NetBUI", so I installed this on both machines and turned it on. "Enable Internet Connection Sharing for this connection" is turned on for the desktop connection, and outlook on the laptop is set so that it looks for an internet connection on the network. However, I still can't make this work. If anyone has any ideas, please do let me know. (Point me in the direction of an easy-to-follow website - this may be the best idea.) I suspect that I am having a problem with the different versions of windows, but am not sure about this.
The other problem is kind-of related. My latest idea is to make Emails synchronize between the two machines. I can share drives, allowing off-line access to the ones on the desktop when the laptop is away from home, and I would like to be able to do the same for Email. Ideally, the two machines would share both an inbox and various other folders, with them all being available on the desktop and the laptop, and them updating each other when the laptop is connected to the network. However, both machines need to be able to connect to the internet independantly (for instance, if I have the laptop away from home and Mrs zcacogp wants to connect using the desktop at home). Then, if both machines download emails to the inbox (or elsewhere), they need to be able to update each other when they are next networked.
Hope this made sense. If anyone can help with either of the above then I'd be most grateful.
Other details.
The desktop has a Sygate Personal Firewall, but it is set to allow unlimited access between the desktop and the laptop.
Both machines have AVG anti-virus software. I only need to allow the laptop to share the internet connection on the desktop, not the other way around, while I am at home. BUT, the laptop also needs to be able to dial-up to my ISP (surfanytime) when I am away from home.
I haven't tried sharing the connection the other way around (i.e. from the laptop to the desktop) as this wouldn't be useful.
My next proposed IT purchase (probably 3-4 months away) is broadband, with a wireless router. If this has any bearing on the answers to the above, then please do let me know.
Many thanks for any help you can offer.
Oli.
A couple of IT questions, one which concerns a long-term lack of success, one of which is a more recent lack of success! (This may be a fairly long post.)
Background ... I have a desktop computer, running Win 2000 Pro. I also have a laptop computer, running Win XP Pro. And very nice they both are. They both need to be able to access the internet, therefore there is a modem in both machines. Usually, if I am at home, I use the desktop machine to look at Email and the internet (PH!) When I am away from home, I use the dial-up facilities of the laptop.
Some time ago, I patted myself on the back very warmly, as I managed to set up a network between these two computers. Nothing complex - a crossover cable, and use of 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.0.2 as the IP addresses. I found out how to map drives and it was all very satisfying.
A little while later (following some advice from PH), I was even more pleased with myself as I managed to make drives on the desktop available on the laptop offline (using the built-in "Synchronize" software as part of XP on the laptop.) This was very useful, as I can use one information store on both machines, and they both update it. This was surprisingly easy to set up, and I was most pleased with it.
The problems started at this stage. My next step was to try and make an internet connection share between the two machines. And I have never succeeded in this. Everyone tells me it is very simple, but I just can't make it work. One website suggested that I needed the network service called "NetBUI", so I installed this on both machines and turned it on. "Enable Internet Connection Sharing for this connection" is turned on for the desktop connection, and outlook on the laptop is set so that it looks for an internet connection on the network. However, I still can't make this work. If anyone has any ideas, please do let me know. (Point me in the direction of an easy-to-follow website - this may be the best idea.) I suspect that I am having a problem with the different versions of windows, but am not sure about this.
The other problem is kind-of related. My latest idea is to make Emails synchronize between the two machines. I can share drives, allowing off-line access to the ones on the desktop when the laptop is away from home, and I would like to be able to do the same for Email. Ideally, the two machines would share both an inbox and various other folders, with them all being available on the desktop and the laptop, and them updating each other when the laptop is connected to the network. However, both machines need to be able to connect to the internet independantly (for instance, if I have the laptop away from home and Mrs zcacogp wants to connect using the desktop at home). Then, if both machines download emails to the inbox (or elsewhere), they need to be able to update each other when they are next networked.
Hope this made sense. If anyone can help with either of the above then I'd be most grateful.
Other details.
The desktop has a Sygate Personal Firewall, but it is set to allow unlimited access between the desktop and the laptop.
Both machines have AVG anti-virus software. I only need to allow the laptop to share the internet connection on the desktop, not the other way around, while I am at home. BUT, the laptop also needs to be able to dial-up to my ISP (surfanytime) when I am away from home.
I haven't tried sharing the connection the other way around (i.e. from the laptop to the desktop) as this wouldn't be useful.
My next proposed IT purchase (probably 3-4 months away) is broadband, with a wireless router. If this has any bearing on the answers to the above, then please do let me know.
Many thanks for any help you can offer.
Oli.
ICS is problematic when using static IP's unless you know exactly how to set up DNS, gateways, etc. Setup ICS on the desktop to parcel out IP's (in it's limited DHCP sort of way). Also ICS is best used in a broadband environment - of course, then again, a nice router would do a better job. You can still find dialup routers out there if you wish.
Ditch NetBEUI - you don't need it.
If you are using Outlook in NON Exchange environment, the best way to make sure that both of your computers have the same email is to tick the box in Outlook options that tells it to leave a copy of the message on the server. Every so often, however, you will need to "untick" it to clear your messages off the server (just on one computer).
What this does is allows you to connect and download messages on both machines. Outlook will usually not duplicate messages that it has previously received on the same machine, so, viola, same messages on both machines. What I would do is clear your messages when the laptop is at home and after you have initiated a "check messages" from both machines (they would be identical).
Hope this helps.
ErnestM
Ditch NetBEUI - you don't need it.
If you are using Outlook in NON Exchange environment, the best way to make sure that both of your computers have the same email is to tick the box in Outlook options that tells it to leave a copy of the message on the server. Every so often, however, you will need to "untick" it to clear your messages off the server (just on one computer).
What this does is allows you to connect and download messages on both machines. Outlook will usually not duplicate messages that it has previously received on the same machine, so, viola, same messages on both machines. What I would do is clear your messages when the laptop is at home and after you have initiated a "check messages" from both machines (they would be identical).
Hope this helps.
ErnestM
ErnestM said:Thanks. I have tried setting the local network to allow the IP addresses to be set by the computers 9i.e. not fixed IP), but this didn't help either. When I did this, the lappie always gave me a message saying that "The network connection has limied or no connectivity. You may not be able to ... (and then a list of various things)" whenever the local network connected. It didn't hamper the operation of the network though. I'll do a google search and see what I can learn about DNS and gateways. Thanks for the advice. I presume that a "Router" allows something else to take place - more like a proper network, with a hub, therefore the connection isn't shared through one machine, it is shared across the network in a different kind of way. Or is this an incorrect understanding?
ICS is problematic when using static IP's unless you know exactly how to set up DNS, gateways, etc. Setup ICS on the desktop to parcel out IP's (in it's limited DHCP sort of way). Also ICS is best used in a broadband environment - of course, then again, a nice router would do a better job. You can still find dialup routers out there if you wish.
ErnestM said:Oh. Ah. Heigh ho. The how-to site I looked at specifically said I did. But I don't doubt you. Would having this set have prevented it from working?
Ditch NetBEUI - you don't need it.
ErnestM said:OK, I understand this. Bit crude but I can see that it would work. From what you say, it sounds like using Exchange would be the bells-and-whistles way of doing it. Is this difficult? Worth looking into? I'll add it to my list of things to google ...
If you are using Outlook in NON Exchange environment, the best way to make sure that both of your computers have the same email is to tick the box in Outlook options that tells it to leave a copy of the message on the server. Every so often, however, you will need to "untick" it to clear your messages off the server (just on one computer).
What this does is allows you to connect and download messages on both machines. Outlook will usually not duplicate messages that it has previously received on the same machine, so, viola, same messages on both machines. What I would do is clear your messages when the laptop is at home and after you have initiated a "check messages" from both machines (they would be identical).
ErnestM said:
Hope this helps.
ErnestM
It certainly did, very many thanks. You wouldn't believe that I have a degree in Computer Science, would you!
Oli.
The Netbios Extended User Interface (NetBEUI) protocal used to be the standard Microsoft networking protocal (back in the days of Windows 3.1 and when high button shoes where in style). It is, basically, a "broadcast" protocal and not routeable. Around the time of NT 4.0 MS made the big switch to Transmission Control Protocal/Internet Protocal (TCP/IP) which is routeable.
Basically, I take the plumbers view of setting up networking. The more protocals installed, the easier it is to stop up the drain. If you only need IP, only install IP.
===
Exchange - is Microsoft's Communications Server application. You would need to be using it via a Windows Server PC. The good thing about it, for you, would be that your emails would remain on the server but would "synchronize" with Outlook in each of your computers when you connected to it. Excellent stuff.
===
No formal computer training for myself, I've just read lots of books and trial and error. Wrote my first "Basic" program on a TI-99 when I was 17 and started messing around with Unix based systems when I was 20 (OK - It was actually SCO XENIX). Built my first system from scratch at 22.
Cheers
ErnestM
Basically, I take the plumbers view of setting up networking. The more protocals installed, the easier it is to stop up the drain. If you only need IP, only install IP.
===
Exchange - is Microsoft's Communications Server application. You would need to be using it via a Windows Server PC. The good thing about it, for you, would be that your emails would remain on the server but would "synchronize" with Outlook in each of your computers when you connected to it. Excellent stuff.
===
No formal computer training for myself, I've just read lots of books and trial and error. Wrote my first "Basic" program on a TI-99 when I was 17 and started messing around with Unix based systems when I was 20 (OK - It was actually SCO XENIX). Built my first system from scratch at 22.
Cheers
ErnestM
ErnestM said:
The Netbios Extended User Interface (NetBEUI) protocal used to be the standard Microsoft networking protocal (back in the days of Windows 3.1 and when high button shoes where in style). It is, basically, a "broadcast" protocal and not routeable. Around the time of NT 4.0 MS made the big switch to Transmission Control Protocal/Internet Protocal (TCP/IP) which is routeable.
So NetBEUI (apologies about mis-spelling earlier) was superceded by TCPIP? OK, thanks.
ErnestM said:
Exchange - is Microsoft's Communications Server application. You would need to be using it via a Windows Server PC. The good thing about it, for you, would be that your emails would remain on the server but would "synchronize" with Outlook in each of your computers when you connected to it. Excellent stuff.
Sounds like I should be going this way when and if I get more gung-ho in experimenting, and have more time on my hands. How hard is it to set up? And what it is to have a "Windows Server PC"?
ErnestM said:
No formal computer training for myself, I've just read lots of books and trial and error.
Bugger. Another DIY'er to make the pro's look stupid! My degree taught me lots about things that were very interesting at the time, but are pretty useless now. (I can design you a lovely interface for a complex bit of software, and explain low-level computer architecture, if you want ...!) Having said that, I don't work in an IT field now, so it's not as if useful skills have gone to waste.
On the ICS topic - I have discovered that my machines WILL share a connection (and this is being written on the laptop, connected to PH via the desktop) ONLY if a certain turn-on sequence is followed. If I plug the network cable into both machines, and turn them on, log in, and connect to the ISP on the desktop, I can share the connection on the laptop. I can disconnect from the ISP and then re-connect, and it is still hunky-dory. However, if I disconnect the LAN then reconnect it (or shut down then re-boot the lappie) then I cannot again share the internet connection, until I have shut down and rebooted the desktop. Any ideas?
Thanks again for your help. It's appreciated. (Although it is only temporary - I will probably be posting like mad on here in about 3 months time, when I buy BB and a router and try to go wireless. Lovely dream, eh?)
to you too. I owe you one. Oli.
>> Edited by zcacogp on Sunday 6th March 13:42
For home use, if you decide to set up a Windows Server system (Windows Server 2003), I would wait for broadband and then give it a whirl. It is not cheap. Especially if you factor in the cost of Exchange Server (Exchange Server 2003) on the top of the basic WS2003 and then you have to think about hardware.
You may be better off with the "leave the message" option for email.
That being said, the addition of a WS2003 to any LAN has benefits; centralized security, VPN, webserver, use RADIUS for wireless access. It acts as a really good traffic cop for your local net if configured properly.
ErnestM
You may be better off with the "leave the message" option for email.
That being said, the addition of a WS2003 to any LAN has benefits; centralized security, VPN, webserver, use RADIUS for wireless access. It acts as a really good traffic cop for your local net if configured properly.
ErnestM
My advice, for what it's worth, is ignore Exchange for home use. It is very expensive (another machine, plus 2003 server license, plus Exchange license) and a pig to administer - especially if it breaks.
Definately go with the switching the way Outlook downloads messages. Or, if your ISP allows it, use your ISP's webmail connection for when you are away from home. This allows you to connect to your inbox directly at the ISP to read/reply to messages but doesn't download anything to your PC.
Definately go with the switching the way Outlook downloads messages. Or, if your ISP allows it, use your ISP's webmail connection for when you are away from home. This allows you to connect to your inbox directly at the ISP to read/reply to messages but doesn't download anything to your PC.
Hmmm, plusses and minuses of Exchange Server. Sounds like something I may just avoid - the picture being painted is something that is genuinely excellent, but expensive and a pain to set up. If I can achieve almost the same end result with the leaving-messages-on-the-server option then I'll go for that one. (Plus, I understand how it works!)
Thanks again for your help, chaps.
Oli.
Thanks again for your help, chaps.
Oli.
You could look for an email provider which supports imap4. This is similar to pop3 but the server stores all the messages and you can manipulate them on the server. I have this on my laptop and desktop. When I delete an email from one, it deleted from the server and then the other will "see" it has gone. It is similar to the way Exchange works as you keep the messages on the server and can move them between folders, delete them and send new emails which will appear in the imap sent items folder. The downside is that you cannot sync contacts or tasks AFAIK.
Wait until you get Broadband then get yourself a wireless Router (highly recommend NETGEAR 54Mbps wireless ADSL firewall router DG834G) and plug your base unit into it. Then get a Card for the laptop and bobs your uncle.
The router is a doddle to set up, not more faffing with dial up connection, always on, firewalled, secure connection its got the lot.
If you want to save a bob or two, get the 802.11b version of the Netgear. Its a bit slower but unless you move really big files around you wont be able to tell the difference, although I think the 802.11g version has a better aerial range.
So when you've got that figured out, and it really is simple, heres something to torment you - look up SKYPE !!
The router is a doddle to set up, not more faffing with dial up connection, always on, firewalled, secure connection its got the lot.
If you want to save a bob or two, get the 802.11b version of the Netgear. Its a bit slower but unless you move really big files around you wont be able to tell the difference, although I think the 802.11g version has a better aerial range.
So when you've got that figured out, and it really is simple, heres something to torment you - look up SKYPE !!
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