Chromebooks - I really want to like them
Discussion
Hi all,
Thought I would post my thoughts after living with a Chromebook for 6+ months.
A bit of background - traditionally a Windows user using GMail for email, Android phones and tablets. Work in a lot of schools where I don't often have access to wifi and need to create and edit reasonably complex Word docs (pupil records). Wanted a decent screen/convertible form factor to display sheet music on music stands.
My Android tab/bluetooth keyboard combo was getting long in the tooth and wasn't cutting it. Looked at various solutions - iPad Pro (
prices for "the one you want" with a decent amount of storage), new Android tab (not enough flexibility), MS Surface Pro (again, a lot of money for "the one you want" and mixed reports on whether it would be an expensive white elephant).
I kept coming back to Chromebooks - good form factor, convertible, lightweight, cheap, good battery life, eschews the "unnecessaries" that I didn't need in a mobile device - but would it work being "cloud based"? How usable would ChromeOS be for me?
Well I took the plunge - Asus C302C. I struggled at first to get it to do what I wanted but persevered. After a lot of grief I have managed to get it to fulfil my needs but has required a lot of bodgery and is rather unsatisfying.
However - I can see how it would be perfect for some.
What's good? All the stuff above, responsive, quick to boot, rarely crashes, browsing is brilliant, watching movies, listening to music, Android compatibility, small scale productivity.
What's not. Well, I failed to appreciate just how useless they are when they don't have wifi reception. On Windows I can still see and access my Google Drive files even when offline as they are cached. On the Chromebook they are not. You can request that individual files (not folders) are cached (up to 100) but it is laborious, and as a result I end up tethering it to my phone more often than not.
Word compatibility - there are various Word-y sort of apps but most have let me down with proper compatibility on complex documents. I don't own Office 365 and the free version isn't good enough - I think the issue I had with it was that it would only work with OneDrive, not Google Drive, and the ChromeOS OneDrive extension keeps crashing. Eventually settled on the least awful option which was using the Google Docs with a Word compatibility extension. Still not great, cut and paste doesn't work with multiple lines, for example.
Filesystems - the built in filer will allow you to access the SD card and Google Drive. There is an extension for OneDrive that is lousy and keeps hanging. Of the internal storage it will only allow you to access the "Downloads" directory, not root directory or other areas. Downloads folder is not "safe" storage as the OS will automatically clear out older files.
Android compatibility - a lot of apps work pretty well in full screen mode although can be clunky as obviously that's not how they're designed to run. The biggest issue for me, however, is that they won't access the filesystem properly - you can only see the root directory in most of them, not the SD card or cloud filesystem
Lack of a "proper" email app - I can't find anything native to Chrome that will allow me to have multiple email accounts - I use GMail for my personal mail, but I have 4 exchange accounts that I used Outlook to access on Android. GMail is fine in a Chrome window, but exchange seems to be such that it won't play nicely with more than one account open at any one time. Plus I don't want multiple windows open for mail. There is supposedly an Outlook ChromeOS app but all it does is open the web page. I have been using the Android version of Outlook, but this has the same issue with filing systems - try to attach a file and it will only look in the root filesystem. The problem with this is that you can't put files there with the ChromeOS filer as it won't access the root filer!! I ended up buying and installing a 3rd party filer so that I can move files from the SDcard or Google Drive to a temp directory in the root of the Chromebook!
It's very frustrating - with a decent email client, better filesystem handling & offline access, and OneDrive integration it could be a really good productivity tool. I also have a new issue with the latest versions that seem to translate use of the enter key in Android apps to similar to Tab (I am not alone according to google),
If anybody knows of a good native ChromeOS mail client I would be very grateful!
Thought I would post my thoughts after living with a Chromebook for 6+ months.
A bit of background - traditionally a Windows user using GMail for email, Android phones and tablets. Work in a lot of schools where I don't often have access to wifi and need to create and edit reasonably complex Word docs (pupil records). Wanted a decent screen/convertible form factor to display sheet music on music stands.
My Android tab/bluetooth keyboard combo was getting long in the tooth and wasn't cutting it. Looked at various solutions - iPad Pro (
prices for "the one you want" with a decent amount of storage), new Android tab (not enough flexibility), MS Surface Pro (again, a lot of money for "the one you want" and mixed reports on whether it would be an expensive white elephant).I kept coming back to Chromebooks - good form factor, convertible, lightweight, cheap, good battery life, eschews the "unnecessaries" that I didn't need in a mobile device - but would it work being "cloud based"? How usable would ChromeOS be for me?
Well I took the plunge - Asus C302C. I struggled at first to get it to do what I wanted but persevered. After a lot of grief I have managed to get it to fulfil my needs but has required a lot of bodgery and is rather unsatisfying.
However - I can see how it would be perfect for some.
What's good? All the stuff above, responsive, quick to boot, rarely crashes, browsing is brilliant, watching movies, listening to music, Android compatibility, small scale productivity.
What's not. Well, I failed to appreciate just how useless they are when they don't have wifi reception. On Windows I can still see and access my Google Drive files even when offline as they are cached. On the Chromebook they are not. You can request that individual files (not folders) are cached (up to 100) but it is laborious, and as a result I end up tethering it to my phone more often than not.
Word compatibility - there are various Word-y sort of apps but most have let me down with proper compatibility on complex documents. I don't own Office 365 and the free version isn't good enough - I think the issue I had with it was that it would only work with OneDrive, not Google Drive, and the ChromeOS OneDrive extension keeps crashing. Eventually settled on the least awful option which was using the Google Docs with a Word compatibility extension. Still not great, cut and paste doesn't work with multiple lines, for example.
Filesystems - the built in filer will allow you to access the SD card and Google Drive. There is an extension for OneDrive that is lousy and keeps hanging. Of the internal storage it will only allow you to access the "Downloads" directory, not root directory or other areas. Downloads folder is not "safe" storage as the OS will automatically clear out older files.
Android compatibility - a lot of apps work pretty well in full screen mode although can be clunky as obviously that's not how they're designed to run. The biggest issue for me, however, is that they won't access the filesystem properly - you can only see the root directory in most of them, not the SD card or cloud filesystem
Lack of a "proper" email app - I can't find anything native to Chrome that will allow me to have multiple email accounts - I use GMail for my personal mail, but I have 4 exchange accounts that I used Outlook to access on Android. GMail is fine in a Chrome window, but exchange seems to be such that it won't play nicely with more than one account open at any one time. Plus I don't want multiple windows open for mail. There is supposedly an Outlook ChromeOS app but all it does is open the web page. I have been using the Android version of Outlook, but this has the same issue with filing systems - try to attach a file and it will only look in the root filesystem. The problem with this is that you can't put files there with the ChromeOS filer as it won't access the root filer!! I ended up buying and installing a 3rd party filer so that I can move files from the SDcard or Google Drive to a temp directory in the root of the Chromebook!
It's very frustrating - with a decent email client, better filesystem handling & offline access, and OneDrive integration it could be a really good productivity tool. I also have a new issue with the latest versions that seem to translate use of the enter key in Android apps to similar to Tab (I am not alone according to google),
If anybody knows of a good native ChromeOS mail client I would be very grateful!
Edited by NiceCupOfTea on Monday 9th September 20:03
NiceCupOfTea said:
Well, I failed to appreciate just how useless they are when they don't have wifi reception. On Windows I can still see and access my Google Drive files even when offline as they are cached. On the Chromebook they are not. You can request that individual files (not folders) are cached (up to 100) but it is laborious, and as a result I end up tethering it to my phone more often than not.
- You can very much sync entire folders for offline use, and it's dead simple,see below;
NiceCupOfTea said:
Word compatibility -
- Will always be an issue in my opinion. They're fine for light and occasional MS Office use, but if you're editing using MS Office day-in-day-out you're still better in a MS environment in my view. I'm not, so it's a non-issue for me thankfully.
NiceCupOfTea said:
Filesystems - the built in filer will allow you to access the SD card and Google Drive. There is an extension for OneDrive that is lousy and keeps hanging. Of the internal storage it will only allow you to access the "Downloads" directory, not root directory or other areas. Downloads folder is not "safe" storage as the OS will automatically clear out older files.
- An end-user shouldn't need access to the root directory, that is the point.
- If you want local storage bang in an SD card and leave it in the machine permanently.
- Make your frequently used folders available offline, as above.
- It won't automatically clear out older files. Before it gets near to this you'll receive a popup warning that local storage is nearly full, and prior to that your machine will have slowed to a crawl due to not being able to cache stuff locally in a sufficient manner. So you'll know well in advance. But if you're using an SD card or similar that will never become an issue at any point.
NiceCupOfTea said:
Android compatibility - a lot of apps work pretty well in full screen mode although can be clunky as obviously that's not how they're designed to run. The biggest issue for me, however, is that they won't access the filesystem properly - you can only see the root directory in most of them, not the SD card or cloud filesystem
- Yes, depending on your use case I can see how this could be an issue for some, but not for most. The only android app I use can access certain cloud folders with my permission, and I've a connection anytime I'm using that app.
NiceCupOfTea said:
Lack of a "proper" email app -
If anybody knows of a good native ChromeOS mail client I would be very grateful!
It's unfortunate that MS have issues with multiple mail accounts. Multiple Google mail accounts all work side-by-side seamlessly. I've seven G accounts 'side-by-side'. But it's hard to blame anybody other than MS if their accounts don't work well within their software clients (Outlook).If anybody knows of a good native ChromeOS mail client I would be very grateful!
I don't think the C302 ever got full Linux support, did it? If it did you could install any good mail client for Linux.
This is how I look at things; if my IT solution slows me down, or causes me to pause for a second during the day then something needs to change, or I've got the wrong solution in play.
We've been here before on this I feel. If you don't want to sell the C302 and switch to another device, then try switching over or dual-booting with Gallium OS. https://wiki.galliumos.org/Hardware_Compatibility
A full-blooded email client on Gallium will solve your MS mail issues, but you're still going to have the same difficulties with Word editing!
(It's another bodge, but did you try MS Word using Crossover? https://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover-chr... )
We've 4 Chromebooks in the house, and they are our total computing solution. Both of us use them for work and personal use. I've not used Windows full time in approx. 7 years, except for a brief 12 month stint a couple of years ago when working for one company. My own Linux and Windows 10 laptop hasn't seen full-time use in over 4 years, and has sat in a cupboard 4000 miles away for the last couple of years.
I've no issue recommending Chrome OS to people if I know it'll suit their use case, but wouldn't dream of it for some others e.g. those heavily invested in the MS Office ecosystem.
Edited by Corso Marche on Tuesday 10th September 05:06
office 365 home or personal edition is actually pretty competitively priced. £80 a year for 6 devices, each getting a 1tb onedrive is pretty good imo.
I work for a ms partner and get a discount off that, so pay about £55 a year - which is no brainier territory.
I know everyone likes to hate microsoft, but why mess about getting something that is compatible with office when you can have the real thing for so little.
Unlike the old days, it works on windows,mac, android.
I work for a ms partner and get a discount off that, so pay about £55 a year - which is no brainier territory.
I know everyone likes to hate microsoft, but why mess about getting something that is compatible with office when you can have the real thing for so little.
Unlike the old days, it works on windows,mac, android.
Hi eliot, I think that's part of the issue in the opening post.
You can use the MS Office apps on other platforms, but they're limited, don't work correctly all the time, and have compatibility issues with files created in Windows version of Office.
The original poster had issues handling Word files in Word for android. And with Word Online.
He had issues with OneDrive and accessing his files.
He had issues with Outlook and accessing multiple MS mail accounts.
I've seen first hand how MS have improved their offerings on other platforms in recent years, but unless they're very simple and uncomplicated files then MS apps are still best seen as companion apps to their Windows based applications.
The irony is because the MS apps can only handle simple files that they don't work much better than competing apps or services from other companies who just offer 'compatibility' to certain extents.
I'm sure their offerings on other platforms will continue to improve, but they ain't there yet IMHO.
You can use the MS Office apps on other platforms, but they're limited, don't work correctly all the time, and have compatibility issues with files created in Windows version of Office.
The original poster had issues handling Word files in Word for android. And with Word Online.
He had issues with OneDrive and accessing his files.
He had issues with Outlook and accessing multiple MS mail accounts.
I've seen first hand how MS have improved their offerings on other platforms in recent years, but unless they're very simple and uncomplicated files then MS apps are still best seen as companion apps to their Windows based applications.
The irony is because the MS apps can only handle simple files that they don't work much better than competing apps or services from other companies who just offer 'compatibility' to certain extents.
I'm sure their offerings on other platforms will continue to improve, but they ain't there yet IMHO.
Corso Marche said:
Hi eliot, I think that's part of the issue in the opening post.
You can use the MS Office apps on other platforms, but they're limited, don't work correctly all the time, and have compatibility issues with files created in Windows version of Office.
The original poster had issues handling Word files in Word for android. And with Word Online.
He had issues with OneDrive and accessing his files.
He had issues with Outlook and accessing multiple MS mail accounts.
I've seen first hand how MS have improved their offerings on other platforms in recent years, but unless they're very simple and uncomplicated files then MS apps are still best seen as companion apps to their Windows based applications.
The irony is because the MS apps can only handle simple files that they don't work much better than competing apps or services from other companies who just offer 'compatibility' to certain extents.
I'm sure their offerings on other platforms will continue to improve, but they ain't there yet IMHO.
Fair enough - the only thing i use cross-platform is one-note. I'll try opening some word /excel docs on my samsung(android) tablet that has office on it.You can use the MS Office apps on other platforms, but they're limited, don't work correctly all the time, and have compatibility issues with files created in Windows version of Office.
The original poster had issues handling Word files in Word for android. And with Word Online.
He had issues with OneDrive and accessing his files.
He had issues with Outlook and accessing multiple MS mail accounts.
I've seen first hand how MS have improved their offerings on other platforms in recent years, but unless they're very simple and uncomplicated files then MS apps are still best seen as companion apps to their Windows based applications.
The irony is because the MS apps can only handle simple files that they don't work much better than competing apps or services from other companies who just offer 'compatibility' to certain extents.
I'm sure their offerings on other platforms will continue to improve, but they ain't there yet IMHO.
Thanks chaps.
I think CorseMarche is bang on the money with most of that. Offline Folders must be a new thing because it definitely wasn't possible when I first got it. Unfortunately Crostini isn't supported on the C302 for some reason so no Linux unless I'm dual booting, and I don't think I have the strength for that.
I have tried a couple of other Android email clinets (AquaMail & BlueMail) which integrate with the filesystem better, but they are ugly and non-intuitive IMHO. Also I have had some problems with them not being synchronised properly, hopefully teething issues with the apps and not problems themselves, but I'm not comfortable trusting either with mission critical emails at the moment! Outlook for Android looks much easier and is more intuitive, but has totally rubbish integration with the filesystem.
Here's an exam of an issue I am having with Word files today.
I have some records with a template (tables & boxes, etc.) that I update weekly. I need to extend the template which is in a separate file. In Word on Windows I would load both documents, ctrl-A, ctrl-C in the template doc, select record doc, find the end, ctrl-V, save.
Tried that in the Google Docs Word extension that I normally use, it wouldn't do anything at all. Later on, it only seemed to copy the text and lost all the formatting/tables.
Tried it in the Chrome Word extension - that worked but there is a whole load of hassle copying the file to OneDrive and saving it back there before copying it off. I've got loads to do and it'll take forever.
Tried Polaris Office but that will seemingly only let you load one document at a time and doesn't seem to cache the clipboard between them!
I even tried my Windows Laptop (as the files are on Google Drive) but they are Word 2007 and I am using Word 2003. I am sure I had an extension that made it compatible but it doesn't work and if you google it all the links are dead!!
I used to be able to do this seamlessly on my old Android tablet.
It's crazy, I've spent about 90 minutes of my life that I will never getting back trying to make it work, and as far as I am concerned this is the story of the Chromebook for me. Loads of things /should/ be simple and /should/ work but for some reason they just aren't or are ridiculously complicated - for no good reason, just bugs or incompatibilities or tie-ins (Google / MS I'm looking at you!).
Did I mention the bug that means the enter key doesn't work properly in Android apps? It's Mickey Mouse stuff, it was introduced in an OS update last month but it's not been fixed (or even acknowledged by google) yet...
I'm about ready to admit defeat and buy a new windows laptop to be honest. Bitterly disappointed.
I think CorseMarche is bang on the money with most of that. Offline Folders must be a new thing because it definitely wasn't possible when I first got it. Unfortunately Crostini isn't supported on the C302 for some reason so no Linux unless I'm dual booting, and I don't think I have the strength for that.
I have tried a couple of other Android email clinets (AquaMail & BlueMail) which integrate with the filesystem better, but they are ugly and non-intuitive IMHO. Also I have had some problems with them not being synchronised properly, hopefully teething issues with the apps and not problems themselves, but I'm not comfortable trusting either with mission critical emails at the moment! Outlook for Android looks much easier and is more intuitive, but has totally rubbish integration with the filesystem.
Here's an exam of an issue I am having with Word files today.
I have some records with a template (tables & boxes, etc.) that I update weekly. I need to extend the template which is in a separate file. In Word on Windows I would load both documents, ctrl-A, ctrl-C in the template doc, select record doc, find the end, ctrl-V, save.
Tried that in the Google Docs Word extension that I normally use, it wouldn't do anything at all. Later on, it only seemed to copy the text and lost all the formatting/tables.
Tried it in the Chrome Word extension - that worked but there is a whole load of hassle copying the file to OneDrive and saving it back there before copying it off. I've got loads to do and it'll take forever.
Tried Polaris Office but that will seemingly only let you load one document at a time and doesn't seem to cache the clipboard between them!
I even tried my Windows Laptop (as the files are on Google Drive) but they are Word 2007 and I am using Word 2003. I am sure I had an extension that made it compatible but it doesn't work and if you google it all the links are dead!!
I used to be able to do this seamlessly on my old Android tablet.
It's crazy, I've spent about 90 minutes of my life that I will never getting back trying to make it work, and as far as I am concerned this is the story of the Chromebook for me. Loads of things /should/ be simple and /should/ work but for some reason they just aren't or are ridiculously complicated - for no good reason, just bugs or incompatibilities or tie-ins (Google / MS I'm looking at you!).
Did I mention the bug that means the enter key doesn't work properly in Android apps? It's Mickey Mouse stuff, it was introduced in an OS update last month but it's not been fixed (or even acknowledged by google) yet...
I'm about ready to admit defeat and buy a new windows laptop to be honest. Bitterly disappointed.
I've slightly skimmed this but I do get the impression that you're using a chromebook to mostly operate microsoft software i.e. you're possibly going against the grain a bit!
If for example you mostly used a single gmail acct and were happy with the gmail webmail (which seems to be getting a lot better) and you also used google docs and drive instead of 365/onedrive then I suspect the overall experience would be a lot better.
If you're heavily into microsoft then nothing will really beat a windows laptop, heavily into Apple then get a mac. For people that are neither then a Chromebook can be a liberating experience. I like them.
If for example you mostly used a single gmail acct and were happy with the gmail webmail (which seems to be getting a lot better) and you also used google docs and drive instead of 365/onedrive then I suspect the overall experience would be a lot better.
If you're heavily into microsoft then nothing will really beat a windows laptop, heavily into Apple then get a mac. For people that are neither then a Chromebook can be a liberating experience. I like them.
NiceCupOfTea said:
Offline Folders must be a new thing because it definitely wasn't possible when I first got it.
Chrome OS changes fast, there are updates every 6 weeks (sometimes quicker), and improvements keep rolling on in. Trouble is they've done little in the past to notify users of new features etc. They do have a new pop-up notification they're rolling out after an update which users can click on and it'll show the changes and new features, but I don't think they've fully launched it as an info service yet. https://www.google.com/chromebook/whatsnew/embedde...When developing and adding features to an OS as quickly as they do this is something they should have nailed down a long time ago.
eliot said:
office 365 home or personal edition is actually pretty competitively priced. £80 a year for 6 devices, each getting a 1tb onedrive is pretty good imo.
I work for a ms partner and get a discount off that, so pay about £55 a year - which is no brainier territory.
I know everyone likes to hate microsoft, but why mess about getting something that is compatible with office when you can have the real thing for so little.
Unlike the old days, it works on windows,mac, android.
A bit off topic but I totally agree. I didn't know it was for 6 devices still thought it was 5. If you can pick up one of the (genuine !) 1 year boxes from say Tesco/ Argos whatever outlet they are a way of reducing the yearly cost.I work for a ms partner and get a discount off that, so pay about £55 a year - which is no brainier territory.
I know everyone likes to hate microsoft, but why mess about getting something that is compatible with office when you can have the real thing for so little.
Unlike the old days, it works on windows,mac, android.
One other thing it updates as a new version of Office comes along
Linux support for chromebooks with intel chips has been suspiciously lacking which is the c302 doesn't support it yet but there have been hints that they've been actively working on support for chromebooks with the broadwell and skylake chipsets, so it likely it will be getting support before it comes out of beta.
Not intel chips per se, only the Broadwell and Skylake chips. There's rumours of Broadwell devices maybe getting it, but not sure on where the Skylake devices sit currently (like the C302).
7th and 8th gen Intel chips all offer Linux out-of-the-box to the best of my knowledge i.e. i3/i5/i7, Kaby Lake Core M*, Celeron, and Pentium.
7th and 8th gen Intel chips all offer Linux out-of-the-box to the best of my knowledge i.e. i3/i5/i7, Kaby Lake Core M*, Celeron, and Pentium.
Edited by Corso Marche on Friday 13th September 08:15
I have a laptop running Android rather than ChromeOS. I've still not really managed to work out why you would want ChromeOS over Android? I've got my laptop setup so that it's exactly the same as my phone, same launcher, same apps, same layout. It's great.
I don't like the argument that you should go for a Windows Laptop if you want to use Word etc, for the same size and weight of device you're what doubling the cost and halving the battery life? Doesn't seem like a great compromise just for Word and the like!
I don't like the argument that you should go for a Windows Laptop if you want to use Word etc, for the same size and weight of device you're what doubling the cost and halving the battery life? Doesn't seem like a great compromise just for Word and the like!
paulrockliffe said:
I don't like the argument that you should go for a Windows Laptop if you want to use Word etc, for the same size and weight of device you're what doubling the cost and halving the battery life? Doesn't seem like a great compromise just for Word and the like!
I share your sentiments, and in an ideal world it wouldn't matter what platform or OS you ran MS Office on. But the reality is that when it comes to complex files, be it Word, Excel, Powerpoint, or 'whatever' there are still issues using them on other platforms. Simple files are fine, no problem for sure. But large more complicated files like you find in enterprises just don't work. I've experienced it first-hand, and so has the OP.What flavour of android are you running on a laptop? Is it Phoenix?
I tried Remix OS circa 3 years ago, but ended up back on Chrome OS. It all depends on what your workflow is I guess, and what you need to do. Have to say I felt Remix OS sluggish at times, even though at the time it was allegedly the best android-86 flavour. The UI was definitely the best of the android-86 platforms. Jide dropped it though. Chrome OS is definitely faster on like-for-like hardware, and well security is a big deal. Any open source flavours of android-86 are definitely less secure, so it all depends on what the machine is used for and what level of security is acceptable.
For me, a Pixelbook is the best of both worlds. I use web apps and services, Chrome OS apps, android apps, and two desktop Linux apps. It gives me that versatility with speed and security.
techiedave said:
eliot said:
office 365 home or personal edition is actually pretty competitively priced. £80 a year for 6 devices, each getting a 1tb onedrive is pretty good imo.
I work for a ms partner and get a discount off that, so pay about £55 a year - which is no brainier territory.
I know everyone likes to hate microsoft, but why mess about getting something that is compatible with office when you can have the real thing for so little.
Unlike the old days, it works on windows,mac, android.
A bit off topic but I totally agree. I didn't know it was for 6 devices still thought it was 5. If you can pick up one of the (genuine !) 1 year boxes from say Tesco/ Argos whatever outlet they are a way of reducing the yearly cost.I work for a ms partner and get a discount off that, so pay about £55 a year - which is no brainier territory.
I know everyone likes to hate microsoft, but why mess about getting something that is compatible with office when you can have the real thing for so little.
Unlike the old days, it works on windows,mac, android.
One other thing it updates as a new version of Office comes along
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