Any PMR/Ham radio experts?

[300bhp/ton]

So I've been looking at alternatives to CB's. And it seems in the UK the only real option is PMR446 (US guys get FRS/GMRS which we don't).

Anyhow PMR446 is has some restrictions, such a 500mW (0.5W) transmit power.

Cheap radios like the Baofeng UV-5R can be programmed to the PMR446 frequencies (which seems a common thing if you hit Google/YouTube).

However the Baofeng runs at 1W of transmitting power. I'm not here to debate the legalities of such a radio. What I'd like to know is, what 'real world' or practical difference would 1W vs 500mW really have? I can't seem to find an answer to this via Google.

[Tyre Smoke]

I'm no use at all.

But I'm curious. Do many people still use CB?

And for HAM radio, don't you need a licence?

[Dr Jekyll]

300bhp/ton said:

. What I'd like to know is, what 'real world' or practical difference would 1W vs 500mW really have? I can't seem to find an answer to this via Google.

Very little.

Are you looking for something to communicate over a few hundred yards or a few miles? And why are you interested in the 446 frequencies in particular?

[300bhp/ton]

Dr Jekyll said:

Very little.

Are you looking for something to communicate over a few hundred yards or a few miles? And why are you interested in the 446 frequencies in particular?

Looking for options when laning or otherwise out in the 4x4’s such as across the farm. Doesn’t need to be long distance really.

Have used CB’s for years. But they are somewhat limited with often poor audio quality and very limited range when laning. Plus big long ariels and sets are relatively expensive vs some other radios.

I keep hearing good things about PMR446. Midland offer a car style unit with a small mag mount Ariel. Just trying to explore options. I heard about the Boafeng from PistonHeads. £15-20 gets you a handset.

[300bhp/ton]

Tyre Smoke said:

I'm no use at all.

But I'm curious. Do many people still use CB?

And for HAM radio, don't you need a licence?

PMR446 is licence free. Other frequencies require a licence. Which while cheap is not really that practical to attain unless you are taking up amateur radio as a hobby.

[Dr Jekyll]

300bhp/ton said:

PMR446 is licence free. Other frequencies require a licence. Which while cheap is not really that practical to attain unless you are taking up amateur radio as a hobby.

The foundation licence is a piece of cake and allows up to 10 watts on a huge range of frequencies. Mine took a couple of Saturdays but if you are the slightest bit curious about the technicalities it's fun and interesting. I went straight onto the slightly harder intermediate licence (50 watts and even more frequencies) just out of interest, even though I have no intention of taking up the hobby.

[300bhp/ton]

Dr Jekyll said:

The foundation licence is a piece of cake and allows up to 10 watts on a huge range of frequencies. Mine took a couple of Saturdays but if you are the slightest bit curious about the technicalities it's fun and interesting. I went straight onto the slightly harder intermediate licence (50 watts and even more frequencies) just out of interest, even though I have no intention of taking up the hobby.

The challenge would be getting the other people who currently use CB’s to take the exam also. Basically it just isn’t going to happen. And there is sadly no point in only me having a licence as I wouldn’t be able to talk to the people I’m wanting to communicate with.

Really I’m just interested in the theory of what real world impact a handheld radio running at 1W would have over one running 0.5W on the PMR446 frequencies? I know it is a 100% increase in relative terms. But what impact does this really have?

[Dr Jekyll]

300bhp/ton said:

The challenge would be getting the other people who currently use CB’s to take the exam also. Basically it just isn’t going to happen. And there is sadly no point in only me having a licence as I wouldn’t be able to talk to the people I’m wanting to communicate with.

That's the trouble, even you had a licence I think it would be illegal to communicate with others that didn't.

300bhp/ton said:

Really I’m just interested in the theory of what real world impact a handheld radio running at 1W would have over one running 0.5W on the PMR446 frequencies? I know it is a 100% increase in relative terms. But what impact does this really have?

Maybe 50% more range if you're lucky. An external aerial vs one attached to the handset would probably double the range at least.

[Dan_The_Man]

Apparently with PMR446 Midland G7's, you can snip a wire inside which increases power to 3W high and 1W low which I believe is the export spec.


Also look on Ebay "MIDLAND G7 PRO EXPORT" which has the 3W as standard, possibly slightly illegal to use in the UK.

Edited by Dan_The_Man on Thursday 5th March 15:48

[Fishlegs]

The additional power is great for car to car stuff, but I wouldn't use it in congested areas. Regardless of legality, it's selfish. When out in the wilds camping etc, then just go for it. There will be nobody else using the channel anyway, there's no safety aspect, you're not blocking emergency frequencies or anything. It can be anti-social, and if everyone did it there would be chaos

But bumping the power up on occasion to actually make it useful, e.g. in car to car convoys where normal PMR radios suck, I can't see an issue with it personally.

[outnumbered]

I think you can pay OFCOM £75 and get a "UK Simple" license which covers up to 5W ? You can then program a Baofeng legally to use the associated frequencies. Or get a more powerful handset if req'd.

[LimSlip]

With an omnidirectional antenna you are at the mercy of the inverse square law i.e. doubling the distance reduces received power by a factor of 4. Doubling the transmitter power would gain you about 100*(SQRT(2)-1) ~ 40% more range, all else being equal.

As others have said antenna size and type can have a much more profound impact on range, though typically for a hand held radio people don't want long antennas.

[eliot]

Dr Jekyll said:

300bhp/ton said:

PMR446 is licence free. Other frequencies require a licence. Which while cheap is not really that practical to attain unless you are taking up amateur radio as a hobby.

The foundation licence is a piece of cake and allows up to 10 watts on a huge range of frequencies. Mine took a couple of Saturdays but if you are the slightest bit curious about the technicalities it's fun and interesting. I went straight onto the slightly harder intermediate licence (50 watts and even more frequencies) just out of interest, even though I have no intention of taking up the hobby.

Same here - did foundation and intermediate in 6 weeks and passed both on the same day - which is all quite recent after getting into Network Radios/Zello:

300 - have you looked at Zello? turns your Phone into an IP walkie talkie, granted you need data - but it's very good and the sound quality is amazing.
https://zello.com/
You can make your own radio channels, family, friends, road trips, meets etc.
You can get dedicated handsets such as these (generally known as network radios, but not to be confused with the network radios group of channels described below):
https://www.moonraker.eu/inrico-t320-4g-wifi-netwo...

If you are even loosely interested in Amateur radio, take a look at "Nettwork Radios" which are channels that use Zello, everyone is welcome licensed or non licenced - it generally follows HAM radio etiquette:
https://zello.com/networkradio


tldr; if you want to stick to radio, PMR is a good shout with a dodgy beofang - but like most radio it's all line of sight unless you get propagation (skip). Just make sure you are on the correct frequencies and stay away from the ham bands with it.

[300bhp/ton]

eliot said:

Same here - did foundation and intermediate in 6 weeks and passed both on the same day - which is all quite recent after getting into Network Radios/Zello:

300 - have you looked at Zello? turns your Phone into an IP walkie talkie, granted you need data - but it's very good and the sound quality is amazing.
https://zello.com/
You can make your own radio channels, family, friends, road trips, meets etc.
You can get dedicated handsets such as these (generally known as network radios, but not to be confused with the network radios group of channels described below):
https://www.moonraker.eu/inrico-t320-4g-wifi-netwo...

If you are even loosely interested in Amateur radio, take a look at "Nettwork Radios" which are channels that use Zello, everyone is welcome licensed or non licenced - it generally follows HAM radio etiquette:
https://zello.com/networkradio


tldr; if you want to stick to radio, PMR is a good shout with a dodgy beofang - but like most radio it's all line of sight unless you get propagation (skip). Just make sure you are on the correct frequencies and stay away from the ham bands with it.

Thanks for the info. Not heard of Zello, will have a look now.

[300bhp/ton]

Sadly looks like Zello needs internet


That’ll be a no go for laning. Often have no phone signal at all.

[sunbeam alpine]

The Baofeng UV-5R should be good for 5W output (ours are). Gives a couple of km range in open countryside, but a lot less in built-up areas.

What is frustrating that we can sometimes pick up baby monitors when we're several miles away from houses! (They are programmed to the legal PMR fequencies).

[Ziplobb]

Is anyone really checking what power a P M R is doing ? Who is going to prosecute you ? Round here the old bill can’t even Nick kids smoking weed outside of MaccyDs.
I have been on and off CB since 1979 and have a President Lincoln which gets fired up every now and then. I can honestly say in 40 years I have never heard of anyone getting ‘done’ for doing something naughty with a radio.

[300bhp/ton]

sunbeam alpine said:

The Baofeng UV-5R should be good for 5W output (ours are). Gives a couple of km range in open countryside, but a lot less in built-up areas.

What is frustrating that we can sometimes pick up baby monitors when we're several miles away from houses! (They are programmed to the legal PMR fequencies).

They have two output levels. 4w and 1W. It’s in the menu.

[OldGermanHeaps]

Depending how heavy your laning/dogging is, you might be better off with the uv9r plus, bigger battery, waterproof fully submersible and longer range.
Tested the waterproofing plenty out on my jetski, and you can program in the marine channels.

[300bhp/ton]

OldGermanHeaps said:

Depending how heavy your laning/dogging is, you might be better off with the uv9r plus, bigger battery, waterproof fully submersible and longer range.
Tested the waterproofing plenty out on my jetski, and you can program in the marine channels.

Clearly you have more extracurricular activities than I