Long houses, WiFi, Alexa and Sonos - Painful!
Discussion
I can't recall if I've asked a similar question before, but this is (gently) driving me up the wall now that I'm WFH.
Our London terraced house is long and narrow, and the internet comes in from the street (router in the front room). We have various Alexa and Sonos stuff dotted around the house, and for the most-part the router seems to do the job.
However, in the kitchen (at the back of the house, in an extension) we have a Sonos and an Alexa, and the frequency with which they either disappear or fail to recognise one another is infuriating.
To enable me to work from the back garden, I replaced a WiFi extender with a powerline kit. The extender wasn't without its issues (persistent dropping connection, occasional Sonos unavailability), but while the powerline does an admirable job of allowing me to take Zoom calls in the sunshine, it's playing merry hell with Sonos (and occasionally Alexa).
Depending on where I am in the house and which AP I'm connected to (the powerline and router have the same name/pwd), I can either see one, multiple or no Sonos devices - and there doesn't seem to be any consistency or logic.
I've tried resetting the router, and turning things back on in groups/stages - which works for a while, and then turns to somewhere between frustrating and useless.
Curiously, the Sonos software on my laptop (2019 MBP) seems much better at consistently finding devices than the apps on either my mobile (Android) or MrsC's iPhone.
I'm not completely unsavvy, and am able to follow technical guides, but I'm at a bit of a loss here. Is it possible to:
1. Buy some kind of network kit (I've heard the word "mesh" used?) that just removes all of this hassle?
2. Change my router/powerline settings (I read about WiFi "channels") so that this goes away?
Yours, in hopeful appreciation.
Our London terraced house is long and narrow, and the internet comes in from the street (router in the front room). We have various Alexa and Sonos stuff dotted around the house, and for the most-part the router seems to do the job.
However, in the kitchen (at the back of the house, in an extension) we have a Sonos and an Alexa, and the frequency with which they either disappear or fail to recognise one another is infuriating.
To enable me to work from the back garden, I replaced a WiFi extender with a powerline kit. The extender wasn't without its issues (persistent dropping connection, occasional Sonos unavailability), but while the powerline does an admirable job of allowing me to take Zoom calls in the sunshine, it's playing merry hell with Sonos (and occasionally Alexa).
Depending on where I am in the house and which AP I'm connected to (the powerline and router have the same name/pwd), I can either see one, multiple or no Sonos devices - and there doesn't seem to be any consistency or logic.
I've tried resetting the router, and turning things back on in groups/stages - which works for a while, and then turns to somewhere between frustrating and useless.
Curiously, the Sonos software on my laptop (2019 MBP) seems much better at consistently finding devices than the apps on either my mobile (Android) or MrsC's iPhone.
I'm not completely unsavvy, and am able to follow technical guides, but I'm at a bit of a loss here. Is it possible to:
1. Buy some kind of network kit (I've heard the word "mesh" used?) that just removes all of this hassle?
2. Change my router/powerline settings (I read about WiFi "channels") so that this goes away?
Yours, in hopeful appreciation.
Edited by C70R on Friday 22 May 12:15
surveyor said:
I went for the mesh route under similar frustrations.
Once I realised that I needed to let the mesh run everything and assign IP addresses, and removed anything connected directly to the router it's all been swimmingly easy since.
Thanks for the reply. Can you elaborate on the bolded part, please?Once I realised that I needed to let the mesh run everything and assign IP addresses, and removed anything connected directly to the router it's all been swimmingly easy since.
C70R said:
surveyor said:
I went for the mesh route under similar frustrations.
Once I realised that I needed to let the mesh run everything and assign IP addresses, and removed anything connected directly to the router it's all been swimmingly easy since.
Thanks for the reply. Can you elaborate on the bolded part, please?Once I realised that I needed to let the mesh run everything and assign IP addresses, and removed anything connected directly to the router it's all been swimmingly easy since.
C70R said:
I
Curiously, the Sonos software on my laptop (2019 MBP) seems much better at consistently finding devices than the apps on either my mobile (Android) or MrsC's iPhone.
The MBP has physically bigger radio aerials, more power budget, and you're not wrapping your hand around some of them when you hold it.Curiously, the Sonos software on my laptop (2019 MBP) seems much better at consistently finding devices than the apps on either my mobile (Android) or MrsC's iPhone.
Edited by C70R on Friday 22 May 12:15
surveyor said:
Turned off the wifi router. The only connection to the router is now the Mesh hub. I added a small switch to the mesh, which deals with all the wired connections. Hopefully and I think it works, the only IP address that the router assigns is to the mesh hub. This then assigns all other IP addresses and everything see's everything else.
Did the same using BT Whole Home mesh. Before we installed we could not stream to the TV, Now with a disk in the same room as the TV it's works perfectly.Careful with the approach of the router assigning the mesh an IP address and then mesh assigning IP addresses out to wireless devices. Done incorrectly you may put yourself in a double-NAT situation, which isn't a problem most of the time but can cause frustrations with stuff like gaming later on.
That said, mesh is a good recommendation here if you don't want to run physical cables around your house and put access points on. Certainly better then powerline or wifi extenders in my experience. Whichever way you implement the mesh (either letting the router still do the routing or having them in a more passive application) what you're going to get is better seamless roaming and the system being smarter at doing the right thing for your Sonos and Alexas and indeed everything else wireless. Turning off WiFi on your router is crucial to the best experience of mesh in my experience.
That said, mesh is a good recommendation here if you don't want to run physical cables around your house and put access points on. Certainly better then powerline or wifi extenders in my experience. Whichever way you implement the mesh (either letting the router still do the routing or having them in a more passive application) what you're going to get is better seamless roaming and the system being smarter at doing the right thing for your Sonos and Alexas and indeed everything else wireless. Turning off WiFi on your router is crucial to the best experience of mesh in my experience.
London is really, really hard for Wifi. You've got loads of channels around you, so your weak signal looks less attractive than your neighbours signal from over the wall. I've splattered our place in London with commercial grade APs to make it work - one on each floor and one pointing out into the garden. Importantly, they're the same network, with the same SSID and the APs do hand offs as you move between them. BTs router is disabled.
Decent APs will find quiet channels, but that takes time, and your devices may drop off momentarily - depending on how good your device is, that may be noticeable or not.
Decent APs will find quiet channels, but that takes time, and your devices may drop off momentarily - depending on how good your device is, that may be noticeable or not.
surveyor said:
C70R said:
surveyor said:
I went for the mesh route under similar frustrations.
Once I realised that I needed to let the mesh run everything and assign IP addresses, and removed anything connected directly to the router it's all been swimmingly easy since.
Thanks for the reply. Can you elaborate on the bolded part, please?Once I realised that I needed to let the mesh run everything and assign IP addresses, and removed anything connected directly to the router it's all been swimmingly easy since.
xeny said:
C70R said:
I
Curiously, the Sonos software on my laptop (2019 MBP) seems much better at consistently finding devices than the apps on either my mobile (Android) or MrsC's iPhone.
The MBP has physically bigger radio aerials, more power budget, and you're not wrapping your hand around some of them when you hold it.Curiously, the Sonos software on my laptop (2019 MBP) seems much better at consistently finding devices than the apps on either my mobile (Android) or MrsC's iPhone.
Edited by C70R on Friday 22 May 12:15
Even when both my MBP and phone are connected to and within 6ft of the same AP, they show different Sonos stuff as available.
I really don't rate the apps half as much as I do the kit itself.
Edited by C70R on Friday 22 May 13:18
BigTZ4M said:
Careful with the approach of the router assigning the mesh an IP address and then mesh assigning IP addresses out to wireless devices. Done incorrectly you may put yourself in a double-NAT situation, which isn't a problem most of the time but can cause frustrations with stuff like gaming later on.
That said, mesh is a good recommendation here if you don't want to run physical cables around your house and put access points on. Certainly better then powerline or wifi extenders in my experience. Whichever way you implement the mesh (either letting the router still do the routing or having them in a more passive application) what you're going to get is better seamless roaming and the system being smarter at doing the right thing for your Sonos and Alexas and indeed everything else wireless. Turning off WiFi on your router is crucial to the best experience of mesh in my experience.
That's exceptionally helpful. Thank you.That said, mesh is a good recommendation here if you don't want to run physical cables around your house and put access points on. Certainly better then powerline or wifi extenders in my experience. Whichever way you implement the mesh (either letting the router still do the routing or having them in a more passive application) what you're going to get is better seamless roaming and the system being smarter at doing the right thing for your Sonos and Alexas and indeed everything else wireless. Turning off WiFi on your router is crucial to the best experience of mesh in my experience.
C70R said:
I'm not sure that's it.
Even when both my MBP and phone are connected to and within 6ft of the same AP, they show different Sonos stuff as available.
I really don't rate the apps half as much as I do the kit itself.
Probably working on different frequencies, there's 2.4g and 5g and they're meant to switch between depending on signal strength but that doesn't always work seamlessly. Even when both my MBP and phone are connected to and within 6ft of the same AP, they show different Sonos stuff as available.
I really don't rate the apps half as much as I do the kit itself.
I actually don't think I have anything hardwired to my router right now, other than the powerline. So it sounds like a mesh setup is going to solve the issue.
Time to go do my research. Thank you all.
ETA - Looking at my options, I can see the Amazon eero which seems to get good reviews. However, the product image is a bit confusing. It seems like they are only sending me a single piece of hardware (houses up to 150sqm - thanks London) which plugs direct into my router. How can that work better than the router?
ETA2 - Including my garden in that floorspace estimate, it's significantly over that 150sqm. Perhaps I need the 3-piece kit?
Time to go do my research. Thank you all.
ETA - Looking at my options, I can see the Amazon eero which seems to get good reviews. However, the product image is a bit confusing. It seems like they are only sending me a single piece of hardware (houses up to 150sqm - thanks London) which plugs direct into my router. How can that work better than the router?
ETA2 - Including my garden in that floorspace estimate, it's significantly over that 150sqm. Perhaps I need the 3-piece kit?
Edited by C70R on Friday 22 May 13:40
If you have two WiFi devices broadcasting the same SSID these problems are pretty common, on the one side of the equation you have issues with your devices holding onto an AP that can no longer get signal to them, ignoring the much closer device. On the other side you have Sonos, Chromecast whatever devices on different APs (and sometimes different frequencies on each AP) that then do funny stuff when it comes to being seen across the other APs. No idea what your issue is, but I'd expect problems with your setup.
Mesh WiFi is doing two things differently, it's bouncing WiFi from one AP to the other to provide a greater range of signal where you can't run wires and it's allowing each AP to talk to the others and manage which one gives which it's connection. That should fix all of the issues above, though I would force them all onto the 2.4GHz channel as well just to cover that off.
Mesh WiFi is doing two things differently, it's bouncing WiFi from one AP to the other to provide a greater range of signal where you can't run wires and it's allowing each AP to talk to the others and manage which one gives which it's connection. That should fix all of the issues above, though I would force them all onto the 2.4GHz channel as well just to cover that off.
paulrockliffe said:
If you have two WiFi devices broadcasting the same SSID these problems are pretty common, on the one side of the equation you have issues with your devices holding onto an AP that can no longer get signal to them, ignoring the much closer device. On the other side you have Sonos, Chromecast whatever devices on different APs (and sometimes different frequencies on each AP) that then do funny stuff when it comes to being seen across the other APs. No idea what your issue is, but I'd expect problems with your setup.
Mesh WiFi is doing two things differently, it's bouncing WiFi from one AP to the other to provide a greater range of signal where you can't run wires and it's allowing each AP to talk to the others and manage which one gives which it's connection. That should fix all of the issues above, though I would force them all onto the 2.4GHz channel as well just to cover that off.
This probably explains my issue with Chromecast. It's always connected to the correct router, but only available intermittently on the Google Home app.Mesh WiFi is doing two things differently, it's bouncing WiFi from one AP to the other to provide a greater range of signal where you can't run wires and it's allowing each AP to talk to the others and manage which one gives which it's connection. That should fix all of the issues above, though I would force them all onto the 2.4GHz channel as well just to cover that off.
I remember when WiFi was easy...
OP I have just been through similar
My setup which may help you
Router in Modem Mode (i.e. kill the wifi from your provideer BT, Virgin etc)
Ethernet to Mesh Node/Pod
The mesh will make you create a new SSID (Wifi Network)
All wifi stuff connects to the new network, if you do want to hardwire anything the Node has a spare Ethernet port and you can connect a switch if you want
You then add the remaining Nodes around the house, just turn them on and they will bounce off each other and the main, boosting your new network all around the house
All the other nodes have ethernet as well so for my Musiccast stuff I have that wired in for a stronger (i think) connection
So you end up with 3 almost mini routers around the house, it really is excellent
I'd guess there are 3 main recommendations
Tenda MW3/6
TP Link Deco
BT Discs
I started with the Tenda and had some issues (may have been me) so sent it back and got Deco M4's which I am very happy
If you search on here you can have a look at the threads
Hope that makes sense
My setup which may help you
Router in Modem Mode (i.e. kill the wifi from your provideer BT, Virgin etc)
Ethernet to Mesh Node/Pod
The mesh will make you create a new SSID (Wifi Network)
All wifi stuff connects to the new network, if you do want to hardwire anything the Node has a spare Ethernet port and you can connect a switch if you want
You then add the remaining Nodes around the house, just turn them on and they will bounce off each other and the main, boosting your new network all around the house
All the other nodes have ethernet as well so for my Musiccast stuff I have that wired in for a stronger (i think) connection
So you end up with 3 almost mini routers around the house, it really is excellent
I'd guess there are 3 main recommendations
Tenda MW3/6
TP Link Deco
BT Discs
I started with the Tenda and had some issues (may have been me) so sent it back and got Deco M4's which I am very happy
If you search on here you can have a look at the threads
Hope that makes sense
C70R said:
Even when both my MBP and phone are connected to and within 6ft of the same AP, they show different Sonos stuff as available.
Your post reminded me that Sonos can potentially run it's own meshed network between different devices as long as one has a wired connection. If you've got a Sonos speaker near to the router, it may pay you to read https://support.sonos.com/s/article/3286?language=... and cable it - that article also has the usual list of wifi things to try.
xeny said:
C70R said:
Even when both my MBP and phone are connected to and within 6ft of the same AP, they show different Sonos stuff as available.
Your post reminded me that Sonos can potentially run it's own meshed network between different devices as long as one has a wired connection. If you've got a Sonos speaker near to the router, it may pay you to read https://support.sonos.com/s/article/3286?language=... and cable it - that article also has the usual list of wifi things to try.
But would that solve the problem of me being connected to the powerline AP and being able to see the Sonos kit that's driving a mesh from the router?
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