Internet options for a novice
Discussion
Hello,
Before picking up the phone to Sky, I just wanted some advice on our internet options but please treat me as a complete novice!
We currently are with Sky for our broadband and TV, paying £73 PM, £34 for the TV which includes sky kids and box sets, we don't want to loose any of this. But since we are now both WFH and I have been told I am doing so permanently we need to sort our broadband out, we are on the Sky fiber unlimited 'deal' which is £38.99 PM (£18.99 line rental and £20 broadband charge).
The internet is very 'stable' but has always been fairly 'slow' if we have multiple devices streaming at once. We have CAT6 ports in all of the rooms directly into the router and only use the WIFI for mobiles/tablets.
Using www.speedtest.net we seem to be averaging ~ 23-24Mbps Download and 6.3Mbps Upload (60 ping).
Looking at the sky deals to upgrade to 'Sky Broadband Superfast' it states you could get speeds averaging from 2.1 - 40Mbs which doesn't seem much of an improvement.
Looking at the Virgin M350 package it looks very appealing but is it too good to be true, it states the "The minimum download speed to your Virgin Media router should not fall below 181 Mbps with average range between 368 and 381 Mbps." This was using my address and postcode.
Will Sky be able to get us anywhere near that? It seems to suggest we would be capped at 40, is download and upload really our problem or would a mesh system vastly improve our speed? Truthfully I don't even know what mesh is!
I don't think we need 300+ but it would be nice to see 100+
Thank you!
Before picking up the phone to Sky, I just wanted some advice on our internet options but please treat me as a complete novice!
We currently are with Sky for our broadband and TV, paying £73 PM, £34 for the TV which includes sky kids and box sets, we don't want to loose any of this. But since we are now both WFH and I have been told I am doing so permanently we need to sort our broadband out, we are on the Sky fiber unlimited 'deal' which is £38.99 PM (£18.99 line rental and £20 broadband charge).
The internet is very 'stable' but has always been fairly 'slow' if we have multiple devices streaming at once. We have CAT6 ports in all of the rooms directly into the router and only use the WIFI for mobiles/tablets.
Using www.speedtest.net we seem to be averaging ~ 23-24Mbps Download and 6.3Mbps Upload (60 ping).
Looking at the sky deals to upgrade to 'Sky Broadband Superfast' it states you could get speeds averaging from 2.1 - 40Mbs which doesn't seem much of an improvement.
Looking at the Virgin M350 package it looks very appealing but is it too good to be true, it states the "The minimum download speed to your Virgin Media router should not fall below 181 Mbps with average range between 368 and 381 Mbps." This was using my address and postcode.
Will Sky be able to get us anywhere near that? It seems to suggest we would be capped at 40, is download and upload really our problem or would a mesh system vastly improve our speed? Truthfully I don't even know what mesh is!
I don't think we need 300+ but it would be nice to see 100+
Thank you!
In simple terms you get your broadband over the BT/Openreach phone network - even if it is sold to you by Sky/BT/Plusnet/Zen or whoever - so the maximum speed you can get is limited by physical factors such as how far you are from the nearest cabinet, the state of the wiring & your internal wiring. If you put your phone number into a checker such as this one it will tell you you approximate maximum expected speed up & down:
https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband
Of course you may be artificially capped because you are on a cheaper package.
Virgin operate a completely separate network of their own so they are not limited by the Openreach infrastructure, hence they can offer higher speeds. Note they are note without issues though.
There is a system called Fibre To The Premises where you are actually connected by a new fibre optic cable all of your own. This can give very high speeds but it is limited in availbility & more expensive. this checker will tell you if you can get it:
https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband/ultrafast-fibre-br...
https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband
Of course you may be artificially capped because you are on a cheaper package.
Virgin operate a completely separate network of their own so they are not limited by the Openreach infrastructure, hence they can offer higher speeds. Note they are note without issues though.
There is a system called Fibre To The Premises where you are actually connected by a new fibre optic cable all of your own. This can give very high speeds but it is limited in availbility & more expensive. this checker will tell you if you can get it:
https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband/ultrafast-fibre-br...
You can have different providers for your TV and broadband/phone
We did this and kept sky TV and dropped their broadband to go with Vodafone at £20 per month. We were on the same broadband as you at £38 per month so its a good saving by splitting providers.
Of course as has been mentioned all internet via phone line is via the openreach network so the speed we got with Sky is the same speed we get with Vodafone.
We did this and kept sky TV and dropped their broadband to go with Vodafone at £20 per month. We were on the same broadband as you at £38 per month so its a good saving by splitting providers.
Of course as has been mentioned all internet via phone line is via the openreach network so the speed we got with Sky is the same speed we get with Vodafone.
Mr Pointy is right. No Openreach FTTC (the type of connection you have) is going to exceed what you're receiving within a margin of error. A mesh system is all about WiFi coverage in your house - it doesn't improve your connection speed to the internet beyond what is physically possible.
So if you want faster internet you'll need a faster provider and that means different technology. Options include:
- FTTP as described by Mr Pointy is ideal if you can get it and most homes can't.
- FTTPoD is a different means to get fibre to your door from an ISP that ises BT Openreach's infrastructure. Tends to cost tens of thousands to have installed so most people rule it out
- Virgin is also a fibre technology to your door that has high headline speeds. If available then it's a good choice with some caveats I'll mention later
- Satellite won't get you any quicker than you have and suffers from high latency and data caps
- 4G/5G can get higher speeds but can be quite variable in service, tends to have slightly higher latency on 4G and suffers from CGNAT if you want to run services from home (doubtful though)
- A WISP. Again, not much faster than you have and tends to only be rolled out where other options aren't available.
So Virgin would be the obvious choice for you if you can get it. A couple of caveats though. Firstly I don't know anyone who likes the Virgin supplied router (called a superhub). Terrible WiFi so I'm told. It may be fine out of the box for you but many provision alternative routing and wifi solutions. Secondly, and I only hear 2nd hand, but the headline speeds and latency can take a dip in peak hours. Their back end infrastructure is not a robust/mature as BT's and sometimes it suffers. I do know people who get around this by having both Virgin and an FTTC provider like Sky and load balance the connections. It's not for the faint hearted if you're not technically savvy and of course there's a cost implication of running two broadband connections.
So if you want faster internet you'll need a faster provider and that means different technology. Options include:
- FTTP as described by Mr Pointy is ideal if you can get it and most homes can't.
- FTTPoD is a different means to get fibre to your door from an ISP that ises BT Openreach's infrastructure. Tends to cost tens of thousands to have installed so most people rule it out
- Virgin is also a fibre technology to your door that has high headline speeds. If available then it's a good choice with some caveats I'll mention later
- Satellite won't get you any quicker than you have and suffers from high latency and data caps
- 4G/5G can get higher speeds but can be quite variable in service, tends to have slightly higher latency on 4G and suffers from CGNAT if you want to run services from home (doubtful though)
- A WISP. Again, not much faster than you have and tends to only be rolled out where other options aren't available.
So Virgin would be the obvious choice for you if you can get it. A couple of caveats though. Firstly I don't know anyone who likes the Virgin supplied router (called a superhub). Terrible WiFi so I'm told. It may be fine out of the box for you but many provision alternative routing and wifi solutions. Secondly, and I only hear 2nd hand, but the headline speeds and latency can take a dip in peak hours. Their back end infrastructure is not a robust/mature as BT's and sometimes it suffers. I do know people who get around this by having both Virgin and an FTTC provider like Sky and load balance the connections. It's not for the faint hearted if you're not technically savvy and of course there's a cost implication of running two broadband connections.
Mr Pointy said:
In simple terms you get your broadband over the BT/Openreach phone network - even if it is sold to you by Sky/BT/Plusnet/Zen or whoever - so the maximum speed you can get is limited by physical factors such as how far you are from the nearest cabinet, the state of the wiring & your internal wiring. If you put your phone number into a checker such as this one it will tell you you approximate maximum expected speed up & down:
https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband
Of course you may be artificially capped because you are on a cheaper package.
Virgin operate a completely separate network of their own so they are not limited by the Openreach infrastructure, hence they can offer higher speeds. Note they are note without issues though.
There is a system called Fibre To The Premises where you are actually connected by a new fibre optic cable all of your own. This can give very high speeds but it is limited in availbility & more expensive. this checker will tell you if you can get it:
https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband/ultrafast-fibre-br...
Thank you, just ran both the above links:https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband
Of course you may be artificially capped because you are on a cheaper package.
Virgin operate a completely separate network of their own so they are not limited by the Openreach infrastructure, hence they can offer higher speeds. Note they are note without issues though.
There is a system called Fibre To The Premises where you are actually connected by a new fibre optic cable all of your own. This can give very high speeds but it is limited in availbility & more expensive. this checker will tell you if you can get it:
https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband/ultrafast-fibre-br...
"Unfortunately based on the details provided, you're unable to benefit from Ultrafast broadband at the moment. You're able to receive Superfast fibre broadband though, great for high quality streaming, gaming and much more."
The two options returned were:
28Mbps Estimated Download Speed 25-40 Mbps Estimated Download Range 5.3 Mbps Estimated Upload Speed
No real improvement over what we are currently getting then.
So would the only option worth considering be Virgin? All I have heard is horror stories, whereas Sky has been stable.
All ISPs have horror stories. Virgin is a direct cable to your house and in my experience is a lot more stable than relying on the phone network eg: when bad whether brings down local lines. Virgin customer services are a different matter though....
You'll probably get a better deal if you switch the TV to Virgin as well. Just check what they are offering compared to SKY. The Virgin TV boxes are a lot better than SKY unless you have the Q boxes already.
You'll probably get a better deal if you switch the TV to Virgin as well. Just check what they are offering compared to SKY. The Virgin TV boxes are a lot better than SKY unless you have the Q boxes already.
BigTZ4M said:
Mr Pointy is right. No Openreach FTTC (the type of connection you have) is going to exceed what you're receiving within a margin of error. A mesh system is all about WiFi coverage in your house - it doesn't improve your connection speed to the internet beyond what is physically possible.
So if you want faster internet you'll need a faster provider and that means different technology. Options include:
- FTTP as described by Mr Pointy is ideal if you can get it and most homes can't.
- FTTPoD is a different means to get fibre to your door from an ISP that ises BT Openreach's infrastructure. Tends to cost tens of thousands to have installed so most people rule it out
- Virgin is also a fibre technology to your door that has high headline speeds. If available then it's a good choice with some caveats I'll mention later
- Satellite won't get you any quicker than you have and suffers from high latency and data caps
- 4G/5G can get higher speeds but can be quite variable in service, tends to have slightly higher latency on 4G and suffers from CGNAT if you want to run services from home (doubtful though)
- A WISP. Again, not much faster than you have and tends to only be rolled out where other options aren't available.
So Virgin would be the obvious choice for you if you can get it. A couple of caveats though. Firstly I don't know anyone who likes the Virgin supplied router (called a superhub). Terrible WiFi so I'm told. It may be fine out of the box for you but many provision alternative routing and wifi solutions. Secondly, and I only hear 2nd hand, but the headline speeds and latency can take a dip in peak hours. Their back end infrastructure is not a robust/mature as BT's and sometimes it suffers. I do know people who get around this by having both Virgin and an FTTC provider like Sky and load balance the connections. It's not for the faint hearted if you're not technically savvy and of course there's a cost implication of running two broadband connections.
Thank you this is really helpful, it is looking like virgin might be the only realistic option if we want to improve our speeds.So if you want faster internet you'll need a faster provider and that means different technology. Options include:
- FTTP as described by Mr Pointy is ideal if you can get it and most homes can't.
- FTTPoD is a different means to get fibre to your door from an ISP that ises BT Openreach's infrastructure. Tends to cost tens of thousands to have installed so most people rule it out
- Virgin is also a fibre technology to your door that has high headline speeds. If available then it's a good choice with some caveats I'll mention later
- Satellite won't get you any quicker than you have and suffers from high latency and data caps
- 4G/5G can get higher speeds but can be quite variable in service, tends to have slightly higher latency on 4G and suffers from CGNAT if you want to run services from home (doubtful though)
- A WISP. Again, not much faster than you have and tends to only be rolled out where other options aren't available.
So Virgin would be the obvious choice for you if you can get it. A couple of caveats though. Firstly I don't know anyone who likes the Virgin supplied router (called a superhub). Terrible WiFi so I'm told. It may be fine out of the box for you but many provision alternative routing and wifi solutions. Secondly, and I only hear 2nd hand, but the headline speeds and latency can take a dip in peak hours. Their back end infrastructure is not a robust/mature as BT's and sometimes it suffers. I do know people who get around this by having both Virgin and an FTTC provider like Sky and load balance the connections. It's not for the faint hearted if you're not technically savvy and of course there's a cost implication of running two broadband connections.
I suppose my main concern is the reliability considering Sky has been so stable, I guess we could run the two in conjunction initially as it would be essential to have a connection now.
Not overly concerned about peak hours although, are business hours now considered peak due to a large number of people WFH?
arnie12 said:
Thank you, just ran both the above links:
"Unfortunately based on the details provided, you're unable to benefit from Ultrafast broadband at the moment. You're able to receive Superfast fibre broadband though, great for high quality streaming, gaming and much more."
The two options returned were:
28Mbps Estimated Download Speed 25-40 Mbps Estimated Download Range 5.3 Mbps Estimated Upload Speed
No real improvement over what we are currently getting then.
So would the only option worth considering be Virgin? All I have heard is horror stories, whereas Sky has been stable.
Ok, so yes the most you can get down your piece of wire is 40Mps & you can't get FTTP. Virgin do have a reputation for speeds dropping at times of heavy usage as you are sharing the bandwidth (it's called contention) but it may still suffice, especially on the faster packages. "Unfortunately based on the details provided, you're unable to benefit from Ultrafast broadband at the moment. You're able to receive Superfast fibre broadband though, great for high quality streaming, gaming and much more."
The two options returned were:
28Mbps Estimated Download Speed 25-40 Mbps Estimated Download Range 5.3 Mbps Estimated Upload Speed
No real improvement over what we are currently getting then.
So would the only option worth considering be Virgin? All I have heard is horror stories, whereas Sky has been stable.
I don't know if you have to have a phone line through Sky or whether you can drop that as well, otherwide you are looking at a substantial cost increase to go with Virgin.
The Virgin Superhub doesn't have a great reputation for Wi-Fi but you can use it just to connect to the line (modem mode) & then connect it to another router which handles the Wi-Fi signals (as described above).
BigTZ4M said:
So Virgin would be the obvious choice for you if you can get it. A couple of caveats though. Firstly I don't know anyone who likes the Virgin supplied router (called a superhub). Terrible WiFi so I'm told. It may be fine out of the box for you but many provision alternative routing and wifi solutions. Secondly, and I only hear 2nd hand, but the headline speeds and latency can take a dip in peak hours. Their back end infrastructure is not a robust/mature as BT's and sometimes it suffers. I do know people who get around this by having both Virgin and an FTTC provider like Sky and load balance the connections. It's not for the faint hearted if you're not technically savvy and of course there's a cost implication of running two broadband connections.
So my first-hand experience over the best part of 20 years is that Virgin is rock solid and speeds are far less compromised than the greater-contended BT network. I have consistently got slightly over 100% of my quoted line speed (currently 100Mb/s, previously 150Mb/s) with no obviously slowdown at any time. Service outages are infrequent and generally speaking short. I would also take issue with the idea that Virgin's back-end infrastructure is less robust or mature than BT's; that's simply not true. If anything it's the opposite in that Virgin don't have the 100 years of legacy backhaul that BT have to contend with.Yes some people complain about the router but for 99% of people it's more than fine. The wifi in itself isn't poor but suffers the same coverage issues as any single access point.
Apologies if I'm coming across as a bit of a Virgin fanboi but in reality none of the "issues" mentioned above actually exist.
A bit left field but i get my broadband via the mobile network . I have a router with a SIM in it which is on Smarty (using the 3 network) £20 a month unlimited data with no speed throttling . I only get 1 bar of signal which gets me 24meg down 6meg up.
Unfortunately i live in the countryside so the cell i attach to isnt cat 6 which with a compatible router and half decent signal should apparently give me at least double that speed.
Unfortunately i live in the countryside so the cell i attach to isnt cat 6 which with a compatible router and half decent signal should apparently give me at least double that speed.
deckster said:
So my first-hand experience over the best part of 20 years is that Virgin is rock solid and speeds are far less compromised than the greater-contended BT network. I have consistently got slightly over 100% of my quoted line speed (currently 100Mb/s, previously 150Mb/s) with no obviously slowdown at any time. Service outages are infrequent and generally speaking short. I would also take issue with the idea that Virgin's back-end infrastructure is less robust or mature than BT's; that's simply not true. If anything it's the opposite in that Virgin don't have the 100 years of legacy backhaul that BT have to contend with.
Yes some people complain about the router but for 99% of people it's more than fine. The wifi in itself isn't poor but suffers the same coverage issues as any single access point.
Apologies if I'm coming across as a bit of a Virgin fanboi but in reality none of the "issues" mentioned above actually exist.
I'm quite happy to stand corrected. As i said I only have half a dozen 2nd hand experiences with mixed reviews so it's too small a sample to draw conclusive judgement from. I'm sure there are millions with your experience and it's better for the OP to hear experiences of someone with actual usage. Yes some people complain about the router but for 99% of people it's more than fine. The wifi in itself isn't poor but suffers the same coverage issues as any single access point.
Apologies if I'm coming across as a bit of a Virgin fanboi but in reality none of the "issues" mentioned above actually exist.
I'd also agree the router only tends to be WiFi problems but given the actual job routing and being a modem is fairly straightforward it's the thing people tend to get frustrated by. I know one only tends to post about negative experiences but I see a lot of online forums with more people complaining about the Superhub than say the BT Homehub or other ISP provided equipment. But it's not even a big deal to fix by putting it into modem mode and using another router and/or APs or mesh and it may be just fine in the use case of the OP anyway.
[quote=deckste
Yes some people complain about the router but for 99% of people it's more than fine. The wifi in itself isn't poor but suffers the same coverage issues as any single access point.
[/quote]
This. I wonder if some of the dislike of the superhub is that as speeds get higher it becomes more apparent that the available broadband speed is now faster than wifi in a typical domestic setting, so there's a general "the wifi is rubbish" sentiment.
Yes some people complain about the router but for 99% of people it's more than fine. The wifi in itself isn't poor but suffers the same coverage issues as any single access point.
[/quote]
This. I wonder if some of the dislike of the superhub is that as speeds get higher it becomes more apparent that the available broadband speed is now faster than wifi in a typical domestic setting, so there's a general "the wifi is rubbish" sentiment.
Not for me. It's about coverage and the fact that speed tails off very fast over distance.
My TV was at the other end of the house and sometimes couldn't even connect and when it did there would be constant buffering same with laptops. In the next room from the router I could barely get 100meg on my phone, downstairs it was more like 50.
Even with 1 Google mesh router (before I'd set up an additional point) I was getting 200 throughout the whole of the upstairs and a better connection downstairs. Once the additional point went in downstairs it's 200meg wherever.
My TV was at the other end of the house and sometimes couldn't even connect and when it did there would be constant buffering same with laptops. In the next room from the router I could barely get 100meg on my phone, downstairs it was more like 50.
Even with 1 Google mesh router (before I'd set up an additional point) I was getting 200 throughout the whole of the upstairs and a better connection downstairs. Once the additional point went in downstairs it's 200meg wherever.
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