Which is the better? iMac or Mini?

[300bhp/ton]

My 2012 Mac Mini has been great, but I think it is time to upgrade, I notice it doesn't really cut it today. It struggles to play 4K video from my goPro and is quite slow, despite running 16GB of RAM.

I know what I'd like to buy (well specced 27" iMac), but having priced it up, it is more than I've often spent on a car!!! So I'm looking at a more modestly priced upgrade. Which brings me to these two choices:


Which of these is likely to perform better?



21.5‑inch iMac with Retina 4K display

• 3.6GHz quad-core 8th-generation Intel Core i3 processor
• 16GB DDR4 memory
• Radeon Pro 555X with 2GB of GDDR5 memory
• 256GB SSD storage
• Magic Mouse 2
• Magic Keyboard - British

£1499


Mac mini

• 3.0GHz 6‑core 8th‑generation Intel Core i5 (Turbo Boost up to 4.1GHz)
• 16GB 2666MHz DDR4
• Intel UHD Graphics 630
• 1TB SSD storage

£1499



They come in at the same money. The larger SSD of the Mini would obviously be very handy and is expensive to upgrade on the iMac, although I already use an external drive on my current 2012 model, so maybe it isn't such an issue really.


More interested in what would likely run quicker overall, such as boot up, general OS use, opening/closing programs and more specific tasks such as using Photos and iMovie. I'm not an avid gamer, but do play things like Brutal Doom and maybe some newer content occasionally, but I'm not buying it as a gaming machine. More general web use and video editing/compiling.

[megaphone]

There are new Macs coming next year with the new ARM chips, so you might want to wait.

If you do want an iMac these 2019 models are at a good price, 27" as well.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/APPLE-iMac-5K-27-2019-I...

JL has two year warranty

https://www.johnlewis.com/2019-apple-imac-27-mrqy2...

Edited by megaphone on Monday 2nd November 07:18

[PushedDover]

I know very little but found that my 2017 imac which seemingly has the same spec as the one linked: (2019 Apple iMac 27 MRQY2B/A All-in-One, Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 1TB Fusion Drive, Radeon Pro 570X, 27” 5K, Silver ) really started to struggle on the boot up and especially on the loading of MS Office App's. Seems to be the fusion drive.

I followed some clues on the 'Mac help thread' and fitted an external SSD that everything is on and it night and day difference.

Summary ?
I would not buy a Mac unless it was SSD.

[BlueMR2]

megaphone said:

There are new Macs coming next year with the new ARM chips, so you might want to wait.

If you do want an iMac these 2019 models are at a good price, 27" as well.

JL has two year warranty

https://www.johnlewis.com/2019-apple-imac-27-mrqy2...

£1.3k for a 27" with 2 years cover is pretty nice.

Not the fastest processor, however for every day tasks it will be plenty. Buy some ram, I upped mine to 32GB a few years ago, not sure what it costs now. (i'm not 100% however i'm not sure if you can upgrade a 21.5" ram yourself, you couldn't when I bought mine.)

Get a 1gb+ ssd and a cheap external case and reinstall the OS on the SSD straight away, only use the Hybrid for data etc. It will be so much faster, one of the reasons Mac laptops were so responsive with the original Air is because they moved to SSD's so early on.

Not sure on the ram cost, however this should come in around £1.5k.

Remember a 256gb samsung ssd is probably under £50, you can easily get a good 1tb for £100.

Whilst the 2 computers are the same price in your original post, the mini has no monitor, that's one of the best parts going from a cheap £150 full HD screen to the vibrant 5K in the Mac.


The 27" listed also has an I5 rather than I3 8th gen and a 570x rather than the 4k's 555x.

Edited by BlueMR2 on Monday 2nd November 08:55

[mmm-five]

The MacMini should perform better - partly due to the 'slower' 3.0ghz i5 actually performing better (about 10%) than the 3.6ghz i3 in single core performance - and obviously this translates to much better multi-core performance (about 50%)...these come from the Geekbench 5.0 benchmarks showing the MacMini at about 1000/4800 vs 900/3200 (single/multi core performance).



Okay, you don't get a discrete graphics card in the Mini, so the GPU will be slower (not much in some instances, and hugely in others)...



...but you do get the T2 chip which helps with video processing.

The Mini will support up to 1 x 5k and 1 x 4k screen, and the iMac will support 2 x 4k screens, plus its internal display.

The MacMini has more USB-C/TB3 ports, but less USB-A ports - the iMac is the other way around. The latest Mini does away with the SD card slot too.

The Mini also requires the purchase of a keyboard & mouse - but you've probably got them already.

Don't forget that neither is particularly user-upgradable once purchased - so for GPU/SSD you're stuck with what's inside unless you invest in external devices (eGPU for graphics and external SSD USB3/TB3 SSD for fast storage). RAM upgrades will require different levels of disassembly.

BTW, for comparison, my 2014 4.0ghz quad-core i7 (which was maxed out when I bought it) still feels faster than a recent MacMini I bought for my parents (already had a 32" 4k screen, so a new iMac was pointless). Looking at the same Geekbench benchmark, it's slap-bang in between both of your options (1030/3800). In real life usage, the only part where I feel the Mini is faster is in start-up, but I put that down to it having a faster SSD than the older iMacs. The iMac you're looking at will have the newer/faster SSD.

[300bhp/ton]

megaphone said:

There are new Macs coming next year with the new ARM chips, so you might want to wait.

If you do want an iMac these 2019 models are at a good price, 27" as well.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/APPLE-iMac-5K-27-2019-I...

JL has two year warranty

https://www.johnlewis.com/2019-apple-imac-27-mrqy2...

Edited by megaphone on Monday 2nd November 07:18

Thanks. But you can't configure the JL ones and you can't easily user upgrade them. So would run the risk of voiding the warranty.

[300bhp/ton]

mmm-five said:

The MacMini should perform better - partly due to the 'slower' 3.0ghz i5 actually performing better (about 10%) than the 3.6ghz i3 in single core performance - and obviously this translates to much better multi-core performance (about 50%)...these come from the Geekbench 5.0 benchmarks showing the MacMini at about 1000/4800 vs 900/3200 (single/multi core performance).


Okay, you don't get a discrete graphics card in the Mini, so the GPU will be slower (not much in some instances, and hugely in others)...


...but you do get the T2 chip which helps with video processing.

The Mini will support up to 1 x 5k and 1 x 4k screen, and the iMac will support 2 x 4k screens, plus its internal display.

The MacMini has more USB-C/TB3 ports, but less USB-A ports - the iMac is the other way around. The latest Mini does away with the SD card slot too.

The Mini also requires the purchase of a keyboard & mouse - but you've probably got them already.

Don't forget that neither is particularly user-upgradable once purchased - so for GPU/SSD you're stuck with what's inside unless you invest in external devices (eGPU for graphics and external SSD USB3/TB3 SSD for fast storage). RAM upgrades will require different levels of disassembly.

BTW, for comparison, my 2014 4.0ghz quad-core i7 (which was maxed out when I bought it) still feels faster than a recent MacMini I bought for my parents (already had a 32" 4k screen, so a new iMac was pointless). Looking at the same Geekbench benchmark, it's slap-bang in between both of your options (1030/3800). In real life usage, the only part where I feel the Mini is faster is in start-up, but I put that down to it having a faster SSD than the older iMacs. The iMac you're looking at will have the newer/faster SSD.

Thanks, so very much 6 of one and half dozen of the other then!

[BlueMR2]

300bhp/ton said:

megaphone said:

There are new Macs coming next year with the new ARM chips, so you might want to wait.

If you do want an iMac these 2019 models are at a good price, 27" as well.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/APPLE-iMac-5K-27-2019-I...

JL has two year warranty

https://www.johnlewis.com/2019-apple-imac-27-mrqy2...

Edited by megaphone on Monday 2nd November 07:18

Thanks. But you can't configure the JL ones and you can't easily user upgrade them. So would run the risk of voiding the warranty.

What are you trying to upgrade?

[300bhp/ton]

BlueMR2 said:

What are you trying to upgrade?

I'm not.

But the iMac or the Mac Mini's on JL or Currys only seem to have 8GB of RAM and not always the SSD option. Unless I'm missing something there doesn't seem to be a way to configure these from those sellers.

And I certainly wouldn't buy a new Mac and then retro fit more RAM or an SSD and void the warranty. I'm pretty sure neither of these are user upgradable on the newer models either.

I retro fitted and installed more RAM in my 2012 model. But have thus far not installed the SSD I've got, as it seems quite easy to break something. Quite a bit needs taking apart. Probably not an issue for some, but I couldn't risk having no PC at all if I buggered it up.

[BlueMR2]

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201191#install1

How to upgrade the ram, 5k 2019 imac,
Number of memory slots 4
Base memory 8 GB (2 x 4 GB DIMMs)
Maximum memory 64 GB (4 x 16 GB DIMMs)

• Memory is not removable by users on iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2012), iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2013), iMac (21.5-inch, Mid 2014), iMac (21.5-inch, 2017), iMac (Retina 4K, 21.5-inch, 2017) and iMac (Retina 4K, 21.5-inch, 2019).

Memory in iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2015) and iMac (Retina 4K, 21.5-inch, Late 2015) is not upgradeable.

https://support.apple.com/kb/SP790?viewlocale=en_G...

Spec of the 2019 iMac. You are looking at the base spec for the £1299 one from John Lewis so 3ghz 6 core i5 i believe, but you can check the spec on John Lewis's website.

Then just add an external SSD as I mentioned earlier for the operating system. Either usb or thunderbolt if you prefer. Whichever size you prefer.

However the choice is obviously yours to get which you prefer.

[seyre1972]

How about an Apple refurbed machine - 2018 Core i7 16GB Ram 512GB SSD

Apple Refurb Mac Mini

Tech Specs
Processor
3.2GHz 6-core 8th-generation Intel Core i7 (Turbo Boost up to 4.6GHz), with 12MB shared L3 cache
Memory
16GB of 2666MHz DDR4 SO-DIMM memory
Storage
512GB PCIe-based SSD1
Graphics
Intel UHD Graphics 630
Charging and Expansion
Four Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports with support for:
DisplayPort
Thunderbolt (up to 40 Gbps)
USB-C 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10 Gbps)
Thunderbolt 2, HDMI, DVI and VGA supported using adapters (sold separately)
Two USB 3 ports (up to 5 Gbps)
HDMI 2.0 port
3.5mm headphone jack
Gigabit Ethernet port

[300bhp/ton]

BlueMR2 said:

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201191#install1

How to upgrade the ram, 5k 2019 imac,
Number of memory slots 4
Base memory 8 GB (2 x 4 GB DIMMs)
Maximum memory 64 GB (4 x 16 GB DIMMs)

• Memory is not removable by users on iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2012), iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2013), iMac (21.5-inch, Mid 2014), iMac (21.5-inch, 2017), iMac (Retina 4K, 21.5-inch, 2017) and iMac (Retina 4K, 21.5-inch, 2019).

Memory in iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2015) and iMac (Retina 4K, 21.5-inch, Late 2015) is not upgradeable.

https://support.apple.com/kb/SP790?viewlocale=en_G...

Spec of the 2019 iMac. You are looking at the base spec for the £1299 one from John Lewis so 3ghz 6 core i5 i believe, but you can check the spec on John Lewis's website.

Then just add an external SSD as I mentioned earlier for the operating system. Either usb or thunderbolt if you prefer. Whichever size you prefer.

However the choice is obviously yours to get which you prefer.

Thanks.

I wasn't looking at the one on JL. Someone else posted it up.

My comment was, I wasn't considering it because you can't upgrade it by configuring it before purchase.


Personally I would not want to run the OS on an external drive. Maybe on an old system you are patching together to keep working, but it seems such a ghetto answer when looking at spending a fair wedge on a new machine. All IMO

[PushedDover]

300bhp/ton said:

Personally I would not want to run the OS on an external drive. Maybe on an old system you are patching together to keep working, but it seems such a ghetto answer when looking at spending a fair wedge on a new machine. All IMO

I'd agree !

[page3]

PushedDover said:

300bhp/ton said:

Personally I would not want to run the OS on an external drive. Maybe on an old system you are patching together to keep working, but it seems such a ghetto answer when looking at spending a fair wedge on a new machine. All IMO

I'd agree !

Why? Been running OSX from an external drive for over 10 years now.

[stemll]

megaphone said:

There are new Macs coming next year with the new ARM chips, so you might want to wait.

There are new ARM Macs due but no-one outside Apple knows for certain which will be first. iMac is a fair guess as it's one of the oldest in the range but looks more like it will be the MacBooks first. Mini is the least likely I'd suggest.

Also, like when they changed from PowerPC to Intel, they will be running lots of things in an emulator for some time until the developers release Intel versions so not always best to be an early adopter.

Seems we might find out next week....

https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/11/02/what-to...

[300bhp/ton]

stemll said:

megaphone said:

There are new Macs coming next year with the new ARM chips, so you might want to wait.

There are new ARM Macs due but no-one outside Apple knows for certain which will be first. iMac is a fair guess as it's one of the oldest in the range but looks more like it will be the MacBooks first. Mini is the least likely I'd suggest.

Also, like when they changed from PowerPC to Intel, they will be running lots of things in an emulator for some time until the developers release Intel versions so not always best to be an early adopter.

Seems we might find out next week....

https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/11/02/what-to...

This does all interest me. But ultimately if it takes the planned 2 years to refresh the entire range (which is optimistic I'd have thought based on how long the past Mac Mini refresh took!) with the new processors. And with the first not likely available until next year. Means realistically I could be holding off buying for another 2.5 - 4 years.

And I can't see that they'd instantly kill off the current and existing models in terms of support or being able to use them. So I'm not sure if this would be reason enough not to buy.

[mmm-five]

Hopefully Rosetta 2 will perform significantly better than the original, as it doesn't have to also go from CISC to RISC and big-endian to little-endian - so in one way there'll be 2/3rd of the work for the JIT translator to handle.

Also, Apple has had developers working on ARM apps for over a decade on iOS devices, and there's already a developer kit around to move from one to the other.

[BlueMR2]

300bhp/ton said:

Thanks.

I wasn't looking at the one on JL. Someone else posted it up.

My comment was, I wasn't considering it because you can't upgrade it by configuring it before purchase.


Personally I would not want to run the OS on an external drive. Maybe on an old system you are patching together to keep working, but it seems such a ghetto answer when looking at spending a fair wedge on a new machine. All IMO

Apples upgrade prices are insane. £200 for 8gb of ram, £200 for a 512gb drive instead of 256gb. Another £200 to go from 512gb to 1TB is absurd.

£200 gets you 2TB sata externally.

Having 256gb will be pretty useless if you plan on editing 4k video. So you can spend another £400 on a 1tb drive internally from apple, or spend £400 on 4tb of external space that you can upgrade whenever you want.

However it's totally your choice of course, however I wouldn't spend my money on a slower 21.5" imac when I could have a 27" for a similar price if not alot cheaper if you plan on maxing ram and disk space.

[300bhp/ton]

BlueMR2 said:

Apples upgrade prices are insane. £200 for 8gb of ram, £200 for a 512gb drive instead of 256gb. Another £200 to go from 512gb to 1TB is absurd.

£200 gets you 2TB sata externally.

Having 256gb will be pretty useless if you plan on editing 4k video. So you can spend another £400 on a 1tb drive internally from apple, or spend £400 on 4tb of external space that you can upgrade whenever you want.

However it's totally your choice of course, however I wouldn't spend my money on a slower 21.5" imac when I could have a 27" for a similar price if not alot cheaper if you plan on maxing ram and disk space.

I have no objections to an external drive. I have one now. But I wouldn't want the OS running on it, on a brand new expensive computer.... that's the crux.

The 27" 2019 iMac only has 8GB of RAM. I have 16 now in my 2012 Mini, so it would seem a backwards step. And unless I'm mistaken, the only way to upgrade it in the 'new' 2019 iMac would be to void the warranty.

[mmm-five]

My dad has a recent MacMini and we simply bought him the smallest SSD we could get (128GB) but with 16GB RAM.

We were lucky and found one on the refurb store for less than £600 (yes, I know, we could have probably bought him the latest & greatest Windows 10 gaming PC for that) - but I've simply sorted him out with one of my old 1TB SATA SSDs in a USB3 enclosure for all his data (and moved the home folder to the external drive).

His apps & system are on the very quick internal (over 2000mbps read) and it starts up in less than 10 seconds.

Coming from a 2012 model with a HDD, which was only upgraded to an SSD in 2019, he's quite surprised at the difference (to him, an SSD is an SSD - he doesn't care that one is 500mbps and the other is 2500mbps - he just knows the 100mbps HDD was really slow).