Networking advice

[sparkyhx]

I was just wonding if someone could advise the best setup for my network at home.

I have 3 switches,
Switch 1 - 8 port (50/50 POE),
Switch 2 - 5 port
Switch 3 - 8 port.

Switch 1 and 2 are near the router downstairs - These are daisy chained i.e. router to switch 2 to switch 1 to switch 3
Switch 3 is upstairs and runs the upstairs network of Main PC, work laptop(wired), 2* printers 2* NAS (CCTV Recording)
Bulk of the network traffic is for the CCTV which goes thru Switch 1(POE) to Switch 3 and to the NAS.
Switch 2 (5port) has the Hive, TV, Sonos, DVR and is plugged into the Router

Wifi is supplied by BT mesh discs and the 'hub' is plugged Switch 1 (8portPOE)
Internet traffic is either via Router to BT Disks or Router, switch 2, switch 1, switch 3 to the office.

So basically the router only has 1 wire from Switch 2 for internet traffic

From a network design/speed/efficiency do I need to worry what switches are connected to what and what connected to the router etc. or is there an optimal design?

Recently i've been having issues with Zoom/teams both wired and wifi. My wife's business is being affected by the zoom issues (psychotherapist) so in desparation I swiched the BT disks straight to the router rather than thru Switch 1 - switch 2 - router. She's not done a full days work since so its too early to tell for sure, but early indications with family zoom calls over the weekend, its been more stable.

So finally the question - Is it better to daisy chain the switches (as current) and let them sort out all the internal traffic (CCTV, Streaming for Sonos and Plex) and then have a single switch connected to the router so its only got to worry about the interneta traffic or should I have each switch connected into the router? Bearing in mind its the bog standard freebie internet provider one?

[toohuge]

Could you detail what switches you are using ? And are you sure they’re switches and not hubs?

[Mr Pointy]

On the face of it you've managed to build the worst possible arrangement of devices & connections. All of your most important work stuff is stuck on the end of a chain of switches with single uplink connections shared with high bandwith stuff like CCTV & TV/video.

For a start get the work items & the wi-fi as close to the router as you can (cabled direct). If the NAS is only doing the CCTV then get it on the same switch as the cameras. Look at having similar stuff on the same switch - one for CCTV, another for TV/Sonos etc, the primary one for PCs & printers.

[xeny]

Presuming they're all gigabit, then it shouldn't make a significant difference but as Mr Pointy says, best practice would be to try and get similar kit all on the same switch to minimise inter switch traffic, and localise the impact if one switch fails.

It would be worth checking that all the inter switch links are running at 1 gigabit link speed rather than 100 Mbit - typically there's a key on the front of each switch showing what colour the LED by each port is for the different possible speeds.

Even the shoddiest ISP provided router normally copes with switching local traffic without breaking a sweat, but check that the one you've got has gigabit rather than 100Mbit network ports.

[anonymoususer]

Mr Pointy said:

On the face of it you've managed to build the worst possible arrangement of devices & connections. All of your most important work stuff is stuck on the end of a chain of switches with single uplink connections shared with high bandwith stuff like CCTV & TV/video.

For a start get the work items & the wi-fi as close to the router as you can (cabled direct). If the NAS is only doing the CCTV then get it on the same switch as the cameras. Look at having similar stuff on the same switch - one for CCTV, another for TV/Sonos etc, the primary one for PCs & printers.

I would of thought it would be better to go:
Router to switch one
Router to switch two
Router to switch three
Than going from switch to switch ?
Am I correct ?

[colin79666]

Depends how much inter-device traffic there is, if the switches are layer 2 or if they are layer 3 switches (with appropriate config) and if you have any vlans.

Worst case scenario is layer 2 switches with vlans and having them daisy chained with cross vlan traffic having to go up the line to the router to come back down the line again to the adjacent port on the same switch!

Some more details on the link speeds, switch models and a diagram would be beneficial here. Diagrams.net is a handy and free place to put a network diagram together.

[xeny]

anonymoususer said:

I would of thought it would be better to go:
Router to switch one
Router to switch two
Router to switch three
Than going from switch to switch ?
Am I correct ?

If the majority of the traffic is out to the internet, this would be appealing, but that isn't always the case.

It also depends if the router supports gigabit. I suspect the likelihood of any VLANs is remote, but I wonder because of the way the 5 port switch is being used to hang everything off it if the router is ( or a previous one was) only 100 mbit.

I have a single switch connected to the router and everything hung off that because I want a managed switch on my external connection so I can run SNMP and look at traffic levels. This is mainly so when there are discussions about "we need faster broadband" I can point out who is using it most and hence should put their hand in their pocket.

[sparkyhx]

toohuge said:

Could you detail what switches you are using ? And are you sure they’re switches and not hubs?

all 3 are netgear prosafe - not managed
Switch 3 is a GS108
Switch 1 is a GS108P
Switch 2 GS105

Edited by sparkyhx on Sunday 21st February 15:38

[sparkyhx]

xeny said:

anonymoususer said:

I would of thought it would be better to go:
Router to switch one
Router to switch two
Router to switch three
Than going from switch to switch ?
Am I correct ?

If the majority of the traffic is out to the internet, this would be appealing, but that isn't always the case.

It also depends if the router supports gigabit. I suspect the likelihood of any VLANs is remote, but I wonder because of the way the 5 port switch is being used to hang everything off it if the router is ( or a previous one was) only 100 mbit.

I have a single switch connected to the router and everything hung off that because I want a managed switch on my external connection so I can run SNMP and look at traffic levels. This is mainly so when there are discussions about "we need faster broadband" I can point out who is using it most and hence should put their hand in their pocket.

internet traffic is minimal compared with internal cctv-NAS traffic.

[sparkyhx]

I might investigate moving the NAS and have it hanging off the same switch. The problem is I've run out of plug sockets - I am already and using 12.

Am I right the switches learn where other MAC addresses are and handle the routing within the network not bothering the router.?

A few years ago I previously had the 3 switches separate and the Mesh wifi on the 4 Router ports. The above solution was suggested by the ISP after I had performance issues and they said the router probably couldnt manage the volume of devices (I have 27-30 depending on phones connected) I didnt believe them but went along with it to shut them up. They eventually 'rewired' my property from the pole. Previously I had the 3 switches separate and the Mesh wifi on the 4 Router ports.

Hive Sonos and TV are all connected to the first switch in the chain so the internet path is 'short' for them. The upstairs main PC has the longest internet run - thru the 3 switches

[xeny]

sparkyhx said:

Am I right the switches learn where other MAC addresses are and handle the routing within the network not bothering the router.?

Yes, exactly correct. Means things may be a little screwy immediately after you move equipment as the switches will think it is on a different switch/port.

Thing to remember is that the switches have gigabit between all the ports they have all at once, but only 1 gigabit between two switches, so in an ideal world you keep the "bulk" traffic to a single switch. This has the bonus that if a switch dies, you only lose the group of "associated devices" so if you mainly use the NAS to record from the CCTV, it makes sense to have them both on the same switch for example.

I'd try not to daisy chain the connection to the office PC as much as it appears to be simply so if an inter switch connection gets jiggled you don't lose internet connectivity.

Have you confirmed the router itself has gigabit capable network ports?

[sparkyhx]

xeny said:

sparkyhx said:

Am I right the switches learn where other MAC addresses are and handle the routing within the network not bothering the router.?

Yes, exactly correct. Means things may be a little screwy immediately after you move equipment as the switches will think it is on a different switch/port.

Thing to remember is that the switches have gigabit between all the ports they have all at once, but only 1 gigabit between two switches, so in an ideal world you keep the "bulk" traffic to a single switch. This has the bonus that if a switch dies, you only lose the group of "associated devices" so if you mainly use the NAS to record from the CCTV, it makes sense to have them both on the same switch for example.

I'd try not to daisy chain the connection to the office PC as much as it appears to be simply so if an inter switch connection gets jiggled you don't lose internet connectivity.

Have you confirmed the router itself has gigabit capable network ports?

Thanks

Yes the router does have gbit ports.
hmm interesting what you are saying about inter switch vs switch to switch - is that the same for POE side of a switch to 'non POE side as well? the GS108P is a 50/50 split
will putting them on the same switch actally help ? cos at the end of the day 3 ports of CCTV still have to funnel thru 1 port to the NAS (thankfully Synology NAS is gigabit)

As a starter I will plug the Wifi into the router as the wifi is purely internet and no need to lenghten the chain for that

[anonymoususer]

xeny said:

Yes, exactly correct. Means things may be a little screwy immediately after you move equipment as the switches will think it is on a different switch/port.

Thing to remember is that the switches have gigabit between all the ports they have all at once, but only 1 gigabit between two switches, so in an ideal world you keep the "bulk" traffic to a single switch. This has the bonus that if a switch dies, you only lose the group of "associated devices" so if you mainly use the NAS to record from the CCTV, it makes sense to have them both on the same switch for example.

I'd try not to daisy chain the connection to the office PC as much as it appears to be simply so if an inter switch connection gets jiggled you don't lose internet connectivity.

Have you confirmed the router itself has gigabit capable network ports?

All my kit is on a fixed DHCP address from the router. I always thought that made a difference to some extent ?

[xeny]

I'd expect the GS108P to be uniform internally from a speed viewpoint.

I'd be very surprised if 3 CCTV cameras approach gigabit, but if it's easy to avoid, it won't hurt not having that traffic sharing a connection with Zoom/Teams going to/from the internet, where latency really matters.

I'd suggest the most critical thing though is to check that all the inter switch links are gigabit. A slightly duff cable that restricts one of those links to 100 Mbit (the classic problem is a cheap cable with only 4 conductors or kinked with a broken cable internally) would take everything from having lots of performance in hand to potentially a bit bottlenecked.

[sparkyhx]

schematic of current setup

[Chozza]

I'd revert to your previous setup !

Connect the 3 switches and bt mesh direct to the router

[sparkyhx]

xeny said:

I'd expect the GS108P to be uniform internally from a speed viewpoint.

I'd be very surprised if 3 CCTV cameras approach gigabit, but if it's easy to avoid, it won't hurt not having that traffic sharing a connection with Zoom/Teams going to/from the internet, where latency really matters.

I'd suggest the most critical thing though is to check that all the inter switch links are gigabit. A slightly duff cable that restricts one of those links to 100 Mbit (the classic problem is a cheap cable with only 4 conductors or kinked with a broken cable internally) would take everything from having lots of performance in hand to potentially a bit bottlenecked.

All switch to switch and router shows 1gb, Cameras showing 100mb/s, Hive, Sonos, TV and DVR showing 100mbs but not sure if that is just 'connected' or the speed

[survivalist]

Have you checked that the net gear switches are hitting the speeds they advertise?

Having had a few I’ve seen lots of issues where they struggle to get anywhere close to their recommended speeds, issues as they get older (bad/cheap capacitors) and also very sensitive to cable / cable termination quality.

As they are usually unmanaged, it’s usually hard to get stats on any of the above.

[biggiles]

Your setup doesn't look "bad". Even if everything is running at 100mbps, you should have plenty of spare bandwidth everywhere. e.g. a CCTV camera is often 4-6 mbps, so even ten of them are fine across fast Ethernet. You've also kept lots of the internal traffic off your router, which is probably a good thing.

Are you sure it's *within* your network? If Zoom calls aren't working well, then your internet connection is perhaps the weak point. I generally find the upload / poor QOS is the weak point (fixed in my case using an Ubiquiti ER-X). How much upload bandwidth do you have, and are you hitting the limit?

[anonymoususer]

I may have missed it but is the OP's router the BT Smart Hub ?