Modernising my AV "experience"....
Discussion
Ok, confusing myslef with all the options these days....
Having just moved, we find our current 9ish year old Panny TV to small, and lacking in up to date apps.....
We *used* to use VM for Internet, had an Apple TV3 into the telly, and the sound all ran through an NAD amp and chunky B&W speakers.....
We also used to have an old Tivo....
Music wise - have been a long time Itunes user with a big database of tunes on a large ext HDD.
Moving forward, we need a new larger TV with all the new streaming apps as dont want a seperate TV box or sub.
MrsT7 wants wireless speakers and no amp now.
Only want to use streaming services - already have Prime and Netflix.....
Music - I guess we are going to have to start renting that now, so I imagaine Apple music for that.....
Ands this is where I get lost really..... do all these built in apps work well on a new TV ?
If I could ethernet the TV to the router, would that save WIFI bandwidth ?
Whats the best thing for maybe 3 music locations now ? Sonos ?
If Sonos, would I need a family Apple music sub to play multiple songs on multiple devices/areas?
And them, I need to make the WIFI whole house to as its crap, so assuming a Mes of some sort ?
TLDR - Idiot trying to be clever with tech but hasnt got a clue.......
Having just moved, we find our current 9ish year old Panny TV to small, and lacking in up to date apps.....
We *used* to use VM for Internet, had an Apple TV3 into the telly, and the sound all ran through an NAD amp and chunky B&W speakers.....
We also used to have an old Tivo....
Music wise - have been a long time Itunes user with a big database of tunes on a large ext HDD.
Moving forward, we need a new larger TV with all the new streaming apps as dont want a seperate TV box or sub.
MrsT7 wants wireless speakers and no amp now.
Only want to use streaming services - already have Prime and Netflix.....
Music - I guess we are going to have to start renting that now, so I imagaine Apple music for that.....
Ands this is where I get lost really..... do all these built in apps work well on a new TV ?
If I could ethernet the TV to the router, would that save WIFI bandwidth ?
Whats the best thing for maybe 3 music locations now ? Sonos ?
If Sonos, would I need a family Apple music sub to play multiple songs on multiple devices/areas?
And them, I need to make the WIFI whole house to as its crap, so assuming a Mes of some sort ?
TLDR - Idiot trying to be clever with tech but hasnt got a clue.......
Any new TV will be fine for the streaming apps, Ethernet will prevent any WiFi issue but I suspect your WiFi has more bandwidth than your internet connection anyway so it won’t exactly save anything.
I use a Sonos Beam and 2 x One’s for my TV.
Apple Music works well with Sonos and you can have multiple devices signed in simultaneously so you don’t need the Family sub. However, I pay for the Family sub so that my wife and kids can use it without buggering around with my playlists but as far as I know you can only use one account on the Sonos kit.
Think the Sonos kit also creates a mesh network unless that’s changed recently.
Sounds like you’re downgrading your sound system TBH, but I’ve no complaints with my setup at all.
I use a Sonos Beam and 2 x One’s for my TV.
Apple Music works well with Sonos and you can have multiple devices signed in simultaneously so you don’t need the Family sub. However, I pay for the Family sub so that my wife and kids can use it without buggering around with my playlists but as far as I know you can only use one account on the Sonos kit.
Think the Sonos kit also creates a mesh network unless that’s changed recently.
Sounds like you’re downgrading your sound system TBH, but I’ve no complaints with my setup at all.
Edited by HRL on Friday 16th April 18:41
HRL said:
Any new TV will be fine for the streaming apps, Ethernet will prevent any WiFi issue but I suspect your WiFi has more bandwidth than your internet connection anyway so it won’t exactly save anything.
I use a Sonos Beam and 2 x One’s for my TV.
Apple Music works well with Sonos and you can have multiple devices signed in simultaneously so you don’t need the Family sub. However, I pay for the Family sub so that my wife and kids can use it without buggering around with my playlists but as far as I know you can only use one account on the Sonos kit.
Think the Sonos kit also creates a mesh network unless that’s changed recently.
Sounds like you’re downgrading your sound system TBH, but I’ve no complaints with my setup at all.
And this is part of my issue...for TV Im not bothered, but for Music, IT is important, very important......I use a Sonos Beam and 2 x One’s for my TV.
Apple Music works well with Sonos and you can have multiple devices signed in simultaneously so you don’t need the Family sub. However, I pay for the Family sub so that my wife and kids can use it without buggering around with my playlists but as far as I know you can only use one account on the Sonos kit.
Think the Sonos kit also creates a mesh network unless that’s changed recently.
Sounds like you’re downgrading your sound system TBH, but I’ve no complaints with my setup at all.
Edited by HRL on Friday 16th April 18:41
Turn7 said:
And this is part of my issue...for TV Im not bothered, but for Music, IT is important, very important......
You can’t have your cake and eat it. 
I’m sure you can buy better quality wireless speakers but it all depends on your budget. Someone on here will come along with some more expensive options I’m sure.
HRL said:
Turn7 said:
And this is part of my issue...for TV Im not bothered, but for Music, IT is important, very important......
You can’t have your cake and eat it. I’m sure you can buy better quality wireless speakers but it all depends on your budget. Someone on here will come along with some more expensive options I’m sure.
We’ve got the Sonos setup for the TV, a Play 5 in the kitchen, a Play 3 in my daughters room and a Move that I use in the garden when BBQ’ing, or for anywhere else that we put it.
Works for us and I will probably buy more Sonos kit at some point once we’ve moved home in a couple of months.
There are better sounding bits of kit out there but even my wife and kids manage to use the Sonos app so we’ve stuck with it.
Got a Richer Sounds anywhere near you? They’ll probably have some stuff you can listen to yourself.
Works for us and I will probably buy more Sonos kit at some point once we’ve moved home in a couple of months.
There are better sounding bits of kit out there but even my wife and kids manage to use the Sonos app so we’ve stuck with it.
Got a Richer Sounds anywhere near you? They’ll probably have some stuff you can listen to yourself.
HRL said:
We’ve got the Sonos setup for the TV, a Play 5 in the kitchen, a Play 3 in my daughters room and a Move that I use in the garden when BBQ’ing, or for anywhere else that we put it.
Works for us and I will probably buy more Sonos kit at some point once we’ve moved home in a couple of months.
There are better sounding bits of kit out there but even my wife and kids manage to use the Sonos app so we’ve stuck with it.
Got a Richer Sounds anywhere near you? They’ll probably have some stuff you can listen to yourself.
Nearish, yeah..been waiting for them to reopen.Works for us and I will probably buy more Sonos kit at some point once we’ve moved home in a couple of months.
There are better sounding bits of kit out there but even my wife and kids manage to use the Sonos app so we’ve stuck with it.
Got a Richer Sounds anywhere near you? They’ll probably have some stuff you can listen to yourself.
Hoping to get into John Lewis on Sunday with the other half to at least look at some options.....
Might actually intially phone Richer Sounds tomo..
Not looking for pure hifi, as wont be using Tidal or similar, only Apple Music as a source, but it does at least need to sound *right*....
If music quality is the key and you find Sonos doesn’t hit the mark then take a look at bluesound/nad, nad has bluos enabled avr’s which work in conjunction with bluesound devices giving that Sonos like whole home sound.
Also for good home networking take a look at unifi dream machine or the tp-link Omada offerings for upgradable whole home systems
Also for good home networking take a look at unifi dream machine or the tp-link Omada offerings for upgradable whole home systems
The other thing to consider is integration - does a new Panasonic TV do AV control over HDMI properly, or is it proprietary, so you're stuck with their AV amps etc? And will Panasonic, or whoever keep their TV OS properly up to date as all the services you use evolve?
I have one of the newer Google Chromecasts with Google TV, which has a better streaming TV interface than any of the TVs you can buy, though I think the new setup is due to hit Android TV sometime. The point about updates probably still stands though.
Anyway, that device is connected over HDMI to an AV Amp, which then outputs to a projector and the sound to the 7.1 setup. It all works seamlessly off the Google remote control, even with the Chromecast and the AV amp in a cupboard and including power on/off, so you're not faffing with anything. In fact that works really well because the projector is turned on by IR from the power button on the remote rather than over HDMI, so if I cast music to the amplifier via the Chromecast it doesn't turn the projector on only for you to have to manually turn it off.
I don't think the digital HDMI output can downgrade the sound quality from a streaming service, so is there any improvement in buying an amplifier that does the streaming itself?
Chromecast gives you groups, so you can use any amplifier you want with it, they all do digital output, so I think your limit is going to be the streams themselves. I've no idea about lossless files stored on my server that I can play via Plex etc, perhaps there are better quality ways of playing those, but is that a factor for you? Chromecast now has add-hoc groups too, so I can bounce the music between devices properly if I move around the house.
I doubt anything else can really compete for value for money, particularly around your TV experience.
I have one of the newer Google Chromecasts with Google TV, which has a better streaming TV interface than any of the TVs you can buy, though I think the new setup is due to hit Android TV sometime. The point about updates probably still stands though.
Anyway, that device is connected over HDMI to an AV Amp, which then outputs to a projector and the sound to the 7.1 setup. It all works seamlessly off the Google remote control, even with the Chromecast and the AV amp in a cupboard and including power on/off, so you're not faffing with anything. In fact that works really well because the projector is turned on by IR from the power button on the remote rather than over HDMI, so if I cast music to the amplifier via the Chromecast it doesn't turn the projector on only for you to have to manually turn it off.
I don't think the digital HDMI output can downgrade the sound quality from a streaming service, so is there any improvement in buying an amplifier that does the streaming itself?
Chromecast gives you groups, so you can use any amplifier you want with it, they all do digital output, so I think your limit is going to be the streams themselves. I've no idea about lossless files stored on my server that I can play via Plex etc, perhaps there are better quality ways of playing those, but is that a factor for you? Chromecast now has add-hoc groups too, so I can bounce the music between devices properly if I move around the house.
I doubt anything else can really compete for value for money, particularly around your TV experience.
For music and wireless surround sound there is a new standard emerging with some big hifi have adopted.
WiSA.
Active wireless speakers, processors, hubs and even inceiling speakers.
Primare, System Audio, LG, Hisense and B&O have all adopted it and those that dont, there are USB dongles and hub that service the wireless requirements.
We are just getting hold of demo kit and there are some very interesting surround sound & atmos options in the pipeline.
WiSA.
Active wireless speakers, processors, hubs and even inceiling speakers.
Primare, System Audio, LG, Hisense and B&O have all adopted it and those that dont, there are USB dongles and hub that service the wireless requirements.
We are just getting hold of demo kit and there are some very interesting surround sound & atmos options in the pipeline.
You have loads of options, here's what I'd do - depends on your budget though.
1) Wifi around the house: Get a mesh wifi system. they work best if you hard-wire them together, but you don't have to. Two or three points depending on your house size. A few options out there - I like the google kit, but lots of people will advise you to go with one of the other two or three popular brands - all good options.
2) Big new TV, all have streaming now, so no need for the apple tv box. you can almost not go wrong as long as you get something new. Personally like samsung for price/quality ratio, but again your mileage may vary.
3) sound - two simple options here: Google cast or Sonos to do multi-room streaming. in the room with the TV, sonos beam (the TV sound bar) and a pair of sonos one speakers for the rears. It's wireless and pretty plug-and-play.
For other rooms, keep your B&W speakers and get either a Sonos AMP (pricy but integrates with their system really well) or a chromecast audio and make it possible to stream music to that. Or buy other standalone speakers.
then get an apple music or Spotify subscription and you're set. with a google home or an alexa, you can use voice commands to stream music around the house.
1) Wifi around the house: Get a mesh wifi system. they work best if you hard-wire them together, but you don't have to. Two or three points depending on your house size. A few options out there - I like the google kit, but lots of people will advise you to go with one of the other two or three popular brands - all good options.
2) Big new TV, all have streaming now, so no need for the apple tv box. you can almost not go wrong as long as you get something new. Personally like samsung for price/quality ratio, but again your mileage may vary.
3) sound - two simple options here: Google cast or Sonos to do multi-room streaming. in the room with the TV, sonos beam (the TV sound bar) and a pair of sonos one speakers for the rears. It's wireless and pretty plug-and-play.
For other rooms, keep your B&W speakers and get either a Sonos AMP (pricy but integrates with their system really well) or a chromecast audio and make it possible to stream music to that. Or buy other standalone speakers.
then get an apple music or Spotify subscription and you're set. with a google home or an alexa, you can use voice commands to stream music around the house.
This isn't going to give the OP an easy answer and I wouldn't normally post in reply to one of these threads, but...
Firstly, if history is anything to go by, I wouldn't be putting my faith in the TV having all the app functionality you are looking for. It might work ok when you buy it, but how long are you realistically wanting to keep it for? If only a couple of years and you'll be buying the next latest TV then fine, but expect the various apps to remain pretty much static in terms of functionality upgrades, and eventually stop working altogether as the TV manufacturers really don't have any incentive in keeping the apps updated. We're still running a 55" Panasonic plasma (VT50) - picture is brilliant, but none of the apps on it work (not even the web browser), but that's ok as we never used them anyway. All functionality from other boxes - Apple TV, Sky box, Fire stick etc..
The main point I have (and more in general, so not just aimed at the OP), is that I really, really cannot understand stuff like:
How big of a deal is it really to have an amp and speakers? You can certainly do a lot to conceal the wiring - for example, we have a pair of floorstanders either side of the TV for left and right channels in a 5.1 setup, but also as a very high quality stereo hifi for listening to music. The wires go through the floor directly under the speakers and run through some plastic drainpipe I installed under the floor, coming out at the back of the amp rack. Rear satellite speaker cables also go under the floor. It's not hard to chase the wires into the wall either so they can be mounted on the rear wall and appear to be "wireless".
With regard to the OP - you've indicated that you enjoy listening to music, and the fact you have a separates amp and decent speakers re-enforces this. If you go for something like Sonos "wireless" speakers, you will regret it every time you put on some music. It may be ok for someone who's used to listening to music from a little portable radio, but coming from a decent setup, the difference will be like night and day. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you actually stop listening to music as it WILL sound crap.
In terms of getting music to different rooms, Sonos works pretty well (if a bit expensive - there are alternatives), in fact we have Sonos in 4 different rooms and can stream Spotify and Amazon music to it, but more importantly also play high quality (FLAC) rips of our 1000+ CD collection stored on an external HDD (in our case a networked NAS). In each room, we only use the Sonos as the streaming device (now called Sonos Port) - digital output into a separate DAC, then to amp and speakers. A while ago, we had a listen to some Sonos speakers - Sonos 5 so supposedly their "hi fi" offering. Mrs CnC and I both thought they were absolute rubbish and wouldn't go near them for £100 never mind the ridiculous £500 they were asking for them. I guess I'm fortunate that Mrs CnC also enoys listening to music and can tell the difference between the sound from a decent hifi and something that just plays music - it's the reason she ended up with JH Audio JH16 custom IEMs rather than something like Apple earbuds as she wanted her portable music to (and I quote) "sound as good as the hifi at home".
It's obviously entirely up to you, but have you actually sat down and chatted with your other half and explained the compromises she is asking you to make for the sake of getting rid of a couple of wires and a couple of electronics boxes?
Firstly, if history is anything to go by, I wouldn't be putting my faith in the TV having all the app functionality you are looking for. It might work ok when you buy it, but how long are you realistically wanting to keep it for? If only a couple of years and you'll be buying the next latest TV then fine, but expect the various apps to remain pretty much static in terms of functionality upgrades, and eventually stop working altogether as the TV manufacturers really don't have any incentive in keeping the apps updated. We're still running a 55" Panasonic plasma (VT50) - picture is brilliant, but none of the apps on it work (not even the web browser), but that's ok as we never used them anyway. All functionality from other boxes - Apple TV, Sky box, Fire stick etc..
The main point I have (and more in general, so not just aimed at the OP), is that I really, really cannot understand stuff like:
- "Mrs Xxx wants just the tv and no other boxes"
- "Mrs Xxx wants the speakers to be wireless (by the way, they still need to be plugged in to some power don't they, unless you're going for a battery powered option which will need charging regularly)?
- "Mrs Xxx doesn't want decent sized speakers in the room"
- "Mrs Xxx doesn't want an amplifier"
- "Mrs Xxx doesn't want the music on a HDD so I guess I'll have to rent it via a streaming service now"
How big of a deal is it really to have an amp and speakers? You can certainly do a lot to conceal the wiring - for example, we have a pair of floorstanders either side of the TV for left and right channels in a 5.1 setup, but also as a very high quality stereo hifi for listening to music. The wires go through the floor directly under the speakers and run through some plastic drainpipe I installed under the floor, coming out at the back of the amp rack. Rear satellite speaker cables also go under the floor. It's not hard to chase the wires into the wall either so they can be mounted on the rear wall and appear to be "wireless".
With regard to the OP - you've indicated that you enjoy listening to music, and the fact you have a separates amp and decent speakers re-enforces this. If you go for something like Sonos "wireless" speakers, you will regret it every time you put on some music. It may be ok for someone who's used to listening to music from a little portable radio, but coming from a decent setup, the difference will be like night and day. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you actually stop listening to music as it WILL sound crap.
In terms of getting music to different rooms, Sonos works pretty well (if a bit expensive - there are alternatives), in fact we have Sonos in 4 different rooms and can stream Spotify and Amazon music to it, but more importantly also play high quality (FLAC) rips of our 1000+ CD collection stored on an external HDD (in our case a networked NAS). In each room, we only use the Sonos as the streaming device (now called Sonos Port) - digital output into a separate DAC, then to amp and speakers. A while ago, we had a listen to some Sonos speakers - Sonos 5 so supposedly their "hi fi" offering. Mrs CnC and I both thought they were absolute rubbish and wouldn't go near them for £100 never mind the ridiculous £500 they were asking for them. I guess I'm fortunate that Mrs CnC also enoys listening to music and can tell the difference between the sound from a decent hifi and something that just plays music - it's the reason she ended up with JH Audio JH16 custom IEMs rather than something like Apple earbuds as she wanted her portable music to (and I quote) "sound as good as the hifi at home".
It's obviously entirely up to you, but have you actually sat down and chatted with your other half and explained the compromises she is asking you to make for the sake of getting rid of a couple of wires and a couple of electronics boxes?
Edited by C n C on Saturday 17th April 16:20
Cnc, Thank yuu for the post.
You raise some interesting points...
Right now, I cannot create a case for keeping my old set up as I genuinely dont know what is available.
We are going to see Richersounds tomo, and IM hoping to both get a better understanding and frighten the crap out of her re Budget for sonos etc...
Based on what I know right now, and this wil hopefully improve tomo, I suspect that Sonos port into my amp and speakers plus something that will play in the kitchen is the answer.......
Also, Vex, thanks, I know this is your area, but I dont think we have the budget that are used to working with....
You raise some interesting points...
Right now, I cannot create a case for keeping my old set up as I genuinely dont know what is available.
We are going to see Richersounds tomo, and IM hoping to both get a better understanding and frighten the crap out of her re Budget for sonos etc...
Based on what I know right now, and this wil hopefully improve tomo, I suspect that Sonos port into my amp and speakers plus something that will play in the kitchen is the answer.......
Also, Vex, thanks, I know this is your area, but I dont think we have the budget that are used to working with....
VEX said:
Try me!
Personally i have started to Hate Sonos and would love to swap over to BlueSound BluOS as it is a bit more open as a standard with several manufacturers adopting it.
The WiSA stuff is very interesting, its a kind of 'watch this space' over the next few years
If/when I actually know and understand what I need, then for sure, I will......Personally i have started to Hate Sonos and would love to swap over to BlueSound BluOS as it is a bit more open as a standard with several manufacturers adopting it.
The WiSA stuff is very interesting, its a kind of 'watch this space' over the next few years
I've gone for Apple Music, a Homepod and a Homepod Mini since I've been working from home. My TV also has an Apple Music app.
For their size they sound far better than they should, especially the Mini. If you're going for Apple Music just get a Mini, or two, for places like the kitchen.
For their size they sound far better than they should, especially the Mini. If you're going for Apple Music just get a Mini, or two, for places like the kitchen.
We have Sonos in the house and I have to say for me (as a 50 year old) the sound is excellent. I have separates as well, but only use my turntable now for stuff I can't get on digital.
Just thieved our Samsung 4K TV for my PS5 in another room, and bought a Hisense 55" for our occasional TV watching. The streaming is lacking frankly - no More4 for a start; I ended up buying a 4K Alexa widget which has solved that issue, but now have a problem with the Sonos only having optical output and if I plug it into the TV it lags slightly, and the TV only offers lag correction on one direction and it seems to be thew wrong one, so I have had to plug it directly into the Sky box so no Sonos for non-Sky stuff. Argh!
Just thieved our Samsung 4K TV for my PS5 in another room, and bought a Hisense 55" for our occasional TV watching. The streaming is lacking frankly - no More4 for a start; I ended up buying a 4K Alexa widget which has solved that issue, but now have a problem with the Sonos only having optical output and if I plug it into the TV it lags slightly, and the TV only offers lag correction on one direction and it seems to be thew wrong one, so I have had to plug it directly into the Sky box so no Sonos for non-Sky stuff. Argh!
UPDATE.....
Having read all the info on here and scoured the internet, I had a more informed chat with the other half....
Upshot is, she doesnt hate the speakers/amp, just wants them to look prettier.....
So, we are looking at either some Atacama speakers stands or maybe some better Hifi racks stands.
This means the NAD is staying, and we have decided to curtail the Sonos thing for now.
So for now, the kitchen gets an Echo Dot 4, I get to keep my seperates, and we even agreed on a new TV.....
I apparently will need a digital to analog convertor to run the NAD, any thoughts on which one ?
Have this being delivered on Saturday...
https://www.johnlewis.com/samsung-qe50q65t-2020-ql...
Possibly these stands...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/MOSECO-Medium-Bamboo-Spea...
Only thing IM not sure on now is what mesh kit...
Looked at these...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deco-M9-Plus-Coverage-Ant...
Having read all the info on here and scoured the internet, I had a more informed chat with the other half....
Upshot is, she doesnt hate the speakers/amp, just wants them to look prettier.....
So, we are looking at either some Atacama speakers stands or maybe some better Hifi racks stands.
This means the NAD is staying, and we have decided to curtail the Sonos thing for now.
So for now, the kitchen gets an Echo Dot 4, I get to keep my seperates, and we even agreed on a new TV.....
I apparently will need a digital to analog convertor to run the NAD, any thoughts on which one ?
Have this being delivered on Saturday...
https://www.johnlewis.com/samsung-qe50q65t-2020-ql...
Possibly these stands...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/MOSECO-Medium-Bamboo-Spea...
Only thing IM not sure on now is what mesh kit...
Looked at these...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deco-M9-Plus-Coverage-Ant...
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