Stolen mobile phones
Discussion
Daughter's friend's phone stolen in a club up in Liverpool yesterday and ex wife had hers stolen last night whilst at a Christmas do in London.
Call me a bit dim but what with PINs, fingerprint and face unlocking, what use is a stolen phone?
Also don't the phone companies have the ability to brick the units once they have been informed of the theft?
Just intrigued.
Call me a bit dim but what with PINs, fingerprint and face unlocking, what use is a stolen phone?
Also don't the phone companies have the ability to brick the units once they have been informed of the theft?
Just intrigued.
Yeah they can be bricked from all networks so cannot be used. Parts can be resold but then you’re competing with the billions of other phones at the end of life or broken so there’s not a huge market for either. Is it possible they were lost? Assume they’ve tried whatever ‘find my’ app is installed?
In the case of the ex wife, she was sat at a table in a bar when approached by an aggressive beggar showing her pictures of starving children.
Her phone was on the table and gone when the guy left her. He'd put a jacket on the table to cover it.
Which begs the next question, why do women (mainly) leave their phones on the tables or bars when out?
Oh, and then begs another question, why is my ex wife's phone £800 and probably her 4th in 4 years whilst mine was £200 and I've had it 4 years
Her phone was on the table and gone when the guy left her. He'd put a jacket on the table to cover it.
Which begs the next question, why do women (mainly) leave their phones on the tables or bars when out?
Oh, and then begs another question, why is my ex wife's phone £800 and probably her 4th in 4 years whilst mine was £200 and I've had it 4 years
As mentioned I believe when reported stolen they only get barred in the UK. Maybe that's changed and includes a few other countries too.
They will only be barred using the devices Mac address or serial number. I bet there is a way to spoof or change these either with software or by changing a relatively cheap part.
I would also bet that somewhere out there is a method for forcing a factory reset on a locked phone.
They will only be barred using the devices Mac address or serial number. I bet there is a way to spoof or change these either with software or by changing a relatively cheap part.
I would also bet that somewhere out there is a method for forcing a factory reset on a locked phone.
bigandclever said:
sebdangerfield said:
Yeah they can be bricked from all networks so cannot be used.
Not globally though.croyde said:
In the case of the ex wife, she was sat at a table in a bar when approached by an aggressive beggar showing her pictures of starving children.
Her phone was on the table and gone when the guy left her. He'd put a jacket on the table to cover it.
Which begs the next question, why do women (mainly) leave their phones on the tables or bars when out?
Various reasons, quite often it's too big to fit into their pockets (if they even have any) and it's also a kind of denial, they don't want to have to put their phone away out of sight so they just pretend to themselves that it's alright to leave it out in the open. When it isn't.Her phone was on the table and gone when the guy left her. He'd put a jacket on the table to cover it.
Which begs the next question, why do women (mainly) leave their phones on the tables or bars when out?
If it's an iPhone, set up 2-factor identification, enable find my phone, and if it's stolen, lock it remotely from the app. Nobody will be able to use it or unlock it, even if the phone ends up abroad. Even state agencies seem to find Apple encryption rather difficult to crack so I doubt your average street mugger could. It would probably be sold on eBay/Facebook to an unsuspecting customer who gets a bricked phone after being parted from several hundred pounds.
It's important for Apple to make it look as if they are trying hard to prevent phone theft. In reality though, what does a stolen phone mean to them? It means another sale when the phone is replaced (quite probably with a newer, more expensive and more profitable phone).
Same thing with phone repairs. Simple fault, taken to the manufacturer's shop, sorry, it will cost too much to repair, best to trade it in for a new phone,
Same thing with phone repairs. Simple fault, taken to the manufacturer's shop, sorry, it will cost too much to repair, best to trade it in for a new phone,
They’re doing pretty well. At least I can’t see any more they can do. Your average criminal doesn’t have access to software like Cellebrite and Graykey and even with those some can’t be unlocked until software catches up. In some circumstances It can be many months to unlock even a phone that’s a couple of years old.
In terms of flashing a new IMEI it’s not anywhere as simple as that suggested. You’d need an broken phone in the first place or deep knowledge of j tag or chip off techniques. If you had that you’d make much more money working in Israel than selling dodgy phones. Even my digital forensics staff are on £80-£100k and that’s nowhere near the big money you can get from someone like Cellebrite.
Then even if uploading the IMEI was easy for you. You’d need to match the TAC and possibly FAC then Luhn digit along with the software number for each phone to have a remote chance of being accepted by the networks HLR.
When you think you could just flog it on eBay for the price of a working second hand device and then take your money and run it seems hard work to flash phones to sell.
In terms of flashing a new IMEI it’s not anywhere as simple as that suggested. You’d need an broken phone in the first place or deep knowledge of j tag or chip off techniques. If you had that you’d make much more money working in Israel than selling dodgy phones. Even my digital forensics staff are on £80-£100k and that’s nowhere near the big money you can get from someone like Cellebrite.
Then even if uploading the IMEI was easy for you. You’d need to match the TAC and possibly FAC then Luhn digit along with the software number for each phone to have a remote chance of being accepted by the networks HLR.
When you think you could just flog it on eBay for the price of a working second hand device and then take your money and run it seems hard work to flash phones to sell.
Joey Deacon said:
I assume some iPhones are sold to repair shops and broken for parts to repair other phones?
If it is one of the later models many of the parts won't work anyway - there was a YouTube video where a guy swapped the screens of 2 brand new iPhone 12s and the phone would not accept the new screen...Generally when a phone is stolen the thief will try to gain access via "phishing" emails to the owner. A friends son had his iPhone stolen, it was "iCloud" locked and the thief did not have the pin. What happened next was the thief removed the sim and put it in his own phone, to retrieve the owners telephone number. The thief then tried the number in a few well know sites, one of which is Facebook. using the phone number and facebooks flawed recovery the their got access to the owners Facebook account and used info on there to try "phishing" for the iCloud unlock & pin passwords.
Within 10 minutes of having the phone stolen his girlfriend had. received a message from the thief via Facebook asking for the pin; luckily they were together and he didn't fall for it.
It is a P.I.T.A. but I would recommend enabling a SIM-PIN to strengthen security. Although most modern phones don't store anything on the SIM, the phone number itself can be useful to a thief doe to some sites poor security practices.
Apple recently added a new feature which allows "Find My Phone" to continue working even if the phone is turned off which can help with tracking I (but even if you know who has it getting it back probably wont be easy)
bigandclever said:
sebdangerfield said:
snip..
there’s a lot of work in steeling a phone, shipping it and setting it up again to make it unlikely
Here's a selection of 1000 seized in one raid last year in Hackney, bagged, tagged and ready for shipment overseas. One bloke was arrested.there’s a lot of work in steeling a phone, shipping it and setting it up again to make it unlikely
The expert witness evidence notes,
handsomeexpertwitness said:
“…the moped robberies are becoming more prevalent compared to devices stolen via non violent acquisitive crime as the devices can be much more easily disposed of by gangs when compared to theft of locked devices….
handsomeexpertwitness said:
…They have a higher intrinsic value if they’re stolen whilst the device is unlocked and that’s why we’re seeing a rise in organised gangs appear to be targeting victims on their devices not just because the victim is less aware of their surroundings but because a device which is already unlocked can have a far wider reaching criminal value such as the easily accessed data on the device and not limited to the device’s intrinsic value, which is also higher as a result of the device being more easily cloned and resold if they’re already unlocked when compared to it being a laborious and incredibly difficult task if they’re locked…
handsomeexpertwitness said:
…In my view it’s a similar change in OCG nature as we’ve seen in the rise of car key burglaries in acquisitive crime due to the more robust security measures vehicle manufacturers have introduced.”
Incidentally I was the expert witness for that job. So yeah, I appreciate it does happen, hence why I used the word unlikely but as the OP’s devices were stolen from a table and he’s not mentioned a robbery I’m going to stick with unlikely. Again, just interested.
If stolen whilst the victim is using the phone, it's only unlocked for a few seconds, I'm guessing then the perp has some way to instantly access the menu to stop it locking, all whilst running away or sitting on the back of a badly ridden moped.
If I don't use mine for 20 secs, it could be 10 secs, it locks itself.
All mute points as they are obviously worth something or they wouldn't bother.
Spoke to my ex earlier, it's insured with a £100 excess, thus another £800 phone ordered. Nuts! I'd never spend more than a couple of hundred on a phone.
The bigger worry is that if they can access the phone so easily, what about the countless apps that will have the owners card, account and other details on the phone.
If stolen whilst the victim is using the phone, it's only unlocked for a few seconds, I'm guessing then the perp has some way to instantly access the menu to stop it locking, all whilst running away or sitting on the back of a badly ridden moped.
If I don't use mine for 20 secs, it could be 10 secs, it locks itself.
All mute points as they are obviously worth something or they wouldn't bother.
Spoke to my ex earlier, it's insured with a £100 excess, thus another £800 phone ordered. Nuts! I'd never spend more than a couple of hundred on a phone.
The bigger worry is that if they can access the phone so easily, what about the countless apps that will have the owners card, account and other details on the phone.
croyde said:
Again, just interested.
If stolen whilst the victim is using the phone, it's only unlocked for a few seconds, I'm guessing then the perp has some way to instantly access the menu to stop it locking, all whilst running away or sitting on the back of a badly ridden moped.
If I don't use mine for 20 secs, it could be 10 secs, it locks itself.
All mute points as they are obviously worth something or they wouldn't bother.
Spoke to my ex earlier, it's insured with a £100 excess, thus another £800 phone ordered. Nuts! I'd never spend more than a couple of hundred on a phone.
The bigger worry is that if they can access the phone so easily, what about the countless apps that will have the owners card, account and other details on the phone.
By default iOS auto lock is 2 minutes. To change it it’s 3 taps, settings>Display & brightness>Auto lock I think the minimum you can set an iPhone to is 30s, android probably less. If stolen whilst the victim is using the phone, it's only unlocked for a few seconds, I'm guessing then the perp has some way to instantly access the menu to stop it locking, all whilst running away or sitting on the back of a badly ridden moped.
If I don't use mine for 20 secs, it could be 10 secs, it locks itself.
All mute points as they are obviously worth something or they wouldn't bother.
Spoke to my ex earlier, it's insured with a £100 excess, thus another £800 phone ordered. Nuts! I'd never spend more than a couple of hundred on a phone.
The bigger worry is that if they can access the phone so easily, what about the countless apps that will have the owners card, account and other details on the phone.
When I’ve looked into phone extractions to see data around the times of offences like moped thefts it was clear some were changing settings to disable auto lock, some would open YouTube and play a video.
I agree with the price of phones. People are always surprised when I use such a s
t phone. Mines probably worth £100 and my work phone’s a Nokia 106 drug dealer special 
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 8th December 15:13
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