Cat5e, Cat6, UTP, S/FTP...?

[RizzoTheRat]

I'm planning on replacing some old unused phone cables in the house with ethernet through the existing ducting that runs from the services cupboard to several rooms in the house.

I think think I have a plan for how to lay them (vacuum cleaner to find out which duct it is, use the old phone cable to haul a pull wire through, then run a pair of cables through each duct), and how to connect them (wall sockets or possibly a small patch panel in the services cupboard), but I'm unsure which cable to use.

Presumably I may as well for go for Cat 6 rather than Cat 5e for future proofing purposes, but are they much fatter than 5e? How small a duct can I run a pair of Cat 6 through?

I assume for a 10-20m run through ducting I want solid cores rather than stranded as I don't need a lot of flexibility?

How much difference does shielding make? 100m of Cat 6 cable seems to be about €40 for UTP or €60 for S/FTP (ECA, PiMF whatever that means). Is the shielding worth spending a bit more for, and how much thicker does it make the cable?

[Mr Pointy]

This question comes up quite regularly & will always result in two polarised camps: group A will say 5e is adequate for 99% of domestic installtions & group B will ask why you aren't putting in Cat 7.

I'm in group A. 5e is thin, flexible, relatively easy to make off & will easily support gigabit connections over the distance you are talking about. Sheilding doesn't hurt to have but as long as you aren't running the cables past an aircon unit or similar probably doesn't make any significant difference.

6 or 6a is significantly thicker & stiffer due to the internal plastic separator & unless you use compatible hardware & learn how to make it off correctly you won't see the benfit anyway. The one place it can be needed is if you are doing any HDMI over Cat extensions & in those cases the additional bandwidth is needed.

Use good quality solid core (copper, not CCA) cable & make it off to keystone jacks each end - you'll make a better connection than trying to punch down the cores. For me the choices would go 5e>6a>5e STP. Put 6a in by all means but be prepared for a bit more work.

[sjg]

^ this - I'm also in group A.

No point spending the extra on cat6 or better cable unless you're also doing cat6 patch panel, modules, etc and installing/testing to standard.

Cat5e will do 10Gb anyway on domestic length runs if you did ever need it, and besides with ducting it would be easy to swap over anyway.

[RizzoTheRat]

7's not a consideration, way too thick, stiff and overkill, but I can't help thinking if I'm laying new cables now I should fit better than I need, hence wondering about 6. But then again I take the point it should be fairly easy to replace them again at a later date if really needed. So if I was going to go better than 5e it should be 6a rather than 6 then? Most online sites seem to suggest 6 is the standard, but then again I am on pretty short runs compared to an office environment.

Mr Pointy said:

make it off to keystone jacks each end - you'll make a better connection than trying to punch down the cores.

Can you elaborate on that bit please? I've crimped plugs on the end of Cat5 years ago but otherwise have very little experience of this stuff. I'd been thinking maybe something like this in the services cupboard and dual wall sockets in the rooms, depending on how many I'm able to run (I think I should be able to run cables to 3 rooms so may as well do 2 to each)
(in Dutch but you get the idea)
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/1250846453...

ETA: Ah, think I understand, keystone is a socket that attaches to the cable and then clips in to a housing in the wall plate or a patch panel frame yet? Just found a 6 port keystone patch panel that looks idea, but would need a specific type of wall faceplates or are they all keystone?

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Thursday 13th January 11:52

[Captain_Morgan]

I’m in camp A, with 2.5gb & 5gb Ethernet standards gaining traction, both of which will work with cat5e and in your case where you have cable routes that are easy to pull more cable through there is no need for cat6a

There are also many reports of folk getting 10gb from 5e over shorter <35m distances

Ensure you use a good quality solid copper core cat5e cable

Keystones are much or a muchness so buy the faceplates and panel you like but I’d also buy the keystones / cable from the same suppliers just in case there are issues

Second thoughts as you are only doing three runs of two I’d just use 2-way face plates at each end and use surface mount boxes in the cable closet for ease of installation

https://www.kenable.co.uk/en/networking/network-ac...

Surface back box
https://www.kenable.co.uk/en/networking/network-ac...

Edited by Captain_Morgan on Thursday 13th January 12:20

Edited by Captain_Morgan on Thursday 13th January 12:22

[Mr Pointy]

Maybe I should have said Tool-less Keystone like these:
https://www.comms-express.com/categories/excel-but...
https://www.cablemonkey.co.uk/cat6a-modules-outlet...

Dead easy to use & you're quite likely to end up with a connector that works to spec. They are bit more expensive but you aren't doing a whole office building so the overall cost difference isn't great.

Your link doesn't work for me so I'm not sure what it was showing. Unfortunately the range of products that take the tool-less keystones isn't as wide as the punch down type so you might end up going with punch down.

[RizzoTheRat]

I had originally thought to use double faceplates in the cupboard but then saw that patch panels are pretty cheap, I've now found a 6 port one that takes keystones for €9 which sounds ideal as it would be a bit more compact than 3 surface mount back boxes, but I'll have a measure to see which works better when accounting for the direction of cables.

Like the idea of tool-less keystones, I'll look in to them, biggest problem is working out what things are called in Dutch so I can search for the right things A collogue has offered to lend me a crimping tool though, I assume it's the same tool needed for keystones as for plugs?

Sounds like everyone recommends Cat5e then, I guess for the small difference in price I may as well go for shielded, but don't think it's likely to pass by anything that causes much interference except possibly the fridge freezer depending which way the ducting goes around the kitchen

[eliot]

whatever you choose make sure it’s made from copper not copper coated aluminium (cca). All those cheap boxes of cable on ebay are all cca. Genuine cat6 used to be about £70 10 years ago and the fake stuff about £35.

Just searching now and the fake stuff is £50 read the description - it states CCA, sometimes they omit it or bury it vaguely in the description. CCA isn’t certified for any CATx std:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jedel-305M-Cat6-RJ45-Et...

I made a video about it and other types of wire you might use around a house during a refurb:

[RizzoTheRat]

Ah, that would explain the difference between the €30 stuff and the €50+ stuff, thanks.

So Cat5e, F/UTP, 100% copper, solid core. Sound right?

The same supplier sells packs of Cat 5e/Cat6 keystones (not tool-less though), patch panel housing and faceplates from the same manufacturer (Procable) so should fit together, and a colleague can lend me a crimping tool. I'll have a search for tool-less keystones later but not seen any yet.

[troc]

Go cat 5e. Cat 6 is a pain in the arse to pull through complex ducting, which is quite possible in Dutch houses as the builders mostly suck (ask me how I know )

[eliot]

I ran cat6 in my house - but it was a self build. I use(abuse?) the cat6 for other purposes such as temperature sensors (1-wire), rs232 and even an alarm control panel - so the thicker wire found in cat6 means less voltage drop.
Someone also mentioned hdmi extenders - this is true, they prefer the thicker wire - they dont actually run the ethernet protocol as such, just uses the qualities if twisted pair.

[RizzoTheRat]

One of my colleagues offered me some Cat7 left over from his recent renovation...I declined

[Mr Pointy]

eliot said:

I ran cat6 in my house - but it was a self build. I use(abuse?) the cat6 for other purposes such as temperature sensors (1-wire), rs232 and even an alarm control panel - so the thicker wire found in cat6 means less voltage drop.
Someone also mentioned hdmi extenders - this is true, they prefer the thicker wire - they dont actually run the ethernet protocol as such, just uses the qualities if twisted pair.

The point about thicker gauge wire is true & one I missed off. If you are doing PoE over any reasonable distance then the more copper you have the better so 6a & 7 can be useful for that.

[RizzoTheRat]

Unlikely to need POE, not planning to go mad on IT equipment, main reason for wanting the cables is to put wifi access points around he house as the walls/floors seem to be designed to withstand nuclear attack.

I did wonder about HDMI over ethernet to let us watch the occasional thing from the kitchen, but our cable provider has an app to watch live online so we can do that on a tablet.

[moonigan]

RizzoTheRat said:

I did wonder about HDMI over ethernet to let us watch the occasional thing from the kitchen, but our cable provider has an app to watch live online so we can do that on a tablet.

Apologies for hijack but has anyone run HDMI over ethernet via Powerline adapters with any success?

[drmotorsport]

If you're DIYing then go with CAT5e as it's capable enough to handle most domestic requirements and saves the hassle of bend radiuses and terminating requirements.

[shtu]

I also fall into the 5e camp.

6 and above is great in a newbuild or data centre where you can design in loads of space for it. In the average home retrofit, you're threading the stuff wherever you can.

Yes, someone will come along and tell us how essential cat18w is to ensure we're future-proofed, but ask yourself,

How long will you live there? Odds are you give yourself a massive headache, maybe for somebody else's benefit in 20 years time. Assuming that 802.75z hasn't come along in the meantime and made cable connections irrelevant for most.

(I may have made those standards up)

[eliot]

RizzoTheRat said:

Unlikely to need POE, not planning to go mad on IT equipment, main reason for wanting the cables is to put wifi access points around he house .

PoE for access points is probably the number one use case - because you don’t want to be running 13a sockets up the wall

[somouk]

Another vote for 5e, no need for anything beyond that in the home unless you have some very specific high bandwidth usages.

[troc]

eliot said:

RizzoTheRat said:

Unlikely to need POE, not planning to go mad on IT equipment, main reason for wanting the cables is to put wifi access points around he house .

PoE for access points is probably the number one use case - because you don’t want to be running 13a sockets up the wall

I run PoE+ to power a couple of 8-port switches, 3 APs and some cameras and raspberry pi’s. Some of those are over 20+ m runs of cat 5e without any issues. I hate wall warts and try to reduce plugs wherever I can.