I was assuming the worst but is got worser
Discussion
Some of you may have been aware that a while back I started a community project to distribute broadband internet access via Wireless LAN.
Well, we ran into some trouble a month or so ago when the trees put on a spurt of summer growth and one link in the chain became at best unreliable but genreally utterly dead.
Bear in mind here that this is rural Ireland and getting line of site around trees and still being able to mount antennas and get power to the equipment is extemely troublesome.
So we had a chain of five radio links carrying traffic upto my old man's house about 4km away, around a big hill and over a valley.
Given the problems with one node in the chain not getting through a clump of trees I began to make arrangements to install another node to dog leg round the problem.
It took weeks of making enquirires and contacting the owner of the building I needed to do an install at. Incidently they appear to only live here about 6-12 weeks a year. Finally this weekend I managed to hook up with him and install the node.
Everything came to life, and my old fella was over the moon at having his internet connection back.
So, imagine my surprise this morning to discvoer the link had failed again. This time at the new node I'd just installed. We'd had a night of torrential rain and I was assuming the worst that water had ingressed into the antenna connectors and was causing a short.
Oh, how I wish it was something so troublesome. Nope, turns out ya fella's wife at this new location finally saw the mast and antenna and some how has decided that it is the reason she couldn't sleep last night, and so had to get up at 3am to turn it off, and point blank refuses to allow it to be turned on again.
For some reason she's got it into her head that this is like a phone mast and she's being radiated.
No amount of explanation that her microwave oven and mobile phone are emitting more radiation has worked to alleviate her concerns. Not matter how I explained that the reason the antenna is so big is because the power has to legally be so low... I despair....
The fella is just shrugging his shoulders and is evidently uncomfortable with the situation but not prepared to try and talk her round.
She really is a proper Irish battle-axe - I knew within moments of meeting her that her mind was made up and there was nothing I could do.
The whole project is looking fucked.
They've given me permission to move the installation about 100 metres away onto a shed in their field, but there is a slim chance that it will work from this location as all the angles change. Different trees come into play and get this, instead of having a high gain omni antenna radiating in a thin disc above their garage they now want it moving to a location directly in line with their conservatory where they will be getting the full force of the beam straight in their faces when they watch T.V.
Worst still, from this location their house is in direct line with the next node up the valley. I can't go round, can't go through, only chance is to go over the top which means big poles attracting big attention from other stupid ignorant bitches.
God I'm annoyed.
best
Ex
Well, we ran into some trouble a month or so ago when the trees put on a spurt of summer growth and one link in the chain became at best unreliable but genreally utterly dead.
Bear in mind here that this is rural Ireland and getting line of site around trees and still being able to mount antennas and get power to the equipment is extemely troublesome.
So we had a chain of five radio links carrying traffic upto my old man's house about 4km away, around a big hill and over a valley.
Given the problems with one node in the chain not getting through a clump of trees I began to make arrangements to install another node to dog leg round the problem.
It took weeks of making enquirires and contacting the owner of the building I needed to do an install at. Incidently they appear to only live here about 6-12 weeks a year. Finally this weekend I managed to hook up with him and install the node.
Everything came to life, and my old fella was over the moon at having his internet connection back.
So, imagine my surprise this morning to discvoer the link had failed again. This time at the new node I'd just installed. We'd had a night of torrential rain and I was assuming the worst that water had ingressed into the antenna connectors and was causing a short.
Oh, how I wish it was something so troublesome. Nope, turns out ya fella's wife at this new location finally saw the mast and antenna and some how has decided that it is the reason she couldn't sleep last night, and so had to get up at 3am to turn it off, and point blank refuses to allow it to be turned on again.
For some reason she's got it into her head that this is like a phone mast and she's being radiated.
No amount of explanation that her microwave oven and mobile phone are emitting more radiation has worked to alleviate her concerns. Not matter how I explained that the reason the antenna is so big is because the power has to legally be so low... I despair....
The fella is just shrugging his shoulders and is evidently uncomfortable with the situation but not prepared to try and talk her round.
She really is a proper Irish battle-axe - I knew within moments of meeting her that her mind was made up and there was nothing I could do.
The whole project is looking fucked.
They've given me permission to move the installation about 100 metres away onto a shed in their field, but there is a slim chance that it will work from this location as all the angles change. Different trees come into play and get this, instead of having a high gain omni antenna radiating in a thin disc above their garage they now want it moving to a location directly in line with their conservatory where they will be getting the full force of the beam straight in their faces when they watch T.V.
Worst still, from this location their house is in direct line with the next node up the valley. I can't go round, can't go through, only chance is to go over the top which means big poles attracting big attention from other stupid ignorant bitches.
God I'm annoyed.
best
Ex
g stupid Bummer!
How about some sort of remote repeater? Something like a pole with antenna on top, weatherproof box to house the electronics (and also keeping the cable run as short as possible) and a power supply consisting of windmill/photocells/battery backup. Not cheap, but would likely work for you if you've got a good spot.
I think the most expensive item would be the windmill, something like this I've not looked for anything cheaper, just found that to give you some idea. Solar panels can be had quite cheaply as well.
Phil
edit to add: This
>> Edited by philthy on Thursday 18th August 17:29
How about some sort of remote repeater? Something like a pole with antenna on top, weatherproof box to house the electronics (and also keeping the cable run as short as possible) and a power supply consisting of windmill/photocells/battery backup. Not cheap, but would likely work for you if you've got a good spot.
I think the most expensive item would be the windmill, something like this I've not looked for anything cheaper, just found that to give you some idea. Solar panels can be had quite cheaply as well.
Phil
edit to add: This
>> Edited by philthy on Thursday 18th August 17:29
JamieBeeston said:
If they are only there for 8-12 weeks a yr, then can you not just 'put up' with it being down when they are back ? and just leave it be for now...
Might be an 'easier' solution in the long term.
J
Unfortunately, not really an option when people are talking of ditching their dial-up links in favour of this system.
Are you selling this as a business? or just doing it out of the goodness of your heart?
If the latter, then people need to accept the short comings.
If the former, then obviosuly you need to fix this asap by whatever means neccesary (flowers / chocolates / comp'd meal at a local popsh nosh establishment + free WiFi etc.)
Considered a little 'peer pressure' from the neighbours to the woman? or just rent a chainsaw and 'have away' with the pesky new tree growth?
there are many simple solutions if you REALLY want to make this work..
there are a few less solutions if you want to make it work OFFICIALLY (ie with permission from council to lop down trees instead of a midnight jaunt!)
J
If the latter, then people need to accept the short comings.
If the former, then obviosuly you need to fix this asap by whatever means neccesary (flowers / chocolates / comp'd meal at a local popsh nosh establishment + free WiFi etc.)
Considered a little 'peer pressure' from the neighbours to the woman? or just rent a chainsaw and 'have away' with the pesky new tree growth?
there are many simple solutions if you REALLY want to make this work..
there are a few less solutions if you want to make it work OFFICIALLY (ie with permission from council to lop down trees instead of a midnight jaunt!)
J
A further thought occurs, If you could make the hop with one remote wind/solar powered repeater, how many links will that save you?
200w generator £250 ish? a couple of deepcycle batteries £80?. 200w will charge the batteries in no time. IIRC the power consumption on a d-link dwl 900 is about 500mA at 12v (and yes they will run at 12v) say combined battery output of 120amp/hours = 200 ish hours before the voltage drops too low to power the kit up. Do you get much wind in Ireland?
Phil
200w generator £250 ish? a couple of deepcycle batteries £80?. 200w will charge the batteries in no time. IIRC the power consumption on a d-link dwl 900 is about 500mA at 12v (and yes they will run at 12v) say combined battery output of 120amp/hours = 200 ish hours before the voltage drops too low to power the kit up. Do you get much wind in Ireland?
Phil
This remembers me on how a German (and probably everywhere) cell phone service provider deals with new masts.
They find a building to fit the antenna or build a mast, haggle with the property owner and pay lots of money that he allows to do so. Three weeks later, complaints from local residents are sent to the service provider that they have headache and cant't sleep because of their radio station.
Service provider writes back that nothing from them does any harm at all. Local people don't belive anything and go to court. Six months later trial begins with said complaints and provider refuses to be guilty.
Libellants spend lots of money for expert reports on matter. Service provider proofs that affected radio station has never been in service. Court decides complaints are ill-founded. Phone company switches radio station on and goes on forever
They find a building to fit the antenna or build a mast, haggle with the property owner and pay lots of money that he allows to do so. Three weeks later, complaints from local residents are sent to the service provider that they have headache and cant't sleep because of their radio station.
Service provider writes back that nothing from them does any harm at all. Local people don't belive anything and go to court. Six months later trial begins with said complaints and provider refuses to be guilty.
Libellants spend lots of money for expert reports on matter. Service provider proofs that affected radio station has never been in service. Court decides complaints are ill-founded. Phone company switches radio station on and goes on forever
JamieBeeston said:
Are you selling this as a business? or just doing it out of the goodness of your heart?
If the latter, then people need to accept the short comings.
If the former, then obviosuly you need to fix this asap by whatever means neccesary (flowers / chocolates / comp'd meal at a local popsh nosh establishment + free WiFi etc.)
Considered a little 'peer pressure' from the neighbours to the woman? or just rent a chainsaw and 'have away' with the pesky new tree growth?
At the moment it's an 'investigation' into a possible business, so this is all part of the learning curve getting to grips with the kind of problems we will encounter.
Unfortunately this women is definately not for turning, in fact at one stage she called us fly-by-night breeze throughs - apparently renting property in the area doesn't constitute living here.
Feck knows what goes through some peoples heads, and why she got so hot under the collar about it all, but there we go.
JamieBeeston said:
there are many simple solutions if you REALLY want to make this work..
there are a few less solutions if you want to make it work OFFICIALLY (ie with permission from council to lop down trees instead of a midnight jaunt!)
J
Talk was made of chainsaws and tree removal with a few of the locals but I wanted to try to get around the problem with another node rather than hack the country side to bits.
Hopefully with a high enough mast we'll be able to get over the top of their house and everything will return to normal. I'll get out this weekend and do another survey - fingers crossed it might work.
best
Ex
theexcession said:
at one stage she called us fly-by-night breeze throughs - apparently renting property in the area doesn't constitute living here.
But living there for 10-12 weeks pa does?
Sounds like you may well be right to cut her out of the loop; she'll be nothing but trouble forever!
Bodo said:
This remembers me on how a German (and probably everywhere) cell phone service provider deals with new masts.
.....
Libellants spend lots of money for expert reports on matter. Service provider proofs that affected radio station has never been in service. Court decides complaints are ill-founded. Phone company switches radio station on and goes on forever
Excellent.
A great use of the powers of alternative thinking to solve the problem.
You can understand why, not so long ago, most people were much more superstitious than we are today. However all the old 'feelings' still exist just below our veneer of scientific belief!
Ex - I assume the trees will be more amenable to traffic passing them come autumn/winter? That buys you some time to seek a resolution to the problem.
I was going to suggest a dummy on/off switch to cnvince the lady that there was not power ut I do rather suspect that she has decided not to trust either you or the technology (that way she re-inforces her faith in her decision) and suspect you might be on to a looser. Could you make your alternative arrangement, which they have agreed to, a 'dummy' but with flashing lights and stuff so that she thinks that is the one that is active, but still retain the original?
Edit to add: When I wrote the stuff above I had not read the posts past Bodo's. Seems I might have been on the right track talking about faith. I'm not at all sure that is is necessarily a good thing that education has spread so far over the years and mass communication is all pervasive ... ah! but then is mass communication was not all pervasive we wouldn't be considering Ex's problem ...
Funny old world.
You could offer to buy them out thus over coming the problem AND her observation about permanency of residence.
>> Edited by LongQ on Thursday 25th August 23:27
If it helps its not just rural ireland that suffers from this - one of our london offices had its internet connection suddenly fail, noone could figure out why. Eventually (after 3 days) the engineers who went out to check out the site looked out of the window, and spotted the window cleaning frame that had been parked and left directly in the way of the line of site microwave link 
AhhaHahhhh
Finally coming to you from a cow shed in the middle of a field on the side of Duntry League, the Gallbally wireless backbone is up and running again.
Today has only cost me a front and rear wind screen for Landcrusier after I was moving a ladder, but forgot to lock the back door open. Back door closed unde braking, ladder went through both front and rear glass
The cost of each wireless installtion has just gone up by 50 Euro whilst I recoupe my losses.
Go on though, all have a good laff about it, I don't mind really.
Wonder what's going to go wrong next....
best
Ex
Finally coming to you from a cow shed in the middle of a field on the side of Duntry League, the Gallbally wireless backbone is up and running again.
Today has only cost me a front and rear wind screen for Landcrusier after I was moving a ladder, but forgot to lock the back door open. Back door closed unde braking, ladder went through both front and rear glass
The cost of each wireless installtion has just gone up by 50 Euro whilst I recoupe my losses.
Go on though, all have a good laff about it, I don't mind really.
Wonder what's going to go wrong next....
best
Ex
theexcession said:
Today has only cost me a front and rear wind screen for Landcrusier after I was moving a ladder, but forgot to lock the back door open. Back door closed unde braking, ladder went through both front and rear glass
There must be an Irish joke in there somewhere. Any less is too sad to contemplate.
philthy said:
A further thought occurs, If you could make the hop with one remote wind/solar powered repeater, how many links will that save you?
200w generator £250 ish? a couple of deepcycle batteries £80?. 200w will charge the batteries in no time. IIRC the power consumption on a d-link dwl 900 is about 500mA at 12v (and yes they will run at 12v) say combined battery output of 120amp/hours = 200 ish hours before the voltage drops too low to power the kit up. Do you get much wind in Ireland?
Phil
It's interesting that you bring up the idea of stand alone systems. It's possibly a way forward in the area in which we live. It's been a real struggle planning this backbone. We started by doing GPS surveys and planned the whole thing using Radio Mobile ( www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html ). We were really conservative with our estimated antenna heights and always worked with the worst possible scenarios. But microwave radiation is such a short wavelength that trees really can screw it up. The reckon you should allow about 3-5dB for an average tree - this link that failed looked like it had about 4 trees in the way. Next time I'll be taking a map and compass too - it's way to easy to just assume this links will function.
However, stand alone systems cost big money when compared to the type of installation I'm doing. Without doubt I need to get these costs down but right now we are generally looking at:
Linksys WRT54GS @ around £50
Antenna £20-30
Cables £5-10 depending on run lenthgs
Connectors, (power and antenna) £8
Weather Proof Box - £5 (not always required)
Antenna Pole - £7-15 depends on whats required
Pole mounts - £7-15 depends on whats required
I might look into getting a wind turbine and some batteries and then try running my base station on that system (at least if the batteries go flat I can then just hook up to the mains again). I guess that if push comes to shove then using a system like this verses not reaching a sizeable group of customers is worth considering.
There is also the additional cost that putting up a mast in a field is way more tricky than just bolting it onto the side of a house or barn.
Still all food for thought, thanks.
Ex
malman said:
You'll look back on this in years to come as one of those comedy moments but at the time I'll bet the air was a nice shade of blue.
Malman, this is so true, I will look back in a few years (hopefully those years being a time where this system has worked flawlessly) and I'll have my x-hundred customers all bunging me a few Euros a month to pay for my decadent life style.
malman said:
Look on the bright side - the local villagers can get back to downloading "pron" again.
Yup, you should see the DNS cache
malman said:
Windscreen insurance cover the front screen?
Hoping so!
cheers
best
Ex
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