Modern Operating Systems
Discussion
I'm just posting this for a bit of a sanity check.
I've been using computers from back in the 8 bit days, through the 16 bit eons and into the modern age. I started on the most basic system and have been within IT for pretty much the whole journey to present day.
Everytime I use a moder OS - by this I mean Windows 11, MacOS whatever the latest version is it seems as though it's a constant distraction through pop-up tips, wizards, notifications and hundreds of interuptions (adverts and news pings).
When settings are configured lo and behold there is some update or new version and bong it's back to interuptions and distractions that get in the way of what I turned on the computer to do.
If it's not some tooltip or guide that's popping up in a browser app, it's so application that interupts what you are doing to force and update, give you a choice or insist on some other information to proceed.
Is it just me that feels this way and that "back in the good old days" the computer was your assistant and not the other way round?
I'm now at the stage of longing for simpler OS that just worked, had all the features I needed (and more) and were around 20 years ago. I don't need a new feature or function just the basic stuff that's been around for years.
It's entirely possible I've just become of that age and everybody else is quite happy and thinks the machines are helping more and more, but for me they are now in the way with their constant attention seeking and interuptions.
I've been using computers from back in the 8 bit days, through the 16 bit eons and into the modern age. I started on the most basic system and have been within IT for pretty much the whole journey to present day.
Everytime I use a moder OS - by this I mean Windows 11, MacOS whatever the latest version is it seems as though it's a constant distraction through pop-up tips, wizards, notifications and hundreds of interuptions (adverts and news pings).
When settings are configured lo and behold there is some update or new version and bong it's back to interuptions and distractions that get in the way of what I turned on the computer to do.
If it's not some tooltip or guide that's popping up in a browser app, it's so application that interupts what you are doing to force and update, give you a choice or insist on some other information to proceed.
Is it just me that feels this way and that "back in the good old days" the computer was your assistant and not the other way round?
I'm now at the stage of longing for simpler OS that just worked, had all the features I needed (and more) and were around 20 years ago. I don't need a new feature or function just the basic stuff that's been around for years.
It's entirely possible I've just become of that age and everybody else is quite happy and thinks the machines are helping more and more, but for me they are now in the way with their constant attention seeking and interuptions.
I should just add that I already use linux mostly on the desktop but that everytime I use a modern windows or macos machine it just makes me pine for the older days of simpler IT usage.
I know that linux is not for everybody and it does not have all the apps but it even Windows XP from they days gone by is semi enjoyable to use.
I know that linux is not for everybody and it does not have all the apps but it even Windows XP from they days gone by is semi enjoyable to use.
Ens
tification + dumbing down everything to the lowest common denominator is the reason behind it. Not just PCs but everything these days, including cars. You can't be trusted to do anything yourself, you must do everything their way. If they allow you to change the settings then it is only a temporary respite until the next time you reboot it then it's back to their settings. Linux (and Mac OS to a lesser extent) are the solutions to the problem (for now).
tification + dumbing down everything to the lowest common denominator is the reason behind it. Not just PCs but everything these days, including cars. You can't be trusted to do anything yourself, you must do everything their way. If they allow you to change the settings then it is only a temporary respite until the next time you reboot it then it's back to their settings. Linux (and Mac OS to a lesser extent) are the solutions to the problem (for now).I’m totally with you. I used to know my way around a computer back in Windows 3.1/3.11/95 etc and then moved to Mac in around 2005. Mac has just got more and more unnecessarily complicated, settings within settings within settings, notifications for everything, it’s just become a distraction.
Just when you think you have it set up properly, it gets an update.
I think I’m just getting old to be honest but everything seems to take longer these days.
Just when you think you have it set up properly, it gets an update.
I think I’m just getting old to be honest but everything seems to take longer these days.
AB said:
Just when you think you have it set up properly, it gets an update.
IMHO Fedora Linux overdoes the helpfulness.Too many irrelevant popups, too much flim - flam in the way.
Constant notifications I could well do without.
Yes it might be a bit more newbie friendly, but for us oldies,
we want the "Just shut up and do it" nature of old school Unix.
After all, there are only 3 apps I ever run: Terminal, Browser & Open Office Calc.
The rest of the plethora of apps get deleted shortly after installation.
I won't be downloading the standard workstation version of Fedora
next time, it'll be one of the lightweight window managers, LXCE
or similar.
A bit like cars, there are a lot of features that get added in an attempt to give people the impression of progress and to create demand for the latest thing. But it's often just change for the sake of change and the product becomes cluttered and cumbersome.
And products also try to gather as much information as possible about you in order to sell the ability to tailor marketing ste at you.
I certainly find that configuring new stuff these days is mostly trying to turn crap off and denying things permissions.
There's a huge amount to be said for minimalism as a design paradigm.
And I too use Linux on my home computers.
And products also try to gather as much information as possible about you in order to sell the ability to tailor marketing s
te at you. I certainly find that configuring new stuff these days is mostly trying to turn crap off and denying things permissions.
There's a huge amount to be said for minimalism as a design paradigm.
And I too use Linux on my home computers.
All of the above.
It has become more and more hateful. Some applications (looking at you new Outlook) actually feel like some kind of adversarial event, it feels like a fight, each and every time I use it. The OS as a whole now has so many tasks to perform that work time is reduced, so many things where the first step is to google how to turn the fecking thing off and just when you think you've got them all there is another one which is slightly different.
It has already become like that already with cookies, not just on or off for all but some sites have SO many categories because some moron thought that 'Yes, I'd like to turn off all cookies except specifically the third party advertising telemetry for my likes and interests with regard to other third parties and how they view my browser performance related to the current profile....' F**K OFF!
The OS ecosystem is going that way and will get worse yet especially as more and more applications become 'webified'. It is no longer about the user experience it is about metrics - Devs measure the bug fixes, IT measure installs and manufacturers and third party measure the data they can sell. The user? The user can suck a bag of d**ks - their experience cannot be measured, they are of no use.
It has become more and more hateful. Some applications (looking at you new Outlook) actually feel like some kind of adversarial event, it feels like a fight, each and every time I use it. The OS as a whole now has so many tasks to perform that work time is reduced, so many things where the first step is to google how to turn the fecking thing off and just when you think you've got them all there is another one which is slightly different.
It has already become like that already with cookies, not just on or off for all but some sites have SO many categories because some moron thought that 'Yes, I'd like to turn off all cookies except specifically the third party advertising telemetry for my likes and interests with regard to other third parties and how they view my browser performance related to the current profile....' F**K OFF!
The OS ecosystem is going that way and will get worse yet especially as more and more applications become 'webified'. It is no longer about the user experience it is about metrics - Devs measure the bug fixes, IT measure installs and manufacturers and third party measure the data they can sell. The user? The user can suck a bag of d**ks - their experience cannot be measured, they are of no use.
I've moved to Linux Mint where possible but that too has a persistent pop-up about updates being available, so out of the box it seems OS makers can't help themselves but put themselves before the user experience where supposed user friendly options are a pain in the ass. Got to delve into geek settings to make them more tolerable but that defeats the purpose when there are less friendly alternatives already available that attract the geeks in the first place.
Like so many techy things for the masses (from smartphones to car infotainment) they were feature complete a long time ago, so they have to bloatware the hell out of them to appeal to consumers to keep consuming and upgrading, and force upgrades through immature obsolescence otherwise most would be happy with ever ageing tech. My Nexus5 phone, now 12 years old, still does everything I need from a phone. My 30 year old Pug 306 similarly for a daily driver.
New tech can get in the bin, there's very little attractive about it unless bought into the must have the latest greatest for image purposes. Ironically it's not made to last so isn't any greener than the stuff being thrown out for it.
Like so many techy things for the masses (from smartphones to car infotainment) they were feature complete a long time ago, so they have to bloatware the hell out of them to appeal to consumers to keep consuming and upgrading, and force upgrades through immature obsolescence otherwise most would be happy with ever ageing tech. My Nexus5 phone, now 12 years old, still does everything I need from a phone. My 30 year old Pug 306 similarly for a daily driver.
New tech can get in the bin, there's very little attractive about it unless bought into the must have the latest greatest for image purposes. Ironically it's not made to last so isn't any greener than the stuff being thrown out for it.
pistonheadforum said:
I've been using computers from back in the 8 bit days...
ActualDosHow things could have been so different...
Back in 1981 I built my Z80 computer with floppy disk controller and I wrote my own disk operating system named in my own name.
ActualDos was brilliantly simple. Type in the desired sector number and the Instant Access routine would almost instantly present the full 128 bytes of data from the desired sector on the CRT.
If only I had beaten that upstart Gates to market then we could all be living in a world of 128 byte pages right now
Not just you. Dave Plumber (author of task manager, pinball and other Windows components) recently did a piece of this.
I did a degree in networking and have been in IT for about 15 years. Moved to a MacBook and Linux desktop at home about 5 years ago. Dealing with Windows issues at work everyday the last thing I want to do when I get home is deal with there. Give me the current kernel with the XP UI and I’d be happy.
I did a degree in networking and have been in IT for about 15 years. Moved to a MacBook and Linux desktop at home about 5 years ago. Dealing with Windows issues at work everyday the last thing I want to do when I get home is deal with there. Give me the current kernel with the XP UI and I’d be happy.
Like many here I started back in the day and got into "computers" because it was new and exciting stuff. Loved the tech and enjoyed (what back then were) the intricacies of hardware and software.
Back then it was all function and no form. Now it feels like its the opposite and thats not just OS's, its tech across the board. So many useless features that really offer little or no benefit with no enhancement to the basic function of the tool its purpose be it a phone, a car or whatever.
It's called getting old.
Feels like an AA admission... "I have a Mac"
Back then it was all function and no form. Now it feels like its the opposite and thats not just OS's, its tech across the board. So many useless features that really offer little or no benefit with no enhancement to the basic function of the tool its purpose be it a phone, a car or whatever.
It's called getting old.
Feels like an AA admission... "I have a Mac"
AB said:
I m totally with you. I used to know my way around a computer back in Windows 3.1/3.11/95 etc and then moved to Mac in around 2005. Mac has just got more and more unnecessarily complicated, settings within settings within settings, notifications for everything, it s just become a distraction.
Just when you think you have it set up properly, it gets an update.
I think I m just getting old to be honest but everything seems to take longer these days.
Maybe I randomly turned something off when I replaced my 2014 MBPr a year ago, but our Mac environments have no pop-ups: still just works fine.Just when you think you have it set up properly, it gets an update.
I think I m just getting old to be honest but everything seems to take longer these days.
Haven’t touched a windows unit in over 10 years now. Bliss!
Used a MacBook for years and with an ad blocker and just saying no when an app asks if it can give notifications it feels pretty clutter free to me.
Same with Windows 10/11 though that's on corporate machines where there may be some stuff disabled or switched off v a home PC experience.
Same with Windows 10/11 though that's on corporate machines where there may be some stuff disabled or switched off v a home PC experience.
If you think it's bad now, wait until they merge Clippy from Microsoft with Talkie Toaster from Red Dwarf and it follows you everywhere through all the networked connected devices like a stalker. It'll be so pervasive and all-knowing it'll become the next big religion like a sentient Big Brother.
Does Anyone Want Any Toast? | Red Dwarf | BBC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRq_SAuQDec
Does Anyone Want Any Toast? | Red Dwarf | BBC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRq_SAuQDec
For server stuff, I'd only use linux.
For desktop, I've never got in with Macs, and every time I've looked at a linux GUI for a desktop I've hit various issues that are just aggro, so I am on Windows 11. However, I don't like the new start bar and menu they have, I felt it was unacceptable enstification. so have installed StartAllBack : https://www.startallback.com/
It's really good and means a can have the UI I like again.
For desktop, I've never got in with Macs, and every time I've looked at a linux GUI for a desktop I've hit various issues that are just aggro, so I am on Windows 11. However, I don't like the new start bar and menu they have, I felt it was unacceptable ens
tification. so have installed StartAllBack : https://www.startallback.com/It's really good and means a can have the UI I like again.
I've been using this for a good while now.
https://christitus.com/winutil-install/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_AaHXrelTE&li...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PA1wgdMeeI&li...
It allows you to turn off/remove the bloat. You can also build a lighter weight W11 install. A recent install i did for my sons gaming PC was fully functional, without bloat on < 100 processes in task manager.
Large feature updates undoes some of the settings, but if you save your config file, a couple of clicks and you are back to a debloated state.
https://christitus.com/winutil-install/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_AaHXrelTE&li...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PA1wgdMeeI&li...
It allows you to turn off/remove the bloat. You can also build a lighter weight W11 install. A recent install i did for my sons gaming PC was fully functional, without bloat on < 100 processes in task manager.
Large feature updates undoes some of the settings, but if you save your config file, a couple of clicks and you are back to a debloated state.
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