Finally upgrading the GFX card......advise please!!! :)

[beanbag]

I've been out of the loop in this area for quite a while now and I was hoping some of you chaps could help me out!

I've got an age-old PNY GeForce 4 Ti4200 with 64MB DDR2 RAM and I think its about time for a new card, but i've no idea what to get. I'd like something medium of the range and it has to be AGP. I'd also say €140 (living in Austria, but 100 pounds equivilent), would be my budget.

Any ideas of what to get?

I'd like these features if it helps:

- S-Video output (and maybe input - VIVO)
- Dual Monitor support
- At least one DVI output or even maybe two.
- 128MB or 256MB memory? I've no idea!

What chipset to get? Nvidia or ATI. I know a lot more about Nvidia cards plus as I've already got one installed, less chance of a rebuild required if I get another one.

Thanks all for your help!

[pentoman]

ATI X800 is the best card at that price point. Get a GTO model if possible for a little bit more, it's maybe 10% faster. 256MB should be available and is ideal for the latest games, get it if poss.

You get one DVI port, one normal D-sub out, TV out, all the usual stuff really.

Alternatively the Geforce 6600GT (I think) is the nVidia alternative but is not quite so quick plus you get to deal with an annoying manufacturer like nVidia..

All that said, having just bought an X800 GTO... it's pretty neat, but the price points are slowly moving up. A while ago a voodoo 2 was £100 and was the top-end card which would run anything. Nowadays if you want that you must spend £300-400 (!! ridiculous), and a £100 card such as the X800 is a pretty budget one that will play the latest games pretty sweetly but you won't be running max res with all the options up on the latest games... basically it's a powerful card but games requirements have enlarged a lot too.

good luck

Russell

[imp123]

best place for advice is the forums on www.overlockers.co.uk for all types of pc hardware, by the way you don't need to overclock either.

plus the online shop is cheap and reliable (so far!)

[Zod]

pentoman said:

ATI X800 is the best card at that price point. Get a GTO model if possible for a little bit more, it's maybe 10% faster. 256MB should be available and is ideal for the latest games, get it if poss. You get one DVI port, one normal D-sub out, TV out, all the usual stuff really. Alternatively the Geforce 6600GT (I think) is the nVidia alternative but is not quite so quick plus you get to deal with an annoying manufacturer like nVidia.. All that said, having just bought an X800 GTO... it's pretty neat, but the price points are slowly moving up. A while ago a voodoo 2 was £100 and was the top-end card which would run anything. Nowadays if you want that you must spend £300-400 (!! ridiculous), and a £100 card such as the X800 is a pretty budget one that will play the latest games pretty sweetly but you won't be running max res with all the options up on the latest games... basically it's a powerful card but games requirements have enlarged a lot too. good luck Russell

You've clearly been reading too many fanboy graphics forums. nVidia and ATi cards are much of a muchness. I'd suggest an ATi x800 GTO or XL or an nVidia 6600GT or 6800GS.

[beanbag]

Zod said:

pentoman said: ATI X800 is the best card at that price point. Get a GTO model if possible for a little bit more, it's maybe 10% faster. 256MB should be available and is ideal for the latest games, get it if poss. You get one DVI port, one normal D-sub out, TV out, all the usual stuff really. Alternatively the Geforce 6600GT (I think) is the nVidia alternative but is not quite so quick plus you get to deal with an annoying manufacturer like nVidia.. All that said, having just bought an X800 GTO... it's pretty neat, but the price points are slowly moving up. A while ago a voodoo 2 was £100 and was the top-end card which would run anything. Nowadays if you want that you must spend £300-400 (!! ridiculous), and a £100 card such as the X800 is a pretty budget one that will play the latest games pretty sweetly but you won't be running max res with all the options up on the latest games... basically it's a powerful card but games requirements have enlarged a lot too. good luck Russell You've clearly been reading too many fanboy graphics forums. nVidia and ATi cards are much of a muchness. I'd suggest an ATi x800 GTO or XL or an nVidia 6600GT or 6800GS.

Whats the sort of prices for those cards? To be honest I've had the Ti4200 for 4 years now and its never caused me an ounce of trouble. Plus the unidriver system works very well.

From those who know and have tried both, what's the difference (apart from the drivers) between both cards?

[lockstock2sb]

What exactly are you going to be running ? Video Games ? If you want the latest games to run at a decent frame rate then you might struggle at that budget. Otherwise from my experience ATI cards tend to provide more bang for buck in the middle range/budget area if you are running a single card system and offer some mild overclocking... As an example ages ago i bought an ATI 9600XT 128MB Card. Until 2 months ago i was running battlefield 2 on it (be it clocked and tweaked some). Admittedly it wasn't as smooth as i liked and consequently got fragged left right and centre, but it was still playable. That card back then set me back £119 and that was considered a good budget clockable card. Perhaps the 256MB version would be up your street ? Read the reviews on it

Tell us a bit more on what you are doing and what your spec is

Steve


>> Edited by lockstock2sb on Wednesday 11th January 16:02

[mcflurry]

pentoman said:

ATI X800 is the best card at that price point. Get a GTO model if possible for a little bit more, it's maybe 10% faster. 256MB should be available and is ideal for the latest games, get it if poss. You get one DVI port, one normal D-sub out, TV out, all the usual stuff really. Alternatively the Geforce 6600GT (I think) is the nVidia alternative but is not quite so quick plus you get to deal with an annoying manufacturer like nVidia.. All that said, having just bought an X800 GTO... it's pretty neat, but the price points are slowly moving up. A while ago a voodoo 2 was £100 and was the top-end card which would run anything. Nowadays if you want that you must spend £300-400 (!! ridiculous), and a £100 card such as the X800 is a pretty budget one that will play the latest games pretty sweetly but you won't be running max res with all the options up on the latest games... basically it's a powerful card but games requirements have enlarged a lot too. good luck Russell

I got a Number Nine card back in 1990-something.

It had 4mb of ram, when the standard was 512k - 1mb. List price was £900, I paid £150 at Tottenham Court Road, used it for 2 years and sold on for £140 in the back of Loot

[beanbag]

lockstock2sb said:

What exactly are you going to be running ? Video Games ? If you want the latest games to run at a decent frame rate then you might struggle at that budget. Otherwise from my experience ATI cards tend to provide more bang for buck in the middle range/budget area if you are running a single card system and offer some mild overclocking... As an example ages ago i bought an ATI 9600XT 128MB Card. Until 2 months ago i was running battlefield 2 on it (be it clocked and tweaked some). Admittedly it wasn't as smooth as i liked and consequently got fragged left right and centre, but it was still playable. That card back then set me back £119 and that was considered a good budget clockable card. Perhaps the 256MB version would be up your street ? Read the reviews on it Tell us a bit more on what you are doing and what your spec is Steve

Hi Steve. Cheers for your help. I used to be really clued up with this stuff but I haven't bothered in ages to look at GFX cards! I didn't even realise Nvidia were up the GF7 already!!!

My PC is a humble Athlon XP 3200+ with 1GB RAM Dual DDR (soon to change to 2GB after noting the prices in Aria).

Other than that, my spec is pretty standard. I mainly do photo/video editing, and I play the odd game or two although I couldn't give a Pete Tong whether I had a gazillion FPS. 40-60 will do just fine and it doesn't have to be in the highest quality settings.

I play HL2 and CS:Source quite often on my GF4 Ti4200 and that works a treat at about 40fps....sometimes it can get a little slower (30fps), but overall its ok at 1280x1024.

So basically I'm looking to future proof my PC for the next year or so and allow for HD movies hence one of the main reasons I want more memory on the card. At least 128MB. I'm also not interested in any overclocking. I like my PC to run cool since I use a lot of passive cooling to keep the noise down to a minimum. As soon as I get this card, I'm knocking off the fan and replacing it with my Zalman passive pipe cooler.

Cheers for the help so far.

[lockstock2sb]

Well if you arent bothered about FPS then i dont think you can go far wrong with a 9600XT 256MB or if you can stretch to it - a 9800XT 256mb. These must be in the £100 mark. I'd be careful about passive cooling on the GPU though... perhaps leave the standard item on and see how you get on? It would be a nightmare if you fried the card in the 1st week. I recommend getting some kind of free software temp monitor if you insist on removing the fan

Happy days !


EDIT: £116.99 on ebay for the 9800XT
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-ATI-Radeon-9800-XT-256MB-9


>> Edited by lockstock2sb on Wednesday 11th January 17:19

[pentoman]

Zod said:

pentoman said: ATI X800 is the best card at that price point. Get a GTO model if possible for a little bit more, it's maybe 10% faster. 256MB should be available and is ideal for the latest games, get it if poss. You get one DVI port, one normal D-sub out, TV out, all the usual stuff really. Alternatively the Geforce 6600GT (I think) is the nVidia alternative but is not quite so quick plus you get to deal with an annoying manufacturer like nVidia.. All that said, having just bought an X800 GTO... it's pretty neat, but the price points are slowly moving up. A while ago a voodoo 2 was £100 and was the top-end card which would run anything. Nowadays if you want that you must spend £300-400 (!! ridiculous), and a £100 card such as the X800 is a pretty budget one that will play the latest games pretty sweetly but you won't be running max res with all the options up on the latest games... basically it's a powerful card but games requirements have enlarged a lot too. good luck Russell You've clearly been reading too many fanboy graphics forums. nVidia and ATi cards are much of a muchness.

Without wanting to hijack the thread.. this was based on my own experience of the nVidia Geforce FX (mine was a 5900) range which was totally rubbish and in some/many cases slower than a Geforce 4, and my nVidia nforce2 motherboard which never worked properly.

The current crop are properly much of a muchness as you say but I trust ATi more..

[Maxeh]

The 9800XT is really really dated now, I would for for the 6600gt personally.
Alot better than the 9800XT.

[leosayer]

Another vote here for 6600GT.

[lockstock2sb]

The 6600GT is more newer and would be better certainly but i think you will be hard pushed to find a 256MB model within budget. the 128mb versions are coming in at about £100 inc VAT.... In which case a slightly older 256 Card will be fine - expecially if games are not a priority

Steve

[mr_yogi]

6600GT is a really good card for £100ish

the 6800GT/GS and X800 XL is quite a bit more especially the AGP versions

[beanbag]

Cheers all for the advise. I've popped down to a local shop here in the city to see what they have. (Shops in Vienna compete really well with prices on the internet).

I think i'm going to settle with a 6600 however is it really worth going for 256MB memory? How does this work with graphics cards. I know the principles well but surely it is simple the number of textures it can compute? Right?

[mr_yogi]

This is a tricky one, modern games when using high detail graphics settings are now using over 128Mb worth of textures and other graphics assets (and some when using other features such as anti-aliasing are nearer 512Mb), so using these settings on a 128Mb card will cause slowdown. This is because some textures will have to be stored in main system memory and passed over the slow (by video RAM speeds) AGP bus when they are neaded. However like you say the actual graphics chip will have a maximum throughput and may be too slow with the high detail settings on anyway.

The best thing to do is to have a look at some of the benchmarks on the PC hardware sites and checkout the framerates of the card against the games you want to play. Sites such as www.tomshardware.com, www.beyond3d.com/ www.firingsquad.com/ www.anandtech.com are good places to start looking.

Also be aware that marketing departments seem to be getting in on the big numbers act, where by company A will sell to versions of the same card for similar money, however one will have 128Mb ram and the other will have 256Mb RAM. The problem is that the 128Mb card will have much faster RAM generally running at the offical speed and the 256Mb card will have it's memory running much slower, in which case the 128Mb is the better option. I do NOT know if anyone is doing this with the nVidia 6600GT but if there are a number of options available it is well worth comparing the Core and memory speeds of different cards before you buy.

Also try and get the GT version as it is quite a bit faster than the standard 6600. And overall a 256Mb card is probably worth a premium in the long term.

I hope I haven't confussed you too much

good luck

[docevi1]

imp123 said:

best place for advice is the forums on www.overlockers.co.uk for all types of pc hardware, by the way you don't need to overclock either. plus the online shop is cheap and reliable (so far!)

not strictly true - overclockers have a strict policy of not allowing to discuss products they don't sell and they are fairly strict on negative points as well. For the most part they have the best stuff anyway, but any censorship isn't a good thing - you have no idea if you are getting the best.

The shop itself is reasonable however so long as you have no requirements to speak to anyone.

[JagwireXKR]

www.add2it.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=15384

One of these be OK?




Re-mortgaging services available elsewhere

[beanbag]

JagwireXKR said:

www.add2it.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=15384 One of these be OK? Re-mortgaging services available elsewhere

Top banana!

But....unfortunately my remortgaging specialists couldn't allow me to stretch so far.....