Networking question
Discussion
In my new place we have:
Wireless router/access point
|
|
|wired into
|
|
100 mbps router
|
|wired into
|
|
Cable modem
My problem is: From my PC which is connected by wireless, you can ping the wireless router/access point with 1ms response. Therefore the signal is perfect.
However, if you ping the wired router, the response times go from 20ms to 1500ms to timing out. So something ugly is happening between the wireless access point and the wired router. They are connected with a 100mbps cable.
At first DHCP was turned on on both routers (d'oh); I turned it off on wireless now and things improved, but are still poor.
Ideas?
Russell
Wireless router/access point
|
|
|wired into
|
|
100 mbps router
|
|wired into
|
|
Cable modem
My problem is: From my PC which is connected by wireless, you can ping the wireless router/access point with 1ms response. Therefore the signal is perfect.
However, if you ping the wired router, the response times go from 20ms to 1500ms to timing out. So something ugly is happening between the wireless access point and the wired router. They are connected with a 100mbps cable.
At first DHCP was turned on on both routers (d'oh); I turned it off on wireless now and things improved, but are still poor.
Ideas?
Russell
I can't check right now; I have been through the configuration of both though and am fairly sure I didn't see anything of the sort though.
Would it cause this sort of problem then? We are only a house of 3 people with pretty minimal network usage. 10 mbit would be perfectly fine. The internet connection is 4mbit but is really rather slow to browse (though constant download speeds aren't too bad).
Would it cause this sort of problem then? We are only a house of 3 people with pretty minimal network usage. 10 mbit would be perfectly fine. The internet connection is 4mbit but is really rather slow to browse (though constant download speeds aren't too bad).
If the duplex settings aren't matched you would be getting the symptoms you describe. Has the setup ever worked properly or is the wireless bit new?
other thing to try is a new network cable between the wireless unit and router.
Edit to add: Now you've turned off DHCP on both units have you renewed the IP addrresses on your computers?
>> Edited by rednotdead on Monday 30th January 12:41
other thing to try is a new network cable between the wireless unit and router.
Edit to add: Now you've turned off DHCP on both units have you renewed the IP addrresses on your computers?
>> Edited by rednotdead on Monday 30th January 12:41
Yes I've thought of a new network cable, however the pattern of behaviour is not random. If you're browsing the web, the ping to the router is lower. Stop browsing and the pings all go high and/or time out. Makes no sense!
DHCP IS on on the wired router. Presumably then, a router is able to assign network address to PCs connecting through the wireless access point?
Or does the access point have its own IP, acting as a router for the wireless PCs so they all appear to the wired router as just one IP address?
The setup is not new but has never worked properly..
Russell
DHCP IS on on the wired router. Presumably then, a router is able to assign network address to PCs connecting through the wireless access point?
Or does the access point have its own IP, acting as a router for the wireless PCs so they all appear to the wired router as just one IP address?
The setup is not new but has never worked properly..
Russell
what models of routers are we talking about?
Your wireless device should be setup as an access point with a static ip address and in its config it should be told the default gateway of your network - ie the ip address of your wired router.
You clients will receive IP addresses from the DHCP server on the wired router - as part of the DHCP config it should also be giving out the default gateway and DNS servers.
The behavour you;re experiencing does sound odd, especially if web browsing is ok.
Anymore config info you can give us?
Your wireless device should be setup as an access point with a static ip address and in its config it should be told the default gateway of your network - ie the ip address of your wired router.
You clients will receive IP addresses from the DHCP server on the wired router - as part of the DHCP config it should also be giving out the default gateway and DNS servers.
The behavour you;re experiencing does sound odd, especially if web browsing is ok.
Anymore config info you can give us?
why dont you remove the wired router and just have the wireless router into the cable modem? Wireless routers often have RJ45 ports plus a broadband port as well. For what i can see eyou have one too many routers ? 
My cable modem goes straight ingto my belkin wireless router and i have wired pc's on as well. Works superbly !
Steve
>> Edited by lockstock2sb on Monday 30th January 13:16
>> Edited by lockstock2sb on Monday 30th January 13:17
My cable modem goes straight ingto my belkin wireless router and i have wired pc's on as well. Works superbly ! Steve
>> Edited by lockstock2sb on Monday 30th January 13:16
>> Edited by lockstock2sb on Monday 30th January 13:17
Once you are connected, DHCP shouldn't matter, as this gives you an IP address when you connect to the network only.
Firstly, what kind of router is it ?
Basically the delay (which should be pretty uniform, and probably less than 20ms) is either due to some problem with the router (too much traffic using processor time, software / memory problem etc) or the cable.
First easy thing to do is to replace the cable and see what happens.
Firstly, what kind of router is it ?
Basically the delay (which should be pretty uniform, and probably less than 20ms) is either due to some problem with the router (too much traffic using processor time, software / memory problem etc) or the cable.
First easy thing to do is to replace the cable and see what happens.
pdV6 said:
why dont you remove the wired router and just have the wireless router into the cable modem?
The wireless one has no wired sockets.
We need the wired router as it's in the basement, where the cable modem is, and is wired to some of the bedrooms which have ethernet. The wireless access point serves the rest of the house.
OK I will try a new cable to be sure but again am certain it's not the problem.
I have even given my PC a fixed IP address so DHCP shouldn't matter.
The wired router is a Linksys like this:
www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?childpagename=US%2FLayout&packedargs=c%3DL_Product_C2%26cid%3D1115416832495&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper (sorry not sure exactly which model right now)
The wireless is an ultra simple Netgear one: www.netgear.com/products/details/WG602.php
It's as if perhaps the wireless and wired routers are trying to route each other or DHCP each other or something and causing some kind of contention?
DHCP will not be the problem... unless there's something going on that we don't know about...
Basically if it is configured on the wired router, than that router will always provide the IP address regardless of what you configure on the ADSL router. If you turn it off on the wired router you (probably) will not get an IP address, as the router shouldn't forward the DHCP request (unless you configure it to do so). This issue should only affect you when you join the network anyhow, as subsequently you will have an IP address, so will not be sending requests to the DHCP service.
There may be some compatibility issue between the router and the access point - could be a speed / duplex mismatch as already mentioned, or could be something else ....
Are they both Netgear ?
Basically if it is configured on the wired router, than that router will always provide the IP address regardless of what you configure on the ADSL router. If you turn it off on the wired router you (probably) will not get an IP address, as the router shouldn't forward the DHCP request (unless you configure it to do so). This issue should only affect you when you join the network anyhow, as subsequently you will have an IP address, so will not be sending requests to the DHCP service.
There may be some compatibility issue between the router and the access point - could be a speed / duplex mismatch as already mentioned, or could be something else ....
Are they both Netgear ?
OK - didn't read the previous post properly.....
The access point IS just that.. it is not a router...
Logically it is the same as a switch or a hub (and yes, I know they're not actually the same - for any pedants out there...lol) - basically it is an imaginary piece of wire...
It may have an IP address, but only for management purposes....
First thing to do is to isolate the problem, so what happens if you connect directly to the router ? Basically keep adding a hop until you see the latency.
Then you need to figure out why it is.
It will be either physical, or software / configuration. To be honest cable problems aren't that common, it's just worth trying early on as it is an easy fix. Next check any configuration.... you should be able to set speed/duplex on your PC network card, your access point and your router....
It shouldn't be your access point to PC link, as this will be set by the access point, but is worth a look anyway. Access point to router is far more likely. Alternatively there could be some extra config that you don't need, such as an extra default gateway, causing traffic to be diverted somewhere else before taking the best path ....
Failing that I'd say some kind of software issue or vendor incompatibility, though Lynksys and Netgear ought to work together.... (Cisco and Nortel..)
The access point IS just that.. it is not a router...
Logically it is the same as a switch or a hub (and yes, I know they're not actually the same - for any pedants out there...lol) - basically it is an imaginary piece of wire...
It may have an IP address, but only for management purposes....
First thing to do is to isolate the problem, so what happens if you connect directly to the router ? Basically keep adding a hop until you see the latency.
Then you need to figure out why it is.
It will be either physical, or software / configuration. To be honest cable problems aren't that common, it's just worth trying early on as it is an easy fix. Next check any configuration.... you should be able to set speed/duplex on your PC network card, your access point and your router....
It shouldn't be your access point to PC link, as this will be set by the access point, but is worth a look anyway. Access point to router is far more likely. Alternatively there could be some extra config that you don't need, such as an extra default gateway, causing traffic to be diverted somewhere else before taking the best path ....
Failing that I'd say some kind of software issue or vendor incompatibility, though Lynksys and Netgear ought to work together.... (Cisco and Nortel..)
aldi said:
If you do a tracert to the wired router in the basement, how many hops do you get?
wireless router
C:Documents and SettingsRuss>tracert 192.168.1.100
Tracing route to 192.168.1.100 over a maximum of 30 hops
1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.100
Trace complete.
wired router
C:Documents and SettingsRuss>tracert 192.168.1.1
Tracing route to 192.168.1.1 over a maximum of 30 hops
1 67 ms 177 ms 35 ms 192.168.1.1
Trace complete.
wired router
C:Documents and SettingsRuss>ping 192.168.1.1
Pinging 192.168.1.1 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=150
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=113ms TTL=150
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=2271ms TTL=150
Request timed out.
etc.
^ Look at that!
It's almost totally random
The Wireless access point has only options for setting its IP address, turning DHCP on/off, then it's all just wireless stuff like 'Pre-amble', 'RTS threshold', MAC access control that sort of thing. No NAT stuff.
I'm sure that this stuff doesn't relate to your problem.
When you say wireless router, do you mean your access point?
If so, this is not a router, and trace route etc is irrelevant.
It has an IP address, and also has the capability to fullfill other functions such as DHCP, but in essence it is a layer 2 switch.
It could be part of the problem though, as it is a physical hop between you and the internet.
It does seem as though it is the connection between access point and router that is causing problems.
If you have changed the cable, I would be looking at interface issues (speed/duplex) or software bug. Probably a good idea to call support and see if there are some options you can change that you've not found yet.... failing that, maybe you need to upgrade your software ? (this is admittedly coming from a Cisco point of view..), and ultimately maybe the two multi vendor products you have have a compatibility issue that you can't fix.
Are you able to see what routes / gateways are configured on the wired router ? There must be a default config... I guess the default gateway / route is the ADSL router, and your pc is on 192.168.x.x which is local.. if you had some other extraneous routing going on that could explain what you are seeing..
When you say wireless router, do you mean your access point?
If so, this is not a router, and trace route etc is irrelevant.
It has an IP address, and also has the capability to fullfill other functions such as DHCP, but in essence it is a layer 2 switch.
It could be part of the problem though, as it is a physical hop between you and the internet.
It does seem as though it is the connection between access point and router that is causing problems.
If you have changed the cable, I would be looking at interface issues (speed/duplex) or software bug. Probably a good idea to call support and see if there are some options you can change that you've not found yet.... failing that, maybe you need to upgrade your software ? (this is admittedly coming from a Cisco point of view..), and ultimately maybe the two multi vendor products you have have a compatibility issue that you can't fix.
Are you able to see what routes / gateways are configured on the wired router ? There must be a default config... I guess the default gateway / route is the ADSL router, and your pc is on 192.168.x.x which is local.. if you had some other extraneous routing going on that could explain what you are seeing..
guydw said:
When you say wireless router, do you mean your access point?
Sorry I mean wireless access point yes.
We do not have ADSL but cable. So the wired router is simply a router and no more. It connects to the cable modem through ethernet.
My IP is 192.168.1.109 and the gateway is 192.168.1.1 (the router's IP address; maybe this should be the cable modem's?)
There are no configuration changes to do with speed/duplex that I can find in the wireless or wired sides of things. I find it amazing if 2 ethernet devices simply aren't able to talk to each other because they are from different manufacturers, I mean how hard can it be? IP addresses, packets.. err...
thanks
Russell
your gateway should be your router, so that is correct.
When I say ADSL, I actually mean whichever device is actuallyconnected to the internet.
I agree with you that the two devices should just work, but they may have some slight difference in their default configuration which would cause a problem when they are used in a certain combination.
This is very common and frankly is a good thing as it helps to keep me in work.
Definately call support.
When I say ADSL, I actually mean whichever device is actuallyconnected to the internet.
I agree with you that the two devices should just work, but they may have some slight difference in their default configuration which would cause a problem when they are used in a certain combination.
This is very common and frankly is a good thing as it helps to keep me in work.
Definately call support.
I am so frustrated by this now. I had just got into a game on the pistonheads GT Legends server too.
Emailed support, it was some Indian mother**$*£$* who didn't even attempt to answer the question (he never even read it or at least never understood it) and just pasted a off a list of things from a word document like:
1) Try moving the wireless so no walls are blocking the signal
2) Try changing channels
3) Try something else you have already done so I am totally wasting your God D*&! time
NEVER BUY A NETGEAR PRODUCT.
Anyway so here's a screenshot:
Pinging wireless used to be 1ms so something going on there.
These pings were running simultaneously.
HOW CAN PINGING GOOGLE.COM BE FASTER THAN PINGING MY ROUTER?
There are usually regular random time outs in pings too.
I am going to smash my computer and all the computers in the world into tiny pieces we a range of hammers from big and blunt to small and pointy and buy a playstation. The only problem with this is I would be out of a job.
I have tried setting my default gateway as the wireless access point and as the wireless router. Neither made much of a difference.
This is a fresh install of XP; the rest of the PCs on our network seem to have the same problem too.
I won't accept that my wireless and wired won't work together because a) that's just bollox you say when you can't be bothered to fix something or can't work out how to (I am an IT engineer. I know.) They both conform to their standards. b) they're not mine to replace so they must work or I'm screwed and c) it's a wireless access point, it's designed to plug into a hub and serve wireless clients, how can it be incapable of doing that d) if this were the case it would make me so annoyed I'd have to move to the jungle for 2 years just to calm down, and the house I've just moved into has a 6 month minimum stay so I'd lose my deposit.
The only wildcard here is that my landlord uses the connection too, has a direct wire into the wired router. I don't see how this could cause this bizarre behaviour though.
Sorry for ranting, I had 2 really long days at work and have had 2 beers (yes a whole 2 and look what it does to me).
Russell
>> Edited by pentoman on Saturday 4th February 00:10
Emailed support, it was some Indian mother**$*£$* who didn't even attempt to answer the question (he never even read it or at least never understood it) and just pasted a off a list of things from a word document like:
1) Try moving the wireless so no walls are blocking the signal
2) Try changing channels
3) Try something else you have already done so I am totally wasting your God D*&! time
NEVER BUY A NETGEAR PRODUCT.
Anyway so here's a screenshot:
Pinging wireless used to be 1ms so something going on there.
These pings were running simultaneously.
HOW CAN PINGING GOOGLE.COM BE FASTER THAN PINGING MY ROUTER?
There are usually regular random time outs in pings too.
I am going to smash my computer and all the computers in the world into tiny pieces we a range of hammers from big and blunt to small and pointy and buy a playstation. The only problem with this is I would be out of a job.
I have tried setting my default gateway as the wireless access point and as the wireless router. Neither made much of a difference.
This is a fresh install of XP; the rest of the PCs on our network seem to have the same problem too.
I won't accept that my wireless and wired won't work together because a) that's just bollox you say when you can't be bothered to fix something or can't work out how to (I am an IT engineer. I know.) They both conform to their standards. b) they're not mine to replace so they must work or I'm screwed and c) it's a wireless access point, it's designed to plug into a hub and serve wireless clients, how can it be incapable of doing that d) if this were the case it would make me so annoyed I'd have to move to the jungle for 2 years just to calm down, and the house I've just moved into has a 6 month minimum stay so I'd lose my deposit.
The only wildcard here is that my landlord uses the connection too, has a direct wire into the wired router. I don't see how this could cause this bizarre behaviour though.
Sorry for ranting, I had 2 really long days at work and have had 2 beers (yes a whole 2 and look what it does to me).
Russell
>> Edited by pentoman on Saturday 4th February 00:10
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