Seriously considering buying an iMac 20" or 24" but.....

[beanbag]

I'm hoping that somebody here has experience with this. I'm very seriously considering selling off my PC and buying an iMac 20" or 24", but I've got a couple of questions first.

Firstly, the main reason for my change of heart is the ability to run Windows XP 'natively'. This would mean I could seamlessly transfer from one system to the other and keep all my purchased applications.

However, this might sound like a lame excuse, but I want my games to work. I've spent a lot of money on titles that I enjoy playing from time to time (especially Battle for Middle Earth), so I want to know they will work on the Mac. Do they? For example, is DirectX supported? And do all games work or just some??

Secondly, how 'native' is a Mac running XP? Is it perfect or are there still a lot of problems and bits of hardware not working?

Thanks for any replies or suggestions for websites detailing this stuff. I've already Googled but found nothing very conclusive.

Ta!

BB

[jimothy]

If you use bootcamp, then XP runs on it natively so you can either boot into XP the same as running on a non-mac PC, or boot into the far superior OSX.

So yes, everything you run at the moment will run under XP.

[beanbag]

jimothy said:

If you use bootcamp, then XP runs on it natively so you can either boot into XP the same as running on a non-mac PC, or boot into the far superior OSX.

So yes, everything you run at the moment will run under XP.

Ta Jimothy!

So what about the hardware support? I know the iMacs use GeForce 7600GT with 256MB. Can the games access the hardware as they would in Windows?

And is it as fast or will I experience any slowdown?

P.S. Just spec'd up what I want...I may have to make do with a 20" iMac. 2k is a little over budget!!!

Dream machine:

2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT 256MB SDRAM
500GB Serial ATA drive
Wireless keyboard & wireless Mighty Mouse + Mac OS X
AppleCare Protection Plan for iMac/eMac
24-inch TFT display
8x double-layer SuperDrive (DVD±RW, CD-RW)
AirPort Extreme
Bluetooth 2.0

£2,038.01....but at least I get free shipping!

[jimothy]

Bootcamp comes with all the Windows drivers for the apple hardware so performance will be fine. Access is the same as with Windows. Your hard drive gets split into 2 (sized by you) with one partition hosting Windows and the other OSX

Basically, bootcamp allows you to boot into the OS so when running XP it runs on the actual hardware, not in an emulation layer, so it runs exactly the same as a PC with similar spec, though the harware internals of the mac are faster than a lot of same spec PC's. Apple actually demonstrated that their MacBook Pros were the fastest windows laptops money available off the peg.

From windows you can't access the OSX partition, but from OSX you can access your Windows partition and acess all your data. You'll find you'll be using OSX for everything (iLife being the best photo/music/movie/DVD tool you can buy without going for Pro apps) apart from Windows games, and a lot of new games are coming out for the Mac as well.

[Mr Beckerman]

If you want to avoid the inconvenience of logging out etc to boot windoze, you can use Parallels;

www.parallels.com/en/products/desktop/

which runs Windoze on top of Mac OS.

[beanbag]

Mr Beckerman said:

If you want to avoid the inconvenience of logging out etc to boot windoze, you can use Parallels;

www.parallels.com/en/products/desktop/

which runs Windoze on top of Mac OS.

Surely that would make Windows run slower? Bit like VMware????

[Mr Beckerman]

beanbag said:

Surely that would make Windows run slower? Bit like VMware????

Can it get any slower?

Sorry, not a fan.

Runs fine on out latest iMacs here at work, and Windoze is still faster than on most of the PC's.

Interestingly, I've found that 9 out of 10 people who have used Bootcamp et al have stopped using windoze as they prefer Mac OS.

[beanbag]

Mr Beckerman said:

beanbag said:

Surely that would make Windows run slower? Bit like VMware????

Can it get any slower?

Sorry, not a fan.

Runs fine on out latest iMacs here at work, and Windoze is still faster than on most of the PC's.

Interestingly, I've found that 9 out of 10 people who have used Bootcamp et al have stopped using windoze as they prefer Mac OS.

I think if I got a Mac, I'd use OS X too, but I still want to enjoy my games every once in a while and my Studio MX 2006 that I bought. Not to mention Office 2006 Pro, and Photoshop CS. All legal, and all expensive, so I'd like to keep the best of both worlds for now.

Also...would my hauppauge TV tuner work in an iMac? Or would I have to buy a USB jobbie?

[HiRich]

As others have said, through Boot Camp, Windows runs natively on the hardware (there's one patch that deals with how the two different systems deal with some early startup thing). Magazine tests have shown the Mac running at very competitive speeds with a comparable "original" PC.

Parallels deskstation is very good (saves rebooting the machine) but tests indicate it runs at about 2/3 speed - good, but not gamer good.

A good source will be Apple's own forum:
http://discussions.apple.com/index.js
I actually did a search for Middle Earth (under the Boot Camp section) and it turned up:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.j
In Beta form, there appear to be some small glitches, particularly with some games and plug-in hardware, but they can be sorted fairly easily. It'll be worth a full browse through the forum for other issues and solutions.

Finally, remember to install Boot Camp properly:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.ht

[HiRich]

And if you are thinking of using Vista as well, take a look at this:
www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=15812
There are min specs, but I think all but the most basic Macs now on sale should be able to run Vista

[PJR]

beanbag said:

jimothy said:

If you use bootcamp, then XP runs on it natively so you can either boot into XP the same as running on a non-mac PC, or boot into the far superior OSX.

So yes, everything you run at the moment will run under XP.

Ta Jimothy!

So what about the hardware support? I know the iMacs use GeForce 7600GT with 256MB. Can the games access the hardware as they would in Windows?

And is it as fast or will I experience any slowdown?

P.S. Just spec'd up what I want...I may have to make do with a 20" iMac. 2k is a little over budget!!!

Dream machine:

2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT 256MB SDRAM
500GB Serial ATA drive
Wireless keyboard & wireless Mighty Mouse + Mac OS X
AppleCare Protection Plan for iMac/eMac
24-inch TFT display
8x double-layer SuperDrive (DVD±RW, CD-RW)
AirPort Extreme
Bluetooth 2.0

£2,038.01....but at least I get free shipping!

You can make that a whole lot cheaper..
Make do with stock ram, and upgrade it later from somewhere like Crucial. Its a whole lot cheaper than Apple. You could probably do the same with the HD too.. Do you really need 500gb? Even the faster CPU you could leave, as this too is upgradeable (Unusually for a mac). So maybe in a year or 2 you can put something rather better in there than Apple could ever have supplied it with. The price difference between the 2 cpu options is quite a lot, yet the performance difference wont be so noticeable.
Do get the graphics upgrade though if games are your bag, then you'll be wanting that. Plus, that graphics spec is only available on the 24" I believe, not the 20". So 24" is the way to go for sure.

Don't worry about running your PC apps on it.. Once you have installed Windows on it (very easy with BootCamp) then the Mac essentially IS a PC, and there is no reason why it cant do anything at least as well as a regular PC can. Apple dont support windows as such on Macs, in that if you have a problem with your Windows install, they are not going to help you. but they do provide reasonably good driver support, but for their own hardware, naturally. Drivers for 3rd party stuff you'd install yourself just as you would on a PC anyway.
The best way to run windows is via Apples BootCamp software (free). There is also Parrallels software (links above), which means you can run OS X and Windows at the same time. But Windows wont perform as well like this. Certainly not for games anyway. There is also 'CrossOver' beta software.. This looks promissing as you can use this to run windows apps in OS X without needing to install Windows at all (Great!). But again, it probably wont be much use for games.
Still, you have plenty of perfectly good options, so you cant lose. Go for it!
Cheers, P

[olf]

Okay, anybody you know work for a uni or school? You could get an easy 10% off this price if so.

[PJR]

PS, Do you really need the wireless kb and mouse too? They are not too hot for gaming, particularly the mighty mouse. Much better off (in my opinion) with a regular mac keyboard, and any logitech/microsoft mouse with a good old fashioned wire on it.

[magic torch]

From what I've heard from within the industry you'll be able to run Windows software soon from within OS X with negligible loss of speed. Parallels is great, but I'm pretty certain something better is on the horizon.

If you're interested in games, there's some good comparison's here.

The new iMacs are a pain to take-apart, so I'd forget about internal upgrades. As said earlier I'd get the RAM from crucial.

Have dealt with a lot of switchers from Windows to OS X, very few go back.

[PJR]

magic torch said:

From what I've heard from within the industry you'll be able to run Windows software soon from within OS X with negligible loss of speed. Parallels is great, but I'm pretty certain something better is on the horizon.

Isn't that CrossOver which i mentioned earlier? I've not had a chance to try it yet, but it looks good so far.
www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/

Cheers, P

[The Dude]

magic torch said:

Have dealt with a lot of switchers from Windows to OS X, very few go back.

4 years on and I now dread having to do anything on a PC.

Regarding games and Boot Camp/Parallels. I don't really play any but I have installed a couple of old Windows games (Motocross Mania/Madness) on my MacBook (with Boot Camp). They install and run fine but both fail when trying to authenticate the CD. A bit of net searching turned up a couple of no-cd cracks for both so I've used those. No idea why the games have trouble with the Mac DVD drive in this way, is it perhaps an extra level of abstraction above the hardware?

[ThatPhilBrettGuy]

Ok here's a question (and it's not to stir up trouble, honest).

Why oh why don't Apple release OSX so it'll run on generic PC hardware? If it's so good it'd be a proper rival for Microsoft, which would be a good thing. I like the look of OSX but there's no way I'll going to pay Apples' totally over-inflated hardward prices for no reason than to make them more money.

[Mr Beckerman]

ThatPhilBrettGuy said:

Ok here's a question (and it's not to stir up trouble, honest).

Why oh why don't Apple release OSX so it'll run on generic PC hardware? If it's so good it'd be a proper rival for Microsoft, which would be a good thing. I like the look of OSX but there's no way I'll going to pay Apples' totally over-inflated hardward prices for no reason than to make them more money.

I guess you've sort of answered your own question. Why should they release it when they'd be ditching some potential profit. Alright, there is the argument that if someone installs Mac OS on their PC they like it so much they buy Mac hardware, but the problem I can see is twofold, support and hardware.

Apple don't want to support Mac OS on an PC platform due to the endless hardware configurations available, which leads onto the second area, with Bootcamp et al, Apple have a known (to within a fairly tight set of parameters) hardware profile on which Windoze is going to run.

With regard to the over inflated hardware prices, are they? Recent surviews have found that on a like for like performance basis, Macs can now be cheaper than PC's on initial purchase price. Then factor in the total cost of ownership (we reckon to get 5 - 7 years out of a Mac compared to 3 out of a PC) and the prices really are quite attractive.

You can get Mac OS to run on a PC though, just takes a bit of fiddling apparently.

Edited by Mr Beckerman on Thursday 14th September 14:08

[nrayner]

I'mm keeping an eye on Parallels for games - they are promising native 3d support.

WHen they do, and I see a few good reports of playing GTL, HL2, BF2 without needing bootcamp my hard-earned will be going to Uncle Steve for a shiny Mac Pro

[bobthemonkey]

don't spend your cash till after the 25th/26th.

Theres another apple special event around then and although the imac line probably won't be affected, its probab;ly worth waiting till.