Utter numpty network and broadband Q
Discussion
I have no idea where to start, I've done a search and what I've found makes my eyesight blur and my head hurt, so please use small, simple words
I'm starting from scratch in a victorian house that needs a load doing to it, so I figured that I'd do the job properly and chase in cables etc.
We'd like to run two pcs in an office with a shared printer and broadband access, we'd also like wireless internet access but not necessarily wireless networking. It would also be useful to be able to share files (or at least access files in one computer from the other.)
In our current house we have broadband via telewest that suits us perfectly. We only use it for PH, googling and email so I figure ADSL will be adequate. We do have a wireless internet access too, which we'd like to keep.
And I've just read a thread where someone mentioned the Squeeze Box, which sounds fantastic
So what do I need? Presumably some Cat 5 cabling between the pcs and a phone line in the office??
I'm starting from scratch in a victorian house that needs a load doing to it, so I figured that I'd do the job properly and chase in cables etc.
We'd like to run two pcs in an office with a shared printer and broadband access, we'd also like wireless internet access but not necessarily wireless networking. It would also be useful to be able to share files (or at least access files in one computer from the other.)
In our current house we have broadband via telewest that suits us perfectly. We only use it for PH, googling and email so I figure ADSL will be adequate. We do have a wireless internet access too, which we'd like to keep.
And I've just read a thread where someone mentioned the Squeeze Box, which sounds fantastic
So what do I need? Presumably some Cat 5 cabling between the pcs and a phone line in the office??
You can run both telephony and network over seperate bits of cat5e
If you use a DSL microfilter consumer unit thing for the BT Master socket you can extend the DSL connection over Cat5 as well.
So lets say you want the wireless router (say a Netgear DG834PN which is both wired and wireless) in the office
You'd go DSL punchdowns (on the microfilter) > Cat5e > Router
Router > Cat5e > PC1
Router > Cat5e > PC2
Then PSTN punchdowns on the Microfilter either daisy chained using normal BT wire or Cat5 back to a patch panel and down to network points in the rooms (which could be either data or network points, depending on how they are patched at the office end)
Personally I'd look at putting a set of data points in every communal room rather than just doing one drop, that way you have flexibilty to put wired SQBs in or loads of other things.
If you're going to see Ben one weekend, call in on the way, I've got a box of 5e here if you want it...
If you use a DSL microfilter consumer unit thing for the BT Master socket you can extend the DSL connection over Cat5 as well.
So lets say you want the wireless router (say a Netgear DG834PN which is both wired and wireless) in the office
You'd go DSL punchdowns (on the microfilter) > Cat5e > Router
Router > Cat5e > PC1
Router > Cat5e > PC2
Then PSTN punchdowns on the Microfilter either daisy chained using normal BT wire or Cat5 back to a patch panel and down to network points in the rooms (which could be either data or network points, depending on how they are patched at the office end)
Personally I'd look at putting a set of data points in every communal room rather than just doing one drop, that way you have flexibilty to put wired SQBs in or loads of other things.
If you're going to see Ben one weekend, call in on the way, I've got a box of 5e here if you want it...
Edited by Plotloss on Friday 22 September 16:04
Telewest I thought were a cable ISP (like NTL) or have you ADSL via one of their deals?
Anyhow. Best bet might be slap something like a WiFi router in to the office, you can if you shop around, find one that has 4 wired ports plus WiFi. So it'll handle communications between both wired and wireless computers.
So cat5 from the arse end of the ADSL/cable modem to the router, then two runs of cat5 to the desktop PC's. Not sure how the Squeezebox talks to the outside world so can't say for sure if you'd need a 3rd cable run from the router to feed it or if it can hang off the WiFi.
That's what I'd do if I was starting from scratch.
Anyhow. Best bet might be slap something like a WiFi router in to the office, you can if you shop around, find one that has 4 wired ports plus WiFi. So it'll handle communications between both wired and wireless computers.
So cat5 from the arse end of the ADSL/cable modem to the router, then two runs of cat5 to the desktop PC's. Not sure how the Squeezebox talks to the outside world so can't say for sure if you'd need a 3rd cable run from the router to feed it or if it can hang off the WiFi.
That's what I'd do if I was starting from scratch.
mechsympathy said:
please use small, simple words
So... does the DSL (what is DSL anyway?) microfilter thingy replace the BT Master socket? And can I run conventional phone line form one as well as the cat5?
What are punchdowns?
And I'm lost here (Apart from the bit about Ben, but I'm a bit tied up atm and hoping to get the wiring done next week.):
Plotloss said:
Then PSTN punchdowns on the Microfilter either daisy chained using normal BT wire or Cat5 back to a patch panel and down to network points in the rooms (which could be either data or network points, depending on how they are patched at the office end)
Personally I'd look at putting a set of data points in every communal room rather than just doing one drop, that way you have flexibilty to put wired SQBs in or loads of other things.
If you're going to see Ben one weekend, call in on the way, I've got a box of 5e here if you want it...
Personally I'd look at putting a set of data points in every communal room rather than just doing one drop, that way you have flexibilty to put wired SQBs in or loads of other things.
If you're going to see Ben one weekend, call in on the way, I've got a box of 5e here if you want it...
thepassenger said:
Telewest I thought were a cable ISP (like NTL) or have you ADSL via one of their deals?
They are. In our old house (hence current setup) we have Telewest cable. Our new house has nowt but a BT landline. We're planning to go freeview on the TV and not bothering to install cable if we can.
thepassenger said:
Anyhow. Best bet might be slap something like a WiFi router in to the office, you can if you shop around, find one that has 4 wired ports plus WiFi. So it'll handle communications between both wired and wireless computers.
So cat5 from the arse end of the ADSL/cable modem to the router, then two runs of cat5 to the desktop PC's. Not sure how the Squeezebox talks to the outside world so can't say for sure if you'd need a 3rd cable run from the router to feed it or if it can hang off the WiFi.
That's what I'd do if I was starting from scratch.
So cat5 from the arse end of the ADSL/cable modem to the router, then two runs of cat5 to the desktop PC's. Not sure how the Squeezebox talks to the outside world so can't say for sure if you'd need a 3rd cable run from the router to feed it or if it can hang off the WiFi.
That's what I'd do if I was starting from scratch.
Is this pretty much what plotloss said?
Right, here is what I would do.
Chase up above the BT Master
Sink a 45mm deep double gang backbox in a suitable location in every communal room, the office and the master bedroom
Chase these in a path back to the office
Sink either two or preferably four Cat5e runs in the chase to each of these backboxes in a conduit
Run two Cat5e runs to the BT Master socket
Carry on with the rest of the works.
When you get to second fix, buy a small home distribution cabinet (I can get one of these) which will house a small number of network patch points, a voice distribution board and a wired/wireless router.
This way, each cat5e point can be either a data point or a voice point, all using the same cabling.
Want a squeezebox, plug it in, no need to arse about.
Chase up above the BT Master
Sink a 45mm deep double gang backbox in a suitable location in every communal room, the office and the master bedroom
Chase these in a path back to the office
Sink either two or preferably four Cat5e runs in the chase to each of these backboxes in a conduit
Run two Cat5e runs to the BT Master socket
Carry on with the rest of the works.
When you get to second fix, buy a small home distribution cabinet (I can get one of these) which will house a small number of network patch points, a voice distribution board and a wired/wireless router.
This way, each cat5e point can be either a data point or a voice point, all using the same cabling.
Want a squeezebox, plug it in, no need to arse about.
Plotloss said:
Chase up above the BT Master.
LOL, it's not fixed to the wall, never mind chased in
Plotloss said:
distribution cabinet
How big is this likely to be? (Just thinking of where it goes.)
Plotloss said:
network patch points,
What are these then? I assume connections for the PCs/printer. The PCs will be a little way apart against adjoining walls, I presume I need a line of cat5 from the distribution cabinet to each PC?
Plotloss said:
a voice distribution board
Again, sorry, what's this for?
Plotloss said:
wired/wireless router.
I know what this is!! Sorry to ask so many daft questions, I want to get it right.
Thanks for the help
It may not be fixed to the wall now but the cat5's running to it you wont want on display, now will you?
Max size would be 430x132x430, half size, which could be an option is 220x27x308
Could be hidden away in a cupboard or go in an alcove. Wall mounted though and where all the wires will go back to.
The patch points are the cable presentation at the head end, one cable per wall point (4 points per backbox) so you can make a wall point any service by patching a service (either voice or data) to a cable going through the wall.
The voice distribution will allow you to distribute the phone line around the house over the cat5e, so you avoid putting BT sockets in, in addition to all this cat5e and data sockets
Max size would be 430x132x430, half size, which could be an option is 220x27x308
Could be hidden away in a cupboard or go in an alcove. Wall mounted though and where all the wires will go back to.
The patch points are the cable presentation at the head end, one cable per wall point (4 points per backbox) so you can make a wall point any service by patching a service (either voice or data) to a cable going through the wall.
The voice distribution will allow you to distribute the phone line around the house over the cat5e, so you avoid putting BT sockets in, in addition to all this cat5e and data sockets
Cheers for that. I'll pay for your patience at BTaP Plotloss said:
The voice distribution will allow you to distribute the phone line around the house over the cat5e, so you avoid putting BT sockets in, in addition to all this cat5e and data sockets
Currently we have phone lines to 1st floor and the basement. Can these run alongside the cat5e or are we better off just going over all new fangled?
From an equal idiot who's done it, I'll try to go back to basics
First of all, think of the two systems as separate, with a link point
- The Local Area Network (LAN) which connects up all your computery stuff within the house
- The ADSL system (aka the phone line), which connects your house to the outside world.
- The link is the one phone socket in the house that both systems link into.
In reverse order, let's deal with the link area first
This link should be on the master phone socket in the house (which of course is the one furthest away from where you want it to be). The signal (data and voice) comes in on the copper cable. It needs to be split between data (high frequency) and voice (low frquency), and the device to do this is a microfilter. You can buy these integrated into the phone socket face plate (so there are now two different outputs), or you can buy a 'rat tail box' to plug into the old socket (so one input lead, two outputs holes).
Important note: Check this, but you will need a microfilter on every phone socket in use in the house.
The second thing to deal with here is how you then manage the data signal coming out that data socket. By far the best route is a standalone modem-router. This converts the ADSL signal to a LAN signal, and is able to run your LAN. Basically, your options are wireless or Ethernet. I prefer Ethernet, but that's a personal choice. As you are presumably ripping down the plasterboard or floorboards, you have the opportunity to consider laying a proper wired network, so at least consider it.
Since you are laying in new cables and stuff, make sure you have a power socket near the phone socket that the modem will be connected to.
The phone system.
So now you have one master phone socket connected to the outside world. You have split the signal with a microfilter, and you have the data signal going into a modem-router. You can now lay phone cables to sockets around the house (or just plug in a digital phone base station). This is the normal cable runs to each socket. Normal rules apply in terms of how many phones you can run, and remember that every phone socket will probably need a microfilter. I think this section is all fairly obvious.
The LAN
Coming back to it, the big question here is which communication technology do you want to use - wireless or Ethernet? As all your computer stuff is static (no wandering in the garden with a laptop) there's little justification for running two (though you can if you want). But at least make one the primary backbone.
Considering Ethernet over wireless
- Faster (especially if you have or will get gigabit Ethernet)
- Hard wired - no problems getting a signal through a solid wall
- More secure - it's harder for the guy next door to get into your network
- Less radiation bouncing around the house
but
- You need to be able to lay the wires in (not really an issue in your case)
- Once in, the sockets are fixed in those places. Rearranging the room or putting a computer in a new room means new cables and/or digging out the wall. You need to plan all your cabling and routing while you have the opportunity, and get them right first time.
- Your network printer needs to have an ethernet socket.
- If you need more than the basic four connections on one router, you need to buy a bigger router.
So if you decide to go Ethernet, make sure you put at least one socket (maybe more) in every room (don't forget the room that will eventually be the kids' bedroom), ideally close to the power sockets. Seriously consider running all the cables via the loft, to give you some flexibility when it comes to future changes.
Remember that Ethernet (like wireless) is node-based, so you can always extend the network in one room by adding another router.
So let's say your main phone socket is in the lounge. You will buy a standard, cheap modem-router (4 ports) and plug it in here. One cable will run to the office, one to the bedroom, one kept spare for any connection in the lounge, and one free for other use (perhaps to bridge to a wireless network for a roaming laptop, or to stream your iTunes stuff to the hifi and TV).
In the office you install a 4-port router (not modem-router). One port is in from the modem-router in the lounge, one each to the two PCs, one for the printer.
Alternatively you commit to wireless as your backbone. You connect a wireless modem-router to the phone socket. It beams out the ADSL signal and LAN signals around the hosue. If you are reasonably lucky the signal can reach any room with little loss. You then stick a wireless router in the office. Your wireless PCs and printer connect to the network through that one (you might get away with the PCs connecting to the original one, but it's worth budgetting in the second one at least - try without, then add it if needed). Anytime you want to add to the network, you add another router in that room (so a Squeezebox or Airport Express type device in the living room).
So the things you will need are:
An ADSL account (e.g. BT) and your phone line activated for ADSL
A microfilter on each phone socket
A modem-router (wireless or Ethernet) connected to the master phone socket and a nearby power socket
A means for each hardware device to connect to the LAN (so a wireless card or Ethernet card in the PCs & printer, other bridges for other hardware like TV, HiFi)
As necessary, extra routers in key places around the house to boost the network.
Additionally, if you go the Ethernet way, you need:
- Cabling in the walls (conduit, a roll of Cat5, wire strippers, and a cheap little tool for fixing the wires into the sockets)
- Wall sockets (standard ones are available off the shelf)
- Short leads from socket to hardware
Starting points are therefore:
- Can you actually get ADSL at the house?
- Where is your master phone socket in relation to where the other equipment will be?
- Just on gut feel, would a wireless signal get through all those walls?
- Can you live with the hassle of laying Ethernet cables, face plates, etc.?
- How might you use the network, now and in the future?
- How much new kit will you need to buy for either Ethernet or wireless installations?
- Does either Ethernet or wireless offer a killer advantage in your situation?
- Have you planned in enough power, phone and Ethernet sockets around the house?
- Do you commit to Etheret or wireless as the backbone of your system?
- Which ADSL provider do you choose?
Which is basicaly, a more idiot-friendly version of what Plotloss is saying...
A good source of info and product recommendations is www.adslguide.org.uk
First of all, think of the two systems as separate, with a link point
- The Local Area Network (LAN) which connects up all your computery stuff within the house
- The ADSL system (aka the phone line), which connects your house to the outside world.
- The link is the one phone socket in the house that both systems link into.
In reverse order, let's deal with the link area first
This link should be on the master phone socket in the house (which of course is the one furthest away from where you want it to be). The signal (data and voice) comes in on the copper cable. It needs to be split between data (high frequency) and voice (low frquency), and the device to do this is a microfilter. You can buy these integrated into the phone socket face plate (so there are now two different outputs), or you can buy a 'rat tail box' to plug into the old socket (so one input lead, two outputs holes).
Important note: Check this, but you will need a microfilter on every phone socket in use in the house.
The second thing to deal with here is how you then manage the data signal coming out that data socket. By far the best route is a standalone modem-router. This converts the ADSL signal to a LAN signal, and is able to run your LAN. Basically, your options are wireless or Ethernet. I prefer Ethernet, but that's a personal choice. As you are presumably ripping down the plasterboard or floorboards, you have the opportunity to consider laying a proper wired network, so at least consider it.
Since you are laying in new cables and stuff, make sure you have a power socket near the phone socket that the modem will be connected to.
The phone system.
So now you have one master phone socket connected to the outside world. You have split the signal with a microfilter, and you have the data signal going into a modem-router. You can now lay phone cables to sockets around the house (or just plug in a digital phone base station). This is the normal cable runs to each socket. Normal rules apply in terms of how many phones you can run, and remember that every phone socket will probably need a microfilter. I think this section is all fairly obvious.
The LAN
Coming back to it, the big question here is which communication technology do you want to use - wireless or Ethernet? As all your computer stuff is static (no wandering in the garden with a laptop) there's little justification for running two (though you can if you want). But at least make one the primary backbone.
Considering Ethernet over wireless
- Faster (especially if you have or will get gigabit Ethernet)
- Hard wired - no problems getting a signal through a solid wall
- More secure - it's harder for the guy next door to get into your network
- Less radiation bouncing around the house
but
- You need to be able to lay the wires in (not really an issue in your case)
- Once in, the sockets are fixed in those places. Rearranging the room or putting a computer in a new room means new cables and/or digging out the wall. You need to plan all your cabling and routing while you have the opportunity, and get them right first time.
- Your network printer needs to have an ethernet socket.
- If you need more than the basic four connections on one router, you need to buy a bigger router.
So if you decide to go Ethernet, make sure you put at least one socket (maybe more) in every room (don't forget the room that will eventually be the kids' bedroom), ideally close to the power sockets. Seriously consider running all the cables via the loft, to give you some flexibility when it comes to future changes.
Remember that Ethernet (like wireless) is node-based, so you can always extend the network in one room by adding another router.
So let's say your main phone socket is in the lounge. You will buy a standard, cheap modem-router (4 ports) and plug it in here. One cable will run to the office, one to the bedroom, one kept spare for any connection in the lounge, and one free for other use (perhaps to bridge to a wireless network for a roaming laptop, or to stream your iTunes stuff to the hifi and TV).
In the office you install a 4-port router (not modem-router). One port is in from the modem-router in the lounge, one each to the two PCs, one for the printer.
Alternatively you commit to wireless as your backbone. You connect a wireless modem-router to the phone socket. It beams out the ADSL signal and LAN signals around the hosue. If you are reasonably lucky the signal can reach any room with little loss. You then stick a wireless router in the office. Your wireless PCs and printer connect to the network through that one (you might get away with the PCs connecting to the original one, but it's worth budgetting in the second one at least - try without, then add it if needed). Anytime you want to add to the network, you add another router in that room (so a Squeezebox or Airport Express type device in the living room).
So the things you will need are:
An ADSL account (e.g. BT) and your phone line activated for ADSL
A microfilter on each phone socket
A modem-router (wireless or Ethernet) connected to the master phone socket and a nearby power socket
A means for each hardware device to connect to the LAN (so a wireless card or Ethernet card in the PCs & printer, other bridges for other hardware like TV, HiFi)
As necessary, extra routers in key places around the house to boost the network.
Additionally, if you go the Ethernet way, you need:
- Cabling in the walls (conduit, a roll of Cat5, wire strippers, and a cheap little tool for fixing the wires into the sockets)
- Wall sockets (standard ones are available off the shelf)
- Short leads from socket to hardware
Starting points are therefore:
- Can you actually get ADSL at the house?
- Where is your master phone socket in relation to where the other equipment will be?
- Just on gut feel, would a wireless signal get through all those walls?
- Can you live with the hassle of laying Ethernet cables, face plates, etc.?
- How might you use the network, now and in the future?
- How much new kit will you need to buy for either Ethernet or wireless installations?
- Does either Ethernet or wireless offer a killer advantage in your situation?
- Have you planned in enough power, phone and Ethernet sockets around the house?
- Do you commit to Etheret or wireless as the backbone of your system?
- Which ADSL provider do you choose?
Which is basicaly, a more idiot-friendly version of what Plotloss is saying...
A good source of info and product recommendations is www.adslguide.org.uk
king great. I'll digest it tomorrowCheers for this guys, it's been very useful (if a bit confusing) We're following plotloss's plan with an additional run into the loft in case of expansion and using the slightly more idiot proof networking advice
Many thanks
That's very kind Matt, but we should have it done by then
) We're following plotloss's plan with an additional run into the loft in case of expansion and using the slightly more idiot proof networking advice Many thanks
Plotloss said:
I'm in your neck of the woods the arse end of next week, if you can meet me in the Cotswolds I can give you the cable then.
Will be Friday though...
Will be Friday though...
That's very kind Matt, but we should have it done by then
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