Relax it's a computer.
Author
Discussion

peterperkins

Original Poster:

3,449 posts

273 months

Saturday 9th December 2006
quotequote all
Records of the computer age will be a blank in the future.

Better now we print them all out on vellum, roll them up and put them in a wooden box. Sure as eggs are eggs, our computers will lose them all eventually.

The reliable, safe computer is a myth. We have tampered with nature and gone too far. If you lose a piece of paper in the filing cabinet, maybe it's fallen out of its folder and is lying in the bottom of the drawer. You can find it. If you lose a document in your computer, forget it. Imagine that old filing cabinet had a button on the front, one press of it and the whole contents take a one way trip to oblivion. Would that button be accidentally pressed one day? You can bet your back-up it will. If there were two buttons on the cabinet which had to be pressed in a certain order, would it still happen eventually? Goodbye.

The computer experts, who are professionals in the arcane art, say any problems are all the fault of dopey users. A snooker professional would also think we should be able to put together a break of at least fourteen, but we can’t. The cry of the PC Pro is, ‘A computer can’t make mistakes.’ I wish to advise them that computers are temperamental, infuriating, unpredictable and as difficult to use as a one-wheeled bike. Maybe the top five per-cent of computer users can cosset their particular machine in such a way as not to upset it and give it a grudge against humanity. Normal people can’t. The fact is that a lot of the time spent using a computer must be devoted to it’s wellbeing. E.g defragmenting the hard drive! If I had to defragment my grill as often I would give up toast.

Hard drive! We needed that. A disc of magnetism of unimagineable capacity, going at incredible speeds with a pick-up arm floating a millionth of a hair’s breadth from the surface. I call that soft, an anvils hard. And this robust piece of indestructablity is the heart of it all. Everything saved is gone if it breaks. Have two perhaps? Trust it all to two butterflies wings? You can worry about both then.

I am a law-abiding citizen until I use the computer. Then I commit more illegal acts than the Mafia. I wish it told me ‘Not a good idea.’ Or ‘Whoops.’ Instead of having the quickest, most one sided trial in history and giving the inevitable sentence like Judge Jeffries. And what’s with this ‘fatal error’? Nobody’s died yet.

When all the butterflies wings won’t do anything, for reasons known to no-one, a screen just stays, and all mouse wheeling and key jabbing does nothing. We have to become a shamefaced felon, look over our shoulders, and when the coast is clear, switch it off in a way of which it does not approve. If it never works again we know it was our fault and it serves us right.

Regards Peter



rebelstar

1,146 posts

275 months

Saturday 9th December 2006
quotequote all
Never thought to backup your data, Peter?

I think we need to start introducing a licence to use a computer, like we do with cars. That should cut down on the "dopey users".

off_again

13,917 posts

265 months

Saturday 9th December 2006
quotequote all
As the old software developers adage says - "all software has bugs"...

Its just that some are bigger than others, and yes, they do go wrong......

off_again

13,917 posts

265 months

Saturday 9th December 2006
quotequote all
rebelstar said:
Never thought to backup your data, Peter?

I think we need to start introducing a licence to use a computer, like we do with cars. That should cut down on the "dopey users".


Exactly - you cant just jump into a car and drive it can you? You need to pass the fundamentals of road signs and rights. Then you need to take lessons and then subsequently you need to pass a test. Quite why someone thinks they can simply pickup a computer and use it without any concerns about what they are doing is beyond me.

Almost everything in the world requires some form of skill or training to achieve. Do we simply pick up a pen and start doing calligraphy? Do we don a robe and instantly start doing karate? Can we pick up a laptop and just use it? It aint easy and it requires some education in the first place (as well as experience).

agent006

12,058 posts

295 months

Saturday 9th December 2006
quotequote all
The arrogance of end users never ceases to surprise me.

ThePassenger

6,962 posts

266 months

Saturday 9th December 2006
quotequote all
So your saying you don't understand how to use the computer? The computer is broken and you'd like us to fix it? The computer is broken, you've thrown it out the window and which one should you buy next?
Give us a clue as that reads like one of Der's posts

aldi

9,292 posts

268 months

Saturday 9th December 2006
quotequote all
peterperkins said:
Everything saved is gone if it breaks. Have two perhaps? Trust it all to two butterflies wings? You can worry about both then.


No no, that's RAID0, you want RAID1 in this scenario hehe

Allthough I do understand the sentiment, allmost every day I see competent lawyers & architects, skilled builders, secretaries of 40 years service reduced to bumbling idiots just by sitting infront of a keyboard. IMO computers for end users are *too* flexible, it just confuses the hell out of people. They should be set up to be more locked down and role-specific, but people won't generally accept that - they bitch and moan cause they can't have their favourite wallpaper/colour scheme/retarded mouse pointers.


Edited cause I cought the mouse button and posted too soon - now thats irony paperbag

Edited by aldi on Saturday 9th December 13:21

zumbruk

7,848 posts

291 months

Saturday 9th December 2006
quotequote all
peterperkins said:
Records of the computer age will be a blank in the future.

Better now we print them all out on vellum, roll them up and put them in a wooden box. Sure as eggs are eggs, our computers will lose them all eventually.

The reliable, safe computer is a myth. We have tampered with nature and gone too far. If you lose a piece of paper in the filing cabinet, maybe it's fallen out of its folder and is lying in the bottom of the drawer. You can find it. If you lose a document in your computer, forget it. Imagine that old filing cabinet had a button on the front, one press of it and the whole contents take a one way trip to oblivion. Would that button be accidentally pressed one day? You can bet your back-up it will. If there were two buttons on the cabinet which had to be pressed in a certain order, would it still happen eventually? Goodbye.

The computer experts, who are professionals in the arcane art, say any problems are all the fault of dopey users. A snooker professional would also think we should be able to put together a break of at least fourteen, but we can’t. The cry of the PC Pro is, ‘A computer can’t make mistakes.’ I wish to advise them that computers are temperamental, infuriating, unpredictable and as difficult to use as a one-wheeled bike. Maybe the top five per-cent of computer users can cosset their particular machine in such a way as not to upset it and give it a grudge against humanity. Normal people can’t. The fact is that a lot of the time spent using a computer must be devoted to it’s wellbeing. E.g defragmenting the hard drive! If I had to defragment my grill as often I would give up toast.

Hard drive! We needed that. A disc of magnetism of unimagineable capacity, going at incredible speeds with a pick-up arm floating a millionth of a hair’s breadth from the surface. I call that soft, an anvils hard. And this robust piece of indestructablity is the heart of it all. Everything saved is gone if it breaks. Have two perhaps? Trust it all to two butterflies wings? You can worry about both then.

I am a law-abiding citizen until I use the computer. Then I commit more illegal acts than the Mafia. I wish it told me ‘Not a good idea.’ Or ‘Whoops.’ Instead of having the quickest, most one sided trial in history and giving the inevitable sentence like Judge Jeffries. And what’s with this ‘fatal error’? Nobody’s died yet.

When all the butterflies wings won’t do anything, for reasons known to no-one, a screen just stays, and all mouse wheeling and key jabbing does nothing. We have to become a shamefaced felon, look over our shoulders, and when the coast is clear, switch it off in a way of which it does not approve. If it never works again we know it was our fault and it serves us right.

Regards Peter





Take more tobacco with it.

dilbert

7,741 posts

262 months

Saturday 9th December 2006
quotequote all
aldi said:
peterperkins said:
Everything saved is gone if it breaks. Have two perhaps? Trust it all to two butterflies wings? You can worry about both then.


No no, that's RAID0, you want RAID1 in this scenario hehe

Allthough I do understand the sentiment, allmost every day I see competent lawyers & architects, skilled builders, secretaries of 40 years service reduced to bumbling idiots just by sitting infront of a keyboard. IMO computers for end users are *too* flexible, it just confuses the hell out of people. They should be set up to be more locked down and role-specific, but people won't generally accept that - they bitch and moan cause they can't have their favourite wallpaper/colour scheme/retarded mouse pointers.


Edited cause I cought the mouse button and posted too soon - now thats irony paperbag
Edited by aldi on Saturday 9th December 13:21


When I had a job, my computer eventually got to be so locked down, it would only tell me the time, and let me use the internet.

When you think that the internet boom occured before and around the time when people were upgrading from Windows 3.1 for Workgroups, to the shiny new arena of Windows 95..... he only consideration you can have is that the internet boom was dependent on computers that couldn't be locked down.

Does anyone remember those networks where everything was hectic an chaotic. Remember saying, "Christ, where the heck is Old Fred's network share?", "I need him to be able to get at my data." Remember fiddling with autoexec.bat to get Novell networks to work with Windows ones!

These days, it's gone all retentive. It doesn't matter that the business needs me to get data from A to B, or even write some code to process it. The sad reality is that I have to put in a business request to IT. They're so busy that they can't do what's needed for at least six months, because it's not in the budget. "You want some code sir, Phwoarrr, you're working for the wrong company. Please don't ask again".

Edited by dilbert on Saturday 9th December 13:46

ThePassenger

6,962 posts

266 months

Saturday 9th December 2006
quotequote all
dilbert said:
These days, it's gone all retentive. It doesn't matter that the business needs me to get data from A to B, or even write some code to process it. The sad reality is that I have to put in a business request to IT. They're so busy that they can't do what's needed for at least six months, because it's not in the budget. "You want some code sir, Phwoarrr, you're working for the wrong company. Please don't ask again".


This is because of two core reasons.

1. Companies prefer paperwork to experience. IT departments are staffed with MCSE's, CCNA's, BSc's who have very little actual experience doing 'stuff'. Whilst this looks good, it means that things take a hell of a long time because they lack the experience to have a standby of quick snippets, work arounds and hacks to patch the systems up without vendor assistance.

2. Most IT departments are no longer run by someone with experience of IT. Accountants now run the show; IT is a black hole of spending (servers, desktops, staff training, software licenses, developers, etc) for which their is in terms of raw figures now benefit too. Ergo the number of staff required is obviously too high. I've seen sites where there were zero IT staff and if something needed doing they'd buy the services of a contractor for a day or two. Accounts also prefer the few staff they allow to be "oven ready" for any possible situation, which leads to point 1.

You also have several minor reasons why a lot of IT departments are demoralised, they see experienced staff thrown out and replaced (point 1) they see their operating budgets slashed to under the bare minimum (point 2). Often a large department working on remote machines is under threat from companies like Wirpol (outsourcing) and many of the very minor perks (non-porn surfing, vendor bribes and such) which keep people amused and happy are ferreted away. Also, whilst not common, I've seen practically the whole company go off to a Christmas bash and everyone in IT not be invited and told they had to work.
Hardly surprising that when treated like the scum of the company you find the IT staff sticking to fingers up at your request and doing the absolute minimum they can get away with ad their is very little incentive for them to not be this way.

zumbruk

7,848 posts

291 months

Saturday 9th December 2006
quotequote all
ThePassenger said:
dilbert said:
These days, it's gone all retentive. It doesn't matter that the business needs me to get data from A to B, or even write some code to process it. The sad reality is that I have to put in a business request to IT. They're so busy that they can't do what's needed for at least six months, because it's not in the budget. "You want some code sir, Phwoarrr, you're working for the wrong company. Please don't ask again".


This is because of two core reasons.

1. Companies prefer paperwork to experience. IT departments are staffed with MCSE's, CCNA's, BSc's who have very little actual experience doing 'stuff'. Whilst this looks good, it means that things take a hell of a long time because they lack the experience to have a standby of quick snippets, work arounds and hacks to patch the systems up without vendor assistance.

2. Most IT departments are no longer run by someone with experience of IT. Accountants now run the show; IT is a black hole of spending (servers, desktops, staff training, software licenses, developers, etc) for which their is in terms of raw figures now benefit too. Ergo the number of staff required is obviously too high. I've seen sites where there were zero IT staff and if something needed doing they'd buy the services of a contractor for a day or two. Accounts also prefer the few staff they allow to be "oven ready" for any possible situation, which leads to point 1.

You also have several minor reasons why a lot of IT departments are demoralised, they see experienced staff thrown out and replaced (point 1) they see their operating budgets slashed to under the bare minimum (point 2). Often a large department working on remote machines is under threat from companies like Wirpol (outsourcing) and many of the very minor perks (non-porn surfing, vendor bribes and such) which keep people amused and happy are ferreted away. Also, whilst not common, I've seen practically the whole company go off to a Christmas bash and everyone in IT not be invited and told they had to work.
Hardly surprising that when treated like the scum of the company you find the IT staff sticking to fingers up at your request and doing the absolute minimum they can get away with ad their is very little incentive for them to not be this way.


clapbowclapbowclapbowclapbowclapbowclapbowclapbowclapbow

"We're outsourcing 30% of your jobs to India, cutting your pay and you're not getting a bonus this year." And then they wonder why morale is down the toilet. I'm *so* glad I'm close to retiring.


aldi

9,292 posts

268 months

Saturday 9th December 2006
quotequote all
zumbruk said:
ThePassenger said:
dilbert said:
These days, it's gone all retentive. It doesn't matter that the business needs me to get data from A to B, or even write some code to process it. The sad reality is that I have to put in a business request to IT. They're so busy that they can't do what's needed for at least six months, because it's not in the budget. "You want some code sir, Phwoarrr, you're working for the wrong company. Please don't ask again".


This is because of two core reasons.

1. Companies prefer paperwork to experience. IT departments are staffed with MCSE's, CCNA's, BSc's who have very little actual experience doing 'stuff'. Whilst this looks good, it means that things take a hell of a long time because they lack the experience to have a standby of quick snippets, work arounds and hacks to patch the systems up without vendor assistance.

2. Most IT departments are no longer run by someone with experience of IT. Accountants now run the show; IT is a black hole of spending (servers, desktops, staff training, software licenses, developers, etc) for which their is in terms of raw figures now benefit too. Ergo the number of staff required is obviously too high. I've seen sites where there were zero IT staff and if something needed doing they'd buy the services of a contractor for a day or two. Accounts also prefer the few staff they allow to be "oven ready" for any possible situation, which leads to point 1.

You also have several minor reasons why a lot of IT departments are demoralised, they see experienced staff thrown out and replaced (point 1) they see their operating budgets slashed to under the bare minimum (point 2). Often a large department working on remote machines is under threat from companies like Wirpol (outsourcing) and many of the very minor perks (non-porn surfing, vendor bribes and such) which keep people amused and happy are ferreted away. Also, whilst not common, I've seen practically the whole company go off to a Christmas bash and everyone in IT not be invited and told they had to work.
Hardly surprising that when treated like the scum of the company you find the IT staff sticking to fingers up at your request and doing the absolute minimum they can get away with ad their is very little incentive for them to not be this way.


clapbowclapbowclapbowclapbowclapbowclapbowclapbowclapbow

"We're outsourcing 30% of your jobs to India, cutting your pay and you're not getting a bonus this year." And then they wonder why morale is down the toilet. I'm *so* glad I'm close to retiring.


Don't forget the other favourite, "This is Steve, the new agency guy on 1/2 your pay - could you please show him how to do everything you do? Nice one." Remember people, keep that documentation sparse but convincing looking...

ThePassenger

6,962 posts

266 months

Saturday 9th December 2006
quotequote all
aldi said:
zumbruk said:
ThePassenger said:
dilbert said:
These days, it's gone all retentive. It doesn't matter that the business needs me to get data from A to B, or even write some code to process it. The sad reality is that I have to put in a business request to IT. They're so busy that they can't do what's needed for at least six months, because it's not in the budget. "You want some code sir, Phwoarrr, you're working for the wrong company. Please don't ask again".


This is because of two core reasons.

1. Companies prefer paperwork to experience. IT departments are staffed with MCSE's, CCNA's, BSc's who have very little actual experience doing 'stuff'. Whilst this looks good, it means that things take a hell of a long time because they lack the experience to have a standby of quick snippets, work arounds and hacks to patch the systems up without vendor assistance.

2. Most IT departments are no longer run by someone with experience of IT. Accountants now run the show; IT is a black hole of spending (servers, desktops, staff training, software licenses, developers, etc) for which their is in terms of raw figures now benefit too. Ergo the number of staff required is obviously too high. I've seen sites where there were zero IT staff and if something needed doing they'd buy the services of a contractor for a day or two. Accounts also prefer the few staff they allow to be "oven ready" for any possible situation, which leads to point 1.

You also have several minor reasons why a lot of IT departments are demoralised, they see experienced staff thrown out and replaced (point 1) they see their operating budgets slashed to under the bare minimum (point 2). Often a large department working on remote machines is under threat from companies like Wirpol (outsourcing) and many of the very minor perks (non-porn surfing, vendor bribes and such) which keep people amused and happy are ferreted away. Also, whilst not common, I've seen practically the whole company go off to a Christmas bash and everyone in IT not be invited and told they had to work.
Hardly surprising that when treated like the scum of the company you find the IT staff sticking to fingers up at your request and doing the absolute minimum they can get away with ad their is very little incentive for them to not be this way.


clapbowclapbowclapbowclapbowclapbowclapbowclapbowclapbow

"We're outsourcing 30% of your jobs to India, cutting your pay and you're not getting a bonus this year." And then they wonder why morale is down the toilet. I'm *so* glad I'm close to retiring.


Don't forget the other favourite, "This is Steve, the new agency guy on 1/2 your pay - could you please show him how to do everything you do? Nice one." Remember people, keep that documentation sparse but convincing looking...


This annoys the hell out of me as well. Contractors aren't supposed to be cheap cheerful replacements for permies. We're damn expensive! We're expensive because we're who's called in when it all goes horribly horribly wrong, or when you need a multitude of specialised staff for a project. I'm not going to go up to London for 6 months to work on your helpd esk for £7.95p/h, no one with my experience will, anyone who does is either stupid... or telling porky pies.

Plotloss

67,280 posts

301 months

Saturday 9th December 2006
quotequote all
Its been a while since I worked in IT but what is this 'documentation' of which you speak?

On a more serious note.

Contractors are in a difficult situation, if they take the work at shit rates they get sneered at by permanoids because they seem them as a threat to their job. If they get good rates because of their experience/unpaid holidays/out of pocket training expenses etc they get sneered at because they are on good money and get the attitude from permanoids of 'why she he get all that ing money for the same ing job, bastard?'

So my advice would be dont take shit money as a contractor and if you do get a contract really play up to the other type of moaner. A favourite ruse in this regard was to get my tailor to come to the office during lunch

ThePassenger

6,962 posts

266 months

Saturday 9th December 2006
quotequote all
Plotloss said:
Its been a while since I worked in IT but what is this 'documentation' of which you speak?


I think... correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen this 'documentation'. When you're unboxing a server it's that paper stuff on the top, good for building forts out off yes
I did read some once, it told me sticking my fingers in moving fans was bad.


If only I'd have read it sooner. Yours, Stumpy.

Plotloss said:
On a more serious note.

Contractors are in a difficult situation, if they take the work at shit rates they get sneered at by permanoids because they seem them as a threat to their job. If they get good rates because of their experience/unpaid holidays/out of pocket training expenses etc they get sneered at because they are on good money and get the attitude from permanoids of 'why she he get all that ing money for the same ing job, bastard?'

So my advice would be dont take shit money as a contractor and if you do get a contract really play up to the other type of moaner. A favourite ruse in this regard was to get my tailor to come to the office during lunch


Favorite phrase I've used to a permadroid: "Which part of Mercenary did you not understand?" usually said after getting a dirty look whilst talking to an agent about another job that pays more Kind of wish the market around here was better for SA's, I do miss abusing the permadroids sometimes.

The odd thing is I've never yet had someone going on at me about the rate I'm on; it's not that I'm one of those people who keep is secret, if someone asks I tell them; and I make sure any contractor comming in to do the same job is on the same rate (I've seen some seriously cheeky agents).

plasticpig

12,932 posts

256 months

Sunday 10th December 2006
quotequote all
ThePassenger said:
Plotloss said:
Its been a while since I worked in IT but what is this 'documentation' of which you speak?


I think... correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen this 'documentation'. When you're unboxing a server it's that paper stuff on the top, good for building forts out off yes
I did read some once, it told me sticking my fingers in moving fans was bad.


If only I'd have read it sooner. Yours, Stumpy.



It all seems to come on CD's these days. Not even useful as a doorstop. Those big ring binder manuals now they were useful.

As for contractors. Speaking from the other end of the food chain they are either shcensoredt hot or shcensoredit with nothing in between. The merely compotent appear to be permies.

Plotloss

67,280 posts

301 months

Sunday 10th December 2006
quotequote all
Thats it, contracting used to only be an option to the very good but when the IT 'explosion' happened contract openings became less discerning and everyone was suddenly a contractor. This led to a situation where you either had old school contractors who were very good at their job and people way out of their depth, leading to the situation you describe.

ThePassenger

6,962 posts

266 months

Sunday 10th December 2006
quotequote all
Plotloss said:
Thats it, contracting used to only be an option to the very good but when the IT 'explosion' happened contract openings became less discerning and everyone was suddenly a contractor. This led to a situation where you either had old school contractors who were very good at their job and people way out of their depth, leading to the situation you describe.


Aye, it also lead to the explosion of people with certs. Which is a big annoying thing as the MCSE went from 'top end' to 'entry level' almost overnight; true you had MSCD/T for Devs and Trainers (I think) but for the ground pounders you didn't really look at those unless you were heading off to be a dev or trainer. I've given up explaining to Agencies why an MCSE is NOT required for a 1st line helpdesk position, these days I just say "page 1, top". I also agree on their being no middle ground between scensoredt hot and scensoredt; as I've worked with some right clueless muppets, the most famous quote was from a newly minted MCSE asking me "How do I find the IP address in 2000?" :bangshead:

I know people will point and say 'conspiracy theory' but what boils my piss every time I hear it is "Skills Shortage", almost every year they twitter on about needing certain skills and having to import it from other places. I have never actually seen this shortage; I've seen a lot of well qualified and experienced people doing roles beneath their capabilities and I've seen a lot of the UK equivalent of H1B visa's wandering around doing jobs which I could do. God, this sounds racist, but sod it. I've never seen an American, Australian, German, French or Spanish person imported but I've seen a lot of Indians on low wages who have been!

knut handsome

586 posts

244 months

Sunday 10th December 2006
quotequote all
rebelstar said:
Never thought to backup your data, Peter?


He knows how to back it up to PistonHeads from here.

Dumb arse users who don't back up their stuff or take the time to install a free desktop search utility deserve all they get. Like whining about 'Bloody car went bang on me, just because I forgot to put oil in.'



plasticpig

12,932 posts

256 months

Sunday 10th December 2006
quotequote all
ThePassenger said:
newly minted MCSE asking me "How do I find the IP address in 2000?" :bangshead:


I don't trust any of the MS qualifications. Two experiences led me to this. One was doing a training course where I knew more about the software than the MS certified trainer. The other was seeing a software project go down the pan where the guy in charge at the company contracted to develop the software was not only MS certified he was an MS MVP (most valued professional)