music files legal position
Discussion
I'm sure there's a lawyer on here someplace, but IIRC, and I'm no lawyer, it is illegal (in breach of copyright) for them to share music (assume we're talking mp3?) so I would assume it's not legal for you to allow it.
At work, I am not allowed to store mp3 files on my laptop or any other company computer due to potential company exposure.
At work, I am not allowed to store mp3 files on my laptop or any other company computer due to potential company exposure.
billb said:
lots of my users are mailing each other music files - whats the legal position of this re our company (school). Can I justify stopping them doing it on a copyright stance?
any help appreciated
yey tenicaly it ilegal yes you could tell em no.
whether any one will take any notice is a nother mater
There are various products (usually quota/virus scanning products) that will prevent files from being stored on file and mail servers. You may even be able to prevent the files being mailed using the native functionality of your mail servers (i.e in Exchange 2000/3 a simple event sink would do it).
edited to add: As far as justifying it to the kids, surely the computers are provided for the ability to carry out school work, not mess around swapping music?
DJ
>> Edited by _DJ_ on Saturday 3rd January 12:00
edited to add: As far as justifying it to the kids, surely the computers are provided for the ability to carry out school work, not mess around swapping music?
DJ
>> Edited by _DJ_ on Saturday 3rd January 12:00
Yeah, as mentioned the legal position is that sharing is illegal, as well as downloading shared files. This breaks the copyright on the material in the first place (could be music or video) and hence breaking the law.
However, a similar legal nightmare came out when cassettes started becoming available with twin decks - hence copy from one to another! Music industry tried to prosecute people like Philips for this. It failed as it is actually possible, in the EU, to copy your own music for backup purposes. What you choose to do with it is fair enough - just dont give it or allow anyone to copy it.
This was actually recently tested in Norway (ok, not actually EU, but very similar laws) against the chap who broke the DVD copy protection. Case fell down as he claimed he wanted to do this for a challenge and that he owned the DVD's he was testing anyway.... judge agreed and case thrown out - well he didnt actually agree, but without direct evidence that he was doing anything else then there was no case to call. In reality you cant prosecute someone for gettingt the tools to break the law - its the breaking the law that you can.... e.g. you can make a lock pick set - but unless you actually use it on someone elses lock, you arent guilty of anything.... thats the problem with the music industries cases at the moment.
Personally I would ban the sharing of music files, except where it can be proved that it is a particular persons, and they own the original. This is pretty difficult to police so many people / companies / organisations adopt the "no music or video files at all" policy....
Oh, and put something in your acceptible use policy for this. Break the rules then it is the individual not the organisation that is to blame.... you do have an acceptible use policy dont you?
However, a similar legal nightmare came out when cassettes started becoming available with twin decks - hence copy from one to another! Music industry tried to prosecute people like Philips for this. It failed as it is actually possible, in the EU, to copy your own music for backup purposes. What you choose to do with it is fair enough - just dont give it or allow anyone to copy it.
This was actually recently tested in Norway (ok, not actually EU, but very similar laws) against the chap who broke the DVD copy protection. Case fell down as he claimed he wanted to do this for a challenge and that he owned the DVD's he was testing anyway.... judge agreed and case thrown out - well he didnt actually agree, but without direct evidence that he was doing anything else then there was no case to call. In reality you cant prosecute someone for gettingt the tools to break the law - its the breaking the law that you can.... e.g. you can make a lock pick set - but unless you actually use it on someone elses lock, you arent guilty of anything.... thats the problem with the music industries cases at the moment.
Personally I would ban the sharing of music files, except where it can be proved that it is a particular persons, and they own the original. This is pretty difficult to police so many people / companies / organisations adopt the "no music or video files at all" policy....
Oh, and put something in your acceptible use policy for this. Break the rules then it is the individual not the organisation that is to blame.... you do have an acceptible use policy dont you?
It's an old argument.... would you buy the music you have "shared" if the CD's were cheaper?
Personally, I have bought CDs after sampling the music by sharing it...... on many occasions I have downloaded an MP3, then thought "This is an excellent track" and then bought the CD.
Technically I'm still breaking the law, but if I hadn't downloaded the track in the first place, chances are I wouldn't have bought the CD....
Personally, I have bought CDs after sampling the music by sharing it...... on many occasions I have downloaded an MP3, then thought "This is an excellent track" and then bought the CD.
Technically I'm still breaking the law, but if I hadn't downloaded the track in the first place, chances are I wouldn't have bought the CD....
Apache said:
pbrettle said:
Personally I would ban the sharing of music files, except where it can be proved that it is a particular persons, and they own the original.
How come?
No matter what justifications people come up with the downloading of an mp3 that you haven't bought (or won't be buying) is exactly the same morally as going into HMV and stealing a CD. Most people are totally against theft except, it seems, when they think they won't get caught for it.
Sorry if that sounds old fashioned
Mark
>> Edited by dern on Saturday 3rd January 14:00
rich-uk said:
Sybari's Antigen's got a good file filter.
The problem is, you can stop certain file types being swapped, but people can just change the file extension and get round it.
Is there not a way of hiding the extensions, and making it an administrator only thing to reveal them again?
meeja said:
It's an old argument.... would you buy the music you have "shared" if the CD's were cheaper?
Personally, I have bought CDs after sampling the music by sharing it...... on many occasions I have downloaded an MP3, then thought "This is an excellent track" and then bought the CD.
Technically I'm still breaking the law, but if I hadn't downloaded the track in the first place, chances are I wouldn't have bought the CD....
Word for word my point too meeja, thanks to Kazaa I've discovered and bought CDs that I wouldn't have considered. I feel the sharing issue is paranoia on the Music Corps part and their lack of 'control' over it all. You just have to look at the sh1t in the charts these days to realise they guide and control everything, so much so that The Darkness appear as a refreshing change
I also feel that Kazaa acts as a more sophisticated version of 'sampling' a few tracks in the music store before buying, you also have 'the ownership' feeling of a true purchase that a 'burnt' CD will never really duplicate (CD sleeve etc)
>> Edited by Apache on Saturday 3rd January 14:11
meeja said:
rich-uk said:
Sybari's Antigen's got a good file filter.
The problem is, you can stop certain file types being swapped, but people can just change the file extension and get round it.
Is there not a way of hiding the extensions, and making it an administrator only thing to reveal them again?
There is, but you can never stop getting round it - .vbs script, cmd.exe etc etc. Isn't Sybari more intelligent than that anyway - i.e if you rename and exe to .nonexe it will still figure out the file format is an exe and disallow it.
edited to add: you could always approach it from a different angle. In order for the students to be able to mail the file they have to get it from somewhere. You could just try to restrict that instead...
>> Edited by _DJ_ on Saturday 3rd January 14:20
This is interesting because I have a few :cough: at work. However, these are simply copies of my personal CD's (since CD's have been know to go walkies with cleaners). Whilst I'm not sharing them per-say (certainly at no profit), people (selected few) can access them for their personal use.
How do you stand if the MP3's are copies of your OWN CD's that you've paid for??
Steve
How do you stand if the MP3's are copies of your OWN CD's that you've paid for??
Steve
billb said:
lots of my users are mailing each other music files - whats the legal position of this re our company (school). Can I justify stopping them doing it on a copyright stance?
Unless you have the specific permission of whoever owns the copyright (or it's 'copyright free') then almost certainly you can. There can be many different rights to clear - the composer, the performer, the recording company - it can get messy. You could try calling MCPS (Mechanical Copyright Protection Society) in London for some guidelines. Good luck!
Apache said:
Personally I would ban the sharing of music files, except where it can be proved that it is a particular persons, and they own the original.
How come?
Sorry, its linked back to the original question - what would be the legal position in a school.... which basically you need to ban for a number of reasons, never mind the legal position! So in a corporate, organisation or school, I dont think there is anything other than banning....
Home use, now thats another question - I currently have something like 15GB of music files on my PC. The majority of these are bought and paid for, but I do have a large(ish) collection of music that I have downloaded. I do the same as you though - I use something like Kazaa (or WinMX) to get the relevant tracks that I am interested in and then, if they are good, buy the CD's. Access to the type of music that I like is VERY restricted in this country - either the retailers dont carry it or the radio doesnt play it. Kinda puts a dampner on the whole thing really....
What I do believe is that the music industry should accept the inevitable and embrace the music sharing business. Make tracks available, publish additional information and videos and get the music to the people that want it - the single is dead, long live the interent.
_DJ_ said:
edited to add: As far as justifying it to the kids, surely the computers are provided for the ability to carry out school work, not mess around swapping music?
DJ
>> Edited by _DJ_ on Saturday 3rd January 12:00
true but we like to encourage them to use the computers so we allow more eg games etc than u would in the corporate world. Think i'll ban them just cos it causes a nightmare for storage if nothing else! just wanted to get my facts right before i did so i could say to the governors "well if u want to get prosecuted then sure lets carry on!"
fatsteve said:Technically, even that in the UK is illegal. There is no "fair use" legislation like there is in the US. If you download music from a CD you own to an MP3 player, you are in breach of the law. In practise, you aren't going to get prosecuted though.
This is interesting because I have a few :cough: at work. However, these are simply copies of my personal CD's (since CD's have been know to go walkies with cleaners). Whilst I'm not sharing them per-say (certainly at no profit), people (selected few) can access them for their personal use.
How do you stand if the MP3's are copies of your OWN CD's that you've paid for??
Steve
fatsteve said:
This is interesting because I have a few :cough: at work. However, these are simply copies of my personal CD's (since CD's have been know to go walkies with cleaners). Whilst I'm not sharing them per-say (certainly at no profit), people (selected few) can access them for their personal use.
How do you stand if the MP3's are copies of your OWN CD's that you've paid for??
Steve
Because you are "changing the format" of the music (ie converting to MP3) you are breaching copyright laws.
Stupid, but true.
At my former employers, it was quite common for colleagues to listen to music/radio etc on their PC's via headphones during lunch breaks..... on many occasions emails did the rounds saying "If anyone has *cough* seen *cough* my Coldplay album could they please return it, and no more will be said....."
So having MP3's on your PC, and a Windows Media playlist was commonplace.
Until the IT guys had a crackdown on unlicensed stuff..... so all the MP3's had to be removed.....
Mind you, most of the PCs in my department had a CD writer on, so those crackdowns only became an issue when my MP3 and playlist file sizes exceeded 700mB!!!
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