W124 - sportline Vs std suspension - how much difference?

[mccrackenj]

Hi all

I'm considering a E320 estate with sportline suspension and I'm wondering how much different it will feel compared to my pre-facelift 300TE on ordinary suspension. Distance & practicalities mean that I probably can't drive before I buy.

I'm not too bothered about potential improvements in road-holding & handling etc as that's just not relevant to the use I be putting the car to - I'm much more interested in how it'll feel in normal driving on our usual poor urban & suburban roads. Will it be noticeably firmer?

Can anyone advise pls?

Thanks

[Biglips]

I have an E36 estate w124 and it is considerably better handling than my previous standard w124 e320. I suspect it is firmer than a sportline although have never driven a sportline. I can reassure you that even with the AMG suspension it is a comfortable ride around town. Good luck with the purchase

[chazola]

I drove a 320TE sportline that Nick (bolide) had, and it was quite a subtle difference. The ride was still standard 124 wafty, but it felt more planted around corners and when you put your foot down where standard 124s have a fair bit of body roll.

[r129sl]

My 320 TE had sportline suspension and seating and I found it a mite too stiff for my tastes. I renewed the entire suspension during my ownership, so it was it should be. I found it lacked the lovely bounce that a w124 should have. I also found the sportline wheel too small and it obscured some of the instruments. It was extremely rapid across country, however.

[mccrackenj]

Thanks to all 3 of you for your views gents - I knew I could rely on the 'usual suspects' to take time out to respond.

So we have a difference of opinion, from "standard W124 wafty" which is what I want to hear, to "a mite too stiff" which I don't. If the car was on the same land mass I would go and drive it but it's not that simple.

More opinions required maybe - Mr Froome, where are you?

Actually, I don't think the car is a sportline, but it's advertised as having "sports suspension" so presumably the same apart from badges, steering wheel, seats etc. Don't know about wheel & tyre sizes, whether 6.5" and 195/65 or 7" and 205/60.

[r129sl]

As you probably know, Sportline was something of a smorgasbord buffet of tasty options for 201s and 124s. You could have the lot, a la M Creosote, or any one or more components, consisting chassis or undercarriage (springs, shocks, anti-roll bars, steering box), alloy wheels, seats and upholstery.

Mark Taylor of MTSV (whom I have found to be unfailingly helpful along with Bolide) gave me his opinion that the 320 really needs Sportline because of the extra power but conceded that "it can feel a bit 'jarry' at times". He has a nice E320 Sportline (the full package) estate coming into stock.

For me, I felt the ride suffered the stiff suspension more on the broken country roads where I live than it did around town. I used 6.5" wheels with 195/65 tyres on my car during the winter and I couldn't tell the difference.

[mickyveloce]

Another vote for the 'wafty' 124 from me !

I suspect that even the Sportline cars will have mellowed into a comfortable ride by now ; they were fairly tuned to comfort when new , particularly when compared to the harsh and misjudged Sport package currently offered by Mercedes .

Always watch for broken springs at the front too .

Many cars which would have been fitted with 195x65's now have 205x60's as they are more plentiful and a bit cheaper . They have no tangible difference in day to day driving conditions .

If I could chose , I'd prefer a standard set up , but if you really want one , buy the best on offer .

[mickyveloce]

Another vote for the 'wafty' 124 from me !

I suspect that even the Sportline cars will have mellowed into a comfortable ride by now ; they were fairly tuned to comfort when new , particularly when compared to the harsh and misjudged Sport package currently offered by Mercedes .

Always watch for broken springs at the front too .

Many cars which would have been fitted with 195x65's now have 205x60's as they are more plentiful and a bit cheaper . They have no tangible difference in day to day driving conditions .

If I could chose , I'd prefer a standard set up , but if you really want one , buy the best on offer .

[mccrackenj]

r129sl said:

Mark Taylor of MTSV (whom I have found to be unfailingly helpful along with Bolide) gave me his opinion that the 320 really needs Sportline because of the extra power but conceded that "it can feel a bit 'jarry' at times". He has a nice E320 Sportline (the full package) estate coming into stock.

As you may have guessed by now - that's the very car I'm talking about. I've already been in touch with Mark about it.

Edited by mccrackenj on Tuesday 1st May 16:54

[rb5er]

My mum had an e220 cab and then followed by an e320 cab sportline The sportline was still quite wafty, certainly not stiff at all.

[r129sl]

mccrackenj said:

r129sl said:

Mark Taylor of MTSV (whom I have found to be unfailingly helpful along with Bolide) gave me his opinion that the 320 really needs Sportline because of the extra power but conceded that "it can feel a bit 'jarry' at times". He has a nice E320 Sportline (the full package) estate coming into stock.

As you may have guessed by now - that's the very car I'm talking about. I've already been in touch with Mark about it.

Edited by mccrackenj on Tuesday 1st May 16:54

It looks like a peach and at a reasonable price. I wouldn't be put off by the mileage, especially if it has had suspension bushes done (I note it has had the spheres). Don't know why it doesn't quite do it for me... may be it does! The only things that put me off were (1) sportline, (2) no heated seats and (3) hideous aftermarket or dealer fit speakers in the rear doors. The colours are pretty lovely.

[mccrackenj]

Aah - so you've seen the car in flesh then?

I'd be very interested in your opinions if you didn't mind - feel free to pm me.

r129sl said:

mccrackenj said:

r129sl said:

Mark Taylor of MTSV (whom I have found to be unfailingly helpful along with Bolide) gave me his opinion that the 320 really needs Sportline because of the extra power but conceded that "it can feel a bit 'jarry' at times". He has a nice E320 Sportline (the full package) estate coming into stock.

As you may have guessed by now - that's the very car I'm talking about. I've already been in touch with Mark about it.

Edited by mccrackenj on Tuesday 1st May 16:54

It looks like a peach and at a reasonable price. I wouldn't be put off by the mileage, especially if it has had suspension bushes done (I note it has had the spheres). Don't know why it doesn't quite do it for me... may be it does! The only things that put me off were (1) sportline, (2) no heated seats and (3) hideous aftermarket or dealer fit speakers in the rear doors. The colours are pretty lovely.

[r129sl]

No, he sent me some pictures by email. PM me and I'll send them on to you. They're on my work computer so it will be tomorrow. At the price he is asking, I think it is a good buy. And my impression of Mark Taylor is that he can be relied upon to assess a car accurately and to describe it honestly. They're aren't many one can say this about: Nick Froome strikes me well, Peter Lewis at CCBenz, the chap at Prestige Mo Co in Oxfordshire, Carl Wilford at Auto Barn, that's your lot.

I keep coming back to this car, but it is not quite right for me. I want either (1) a perfect, early, very bare car (which I may have found), (2) a fully loaded (7 seats, air con, heated seats) smoke silver/mushroom 320 TE or E320, or (3) a very good six cylinder diesel. I am seriously taken by this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1986-MERCEDES-300-TE-AUT...

I have to say, my 320 TE was a very fast car. The 24v six is a joy, a really trad six cylinder engine with a fantastic rasp at high revs. Above 4,500rpm it just goes. Being narrow, light and sportingly sprung, it could make very good progress on real roads.

Edited by r129sl on Tuesday 1st May 20:34

[mccrackenj]

Cheers R129

He's sent me a couple of pics too, prob the same ones, but I'll pm you anyway.

I know what you mean re the appeal of the early cars and the earliest cars in any particular range being the best. Somehow the older a range of cars becomes the better the early versions look compared to the inevitable facelift cars. I saw the gold one on the smoker barges thread earlier and I thinks it's wonderful. I can well understand plenty of people wanting the latest possible version but the early ones have a great charm that grows with the passage of time. I'm still torn with the idea of changing my nice early almandine 300TE for a facelift car but the 320 engine is winning the argument at the minute.

Having a few problems pm'ing you - PH is throwing a bit of a wobbly at the minute. Will try again later

Edited by mccrackenj on Tuesday 1st May 20:58

[Egbert Nobacon]

Also check the front balljoints. On a standard suspension set up they are easily changed but on a Sportline I believe the balljoints can only be replaced with the whole front suspension arm - which can prove expensive.

[mccrackenj]

Egbert Nobacon said:

Also check the front balljoints. On a standard suspension set up they are easily changed but on a Sportline I believe the balljoints can only be replaced with the whole front suspension arm - which can prove expensive.

Oh yes! I've already asked about that, based on something in the depths of my memory that I read on PH 2 or 3 years ago. Thanks for the reminder though.

[bolide]

I think a good Sports Chassis / Sportline car is a nice, subtle upgrade from the standard car if you mainly use it for A roads and country driving. In urban conditions, and on rough UK-standard roads, the stiffer ARB makes the car rock laterally a bit more at low speeds which can be annoying. I think journalists call this "head toss". The trade-off is between that and reduced body roll

Having had a few E320s recently I think they are a bit stiffer than an E280 as standard. Certainly they don't ride quite as well, even if they have new spheres and front wishbones. It's a small difference, though. The ride of the E300 Diesels is astonishingly good - so I imagine spring rates are a bit lower on the diesels

The fixed balljoints are on all E320s, it's not a Sports Chassis thing as I used to think. They are a horrible price from MB but acceptable from ECP. This is the only place I will use aftermarket parts

I have found rear suspension spheres are becoming a common requirement on cars I see - replacing them isn't usually particularly expensive but it makes a big difference to the overall feel of the car. It would put you off a car unless you knew what the problem was

At this age I think the car overall is more important than the options, bells & whistles. If you can find one now in the colour & spec you want you are lucky. Finding it in good shape will be more difficult so I'd concentrate on the nice cars first. I'd definitely rather have a great E280 than an average E320

Nick Froome

Edited by bolide on Thursday 3rd May 12:45

[r129sl]

bolide said:

I think a good Sports Chassis / Sportline car is a nice, subtle upgrade from the standard car if you mainly use it for A roads and country driving. In urban conditions, and on rough UK-standard roads, the stiffer ARB makes the car rock laterally a bit more at low speeds which can be annoying. I think journalists call this "head toss". The trade-off is between that and reduced body roll

You know, I wouldn't have been able to describe it but you have put your finger right on what bothered me about my TE's handling.

[bolide]

I think Sports Chassis cars are a bit more critical of the condition of bushes / spheres / tyres / ARB bushes than standard cars. So a baggy SC car may feel a bit ill at ease whereas a standard car will just feel soft. But we're talking subtle differences here, though, that most people wouldn't pick up on

The tyres are the softest spring, and the ARB the stiffest, so the condition & age of tyres & ARB bushes are critical to the ride

Nick Froome

Edited by bolide on Thursday 3rd May 19:53

[mccrackenj]

Thanks for all the advice gents, really valuable stuff from 'those that know'.