New E350: CDI vs CGI
Discussion
Hi All
I'm thinking about buying a new E-class estate. Looking at the figures the difference between the E350 diesel and petrol seem pretty small.
Official combined MPG are 41.5 vs 47.1, with extra urban being 53.3 vs 54.
Performance wise they look to be similar as well. Price wise the petrol is a little more (c.£1700)
Does anyone have experience of real world MPG and driving performance for either engine??
thanks!
I'm thinking about buying a new E-class estate. Looking at the figures the difference between the E350 diesel and petrol seem pretty small.
Official combined MPG are 41.5 vs 47.1, with extra urban being 53.3 vs 54.
Performance wise they look to be similar as well. Price wise the petrol is a little more (c.£1700)
Does anyone have experience of real world MPG and driving performance for either engine??
thanks!
Petrol is nicer than diesel. It just is. Sure the 350 CDI engine is lovely, for a diesel, but twenty years ago when there were hardly any diesels, had anyone turned out a petrol six with those characteristics, they would be laughed out of court.
The real world mpg difference is likely to be wider. I'd expect it to be more like 29mpg v 39mpg depending on how and where you drive.
The diesel torque hit is bigger. You know how it is with a big CDI: lag, immense thump, over and done with. It's hilarious at first but boring and unsatisfying after a while and quite difficult to drive smoothly. By comparison, the petrol sings up the rev range but lacks that big shove. (It pays to remember that power is torque multiplied by engine speed such that the petrol motor, notwithstanding it has a lower torque peak, nonetheless is a stronger engine.)
Try finding a petrol. Then try selling one in two years' time. You'll get crucified, I should imagine. It isn't rational for most users, but the market is head over heels with diesel.
There's a big facelift coming soon.
Neither petrol nor diesel is particularly tax efficient if that is a consideration.
Neither car is available in Britain in a sensible specification. You can have either Avantgarde or Sport. (What sport do people do with these cars?) Loosely translated, these equate to vulgar, aggressive, dark and uncomfortable (Avantgarde) and even more vulgar, aggressive, dark and uncomfortable (Sport). The Sport suspension is really, really unpleasant in everyday use yet all the morons buy it. Elegance, which plainly would most suit British roads and is, as its name suggests, rather more elegant in appearance, is regrettably unavailable here.
The real world mpg difference is likely to be wider. I'd expect it to be more like 29mpg v 39mpg depending on how and where you drive.
The diesel torque hit is bigger. You know how it is with a big CDI: lag, immense thump, over and done with. It's hilarious at first but boring and unsatisfying after a while and quite difficult to drive smoothly. By comparison, the petrol sings up the rev range but lacks that big shove. (It pays to remember that power is torque multiplied by engine speed such that the petrol motor, notwithstanding it has a lower torque peak, nonetheless is a stronger engine.)
Try finding a petrol. Then try selling one in two years' time. You'll get crucified, I should imagine. It isn't rational for most users, but the market is head over heels with diesel.
There's a big facelift coming soon.
Neither petrol nor diesel is particularly tax efficient if that is a consideration.
Neither car is available in Britain in a sensible specification. You can have either Avantgarde or Sport. (What sport do people do with these cars?) Loosely translated, these equate to vulgar, aggressive, dark and uncomfortable (Avantgarde) and even more vulgar, aggressive, dark and uncomfortable (Sport). The Sport suspension is really, really unpleasant in everyday use yet all the morons buy it. Elegance, which plainly would most suit British roads and is, as its name suggests, rather more elegant in appearance, is regrettably unavailable here.
c7xlg said:
Hi All
Official combined MPG are 41.5 vs 47.1, with extra urban being 53.3 vs 54.
Official combined MPG are 41.5 vs 47.1, with extra urban being 53.3 vs 54.
I thought you were mistaken but have just checked the Mercedes website and bizarrely, the 3 litre V6 in the E350 petrol has higher official mpg figures than my 2011 E200 which is only a 1.8 4-pot turbo!
If it's any help I probably get about 15% less than the official figures, and that's based on working out mpg myself rather than using OBC.
I'm going to skulk off now and look at E350s...
thanks for the posts guys... I'm swapping out from a 550i bmw (4.8 v8) so know all about big petrol and depreciation! I also don't like the power delivery as your describe of diesels... nothing nothing.. LOTS... nothing.
I'm planning on keeping the car for at least 5 years and 100K miles so it won't be worth that much at the end. So residuals of petrol vs derv isn't too much of a concern.
Trying to predict the future is tough, but with the current obsession with derv I think the cost difference petrol vs diesel at the pumps will only get bigger, which means the petrol e350 looks a better option.
R129... do you know when the facelift is coming? I'd hate to order a car and find out if I'd waited a couple of months I could have got the facelifted model...
I'm planning on keeping the car for at least 5 years and 100K miles so it won't be worth that much at the end. So residuals of petrol vs derv isn't too much of a concern.
Trying to predict the future is tough, but with the current obsession with derv I think the cost difference petrol vs diesel at the pumps will only get bigger, which means the petrol e350 looks a better option.
R129... do you know when the facelift is coming? I'd hate to order a car and find out if I'd waited a couple of months I could have got the facelifted model...
r129sl said:
Neither car is available in Britain in a sensible specification. You can have either Avantgarde or Sport. (What sport do people do with these cars?) Loosely translated, these equate to vulgar, aggressive, dark and uncomfortable (Avantgarde) and even more vulgar, aggressive, dark and uncomfortable (Sport).
That's just personal opinion however isn't it?!My Avantgarde estate has an excellent compromise of ride and handling in my opinion, and even with black leather interior the light grey headlining and large amount of glass in no way makes for a dark interior. The wheels aren't too big, the front grille and traditional star quite elegant, the only agressive thing are the DRLs which can be turned off in the OBC.
The Sport, now I'll agree they are agressive and uncomfortable!
The facelift is coming within a year it seems, probably for 2014 model year, which means summer 2013. If you do a google search you will find that general opinion is it will be extensive, with the twin headlamps and natty Ponton rear wheel arch going the distance. MB design really is flailing about these days: someone get Bruno Sacco to come out of retirement.
http://www.germancarforum.com/community/threads/me...
http://benzboost.com/content.php?2209-W212-E-class...
Sorry for the contentious personal opinion. Taste is a matter of taste and all that. The AG trim is pretty good, so much so that every now and then I nearly commit to buying one, but it just pisses me off that you can't get the brown/beige interior in the UK, you have to have black. I really can't see the point of Sport trim: I mean, why pretend a big luxury saloon is a sports car?
OP: you can't get a 500 petrol anymore in the UK, either, although you might be able to get one on special order as they still make it, I think with the 4.5litre twin turbo V8 out of the new SL500, S500 and CL500, not the old 5.5 NA motor.
http://www.germancarforum.com/community/threads/me...
http://benzboost.com/content.php?2209-W212-E-class...
Sorry for the contentious personal opinion. Taste is a matter of taste and all that. The AG trim is pretty good, so much so that every now and then I nearly commit to buying one, but it just pisses me off that you can't get the brown/beige interior in the UK, you have to have black. I really can't see the point of Sport trim: I mean, why pretend a big luxury saloon is a sports car?
OP: you can't get a 500 petrol anymore in the UK, either, although you might be able to get one on special order as they still make it, I think with the 4.5litre twin turbo V8 out of the new SL500, S500 and CL500, not the old 5.5 NA motor.
After test driving a few cars I've placed on order.
Test drove A6 Bi-turbo diesel. It is a very nice car, with best on-board systems (sat-nav, reversing cameras etc etc, but expensive.
Jag XF-S (275bhp disel). Estate (sportbrake) wasn't available so drove a saloon. Best handling car out of all the cars I drove. But too small inside for me, and really didnt' feel as fast as 275bhp should have.
E350 CGI. 2010 model so not exactly the same engine/gear box as new model. Drove very nicely, but left me a little underwhelmed.
E350 CDI. 'new' demonstator. Even though 265 vs 300+bhp or the CGI it is as quicker, feels quicker due to power band, and gave high 30s compared to low 20s mpg on the rest route, and is £1500 cheaper.
So given the good deal offered by the Dealer I've ordered a E350CDI avantgarde estate with a few options (DAP, HK, DAB etc etc. Just need to resist the Brabus D6 power upgrade to bring it up to A6 bi-turbo power levels until at least the first service!
Test drove A6 Bi-turbo diesel. It is a very nice car, with best on-board systems (sat-nav, reversing cameras etc etc, but expensive.
Jag XF-S (275bhp disel). Estate (sportbrake) wasn't available so drove a saloon. Best handling car out of all the cars I drove. But too small inside for me, and really didnt' feel as fast as 275bhp should have.
E350 CGI. 2010 model so not exactly the same engine/gear box as new model. Drove very nicely, but left me a little underwhelmed.
E350 CDI. 'new' demonstator. Even though 265 vs 300+bhp or the CGI it is as quicker, feels quicker due to power band, and gave high 30s compared to low 20s mpg on the rest route, and is £1500 cheaper.
So given the good deal offered by the Dealer I've ordered a E350CDI avantgarde estate with a few options (DAP, HK, DAB etc etc. Just need to resist the Brabus D6 power upgrade to bring it up to A6 bi-turbo power levels until at least the first service!
Nice one and get the Brabus upgrade asap!...Its the D6S kit on the 265 not the D6....Had mine on since it had its PDI. Regular power with more torque in eco but the full monty 313hp in S mode. Mine lives in S mode and still returns 45mpg on a fast motorway run. 
Ive not noticed any lag with the 350 unit and its happy to rev which kind of negates alot of the normal diesel critisisms.
Only problem I find with it is that its just too refined and quiet.
Enjoy!
Ive not noticed any lag with the 350 unit and its happy to rev which kind of negates alot of the normal diesel critisisms.
Only problem I find with it is that its just too refined and quiet.
Enjoy!
I've got the 350 CDI engine and there is definitely some turbo lag, which I find increasingly annoying. It is better in this respect than my previous CLK 320 CDI, but still much in evidence. Why MB don't do what BMW do and fit the engine with twin turbos (one small and one big) to overcome this issue, I don't know. For me, it spoils an otherwise great car.
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