W124 refusing to start or idle - ideas?
Discussion
Hi all
Just copying this from my earlier thread about W124 engine numbers.
The 230TE is very reluctant to start and when started will splutter and die if I let the revs drop below about 2k, so obviously I can't drive it.
Not sure what the problem is to be honest, diagnostics is not my strong point.
The problem started when I had to take it to work about 2 weeks ago when it ran very roughly at low revs on and wouldn't accelerate at all until it got above about 1500 revs, when it was fine, but when the revs dropped, e.g. a junctions etc it really struggled to pick up again. After work it started fine and drove home normally.
The car then sat for nearly 2 weeks (it's not used every day) and when I next got in it it just refused to start, eventually running down the battery. So I charged the battery fully and had another go last Saturday. Eventually after a lot of attempts and a lot or cranking & pressing accelerator to the floor it finally 'caught' and then it would rev perfectly well up to 5000 revs or more and sit at anything over 2000 revs quite happily - but when I let the revs drop much below 2000 it just died. Got it started again, with difficulty, but it just wouldn't idle or run at all below about 2k. Haven't tried anything else since.
Any ideas welcome.
Thanks
John
mccrackenj said:
Hopefully not too modern, it's 1992.
I think you still need an auto electrician or possibly a handy mechanic. The symptoms could be caused by so many different faults. Obvious questions are fuel supply and ignition problems. Eliminate as many as possible. If I had the problem the auto electrician I use would be round for coffee. He has saved me a fortune with my stable currently 12 cars. Then again I helped him start up his business 30 years ago. Good luck again
SuperHangOn said:
Have you checked the ignition basics? cap, leads etc. Moisture can play havoc.
go easy on the cranking, you don't want to burn out the starter
From the fact that it will run quite happily at higher revs once it started I assumed that I could rule out fuel problems. No?go easy on the cranking, you don't want to burn out the starter
Edited by SuperHangOn on Friday 28th December 12:52
My 1st thought was to wip off the distributor cap and have a look, but the 2 screws are so tight I couldn't move them and didn't want to force it too much.
Next thought was to buy a new cap and rotor arm and fit them anyway, but ECP/GSF etc list different caps & arms depending on whether or not the car has a cat, so I need to confirm that 1st. I can't just get underneath and look as the car is stranded on the street.
Note your warning re burning out the starter, I'll be careful. Thanks.
mccrackenj said:
Hi all
Just copying this from my earlier thread about W124 engine numbers.
The 230TE is very reluctant to start and when started will splutter and die if I let the revs drop below about 2k, so obviously I can't drive it.
Not sure what the problem is to be honest, diagnostics is not my strong point.
The problem started when I had to take it to work about 2 weeks ago when it ran very roughly at low revs on and wouldn't accelerate at all until it got above about 1500 revs, when it was fine, but when the revs dropped, e.g. a junctions etc it really struggled to pick up again. After work it started fine and drove home normally.
The car then sat for nearly 2 weeks (it's not used every day) and when I next got in it it just refused to start, eventually running down the battery. So I charged the battery fully and had another go last Saturday. Eventually after a lot of attempts and a lot or cranking & pressing accelerator to the floor it finally 'caught' and then it would rev perfectly well up to 5000 revs or more and sit at anything over 2000 revs quite happily - but when I let the revs drop much below 2000 it just died. Got it started again, with difficulty, but it just wouldn't idle or run at all below about 2k. Haven't tried anything else since.
Any ideas welcome.
Thanks
John
It sounds much more like a vacuum leak in the fuel system. Your car runs K Jet and any air leaks in the rubber hosing or bellows on the air flow unit will give those symptoms.Just copying this from my earlier thread about W124 engine numbers.
The 230TE is very reluctant to start and when started will splutter and die if I let the revs drop below about 2k, so obviously I can't drive it.
Not sure what the problem is to be honest, diagnostics is not my strong point.
The problem started when I had to take it to work about 2 weeks ago when it ran very roughly at low revs on and wouldn't accelerate at all until it got above about 1500 revs, when it was fine, but when the revs dropped, e.g. a junctions etc it really struggled to pick up again. After work it started fine and drove home normally.
The car then sat for nearly 2 weeks (it's not used every day) and when I next got in it it just refused to start, eventually running down the battery. So I charged the battery fully and had another go last Saturday. Eventually after a lot of attempts and a lot or cranking & pressing accelerator to the floor it finally 'caught' and then it would rev perfectly well up to 5000 revs or more and sit at anything over 2000 revs quite happily - but when I let the revs drop much below 2000 it just died. Got it started again, with difficulty, but it just wouldn't idle or run at all below about 2k. Haven't tried anything else since.
Any ideas welcome.
Thanks
John
Check everything from the air filter casing to the fuel unit and all the vacuum hoses on the inlet manifold. Also check the insulator that the fuel unit is mounted on to the manifold. They have a habit of splitting.
J
jith said:
It sounds much more like a vacuum leak in the fuel system. Your car runs K Jet and any air leaks in the rubber hosing or bellows on the air flow unit will give those symptoms.
Check everything from the air filter casing to the fuel unit and all the vacuum hoses on the inlet manifold. Also check the insulator that the fuel unit is mounted on to the manifold. They have a habit of splitting.
J
Thanks for that James, if the rain ever stops I'll have a look around the hoses etc.Check everything from the air filter casing to the fuel unit and all the vacuum hoses on the inlet manifold. Also check the insulator that the fuel unit is mounted on to the manifold. They have a habit of splitting.
J
Well, an update.
I've just taken the entire air filter housing off and had a look around - no sign of split hoses or anything loose.
Decided to try starting the car and it started 1st time and ran perfectly. Unfortunately I didn't try starting before I took everything off so don't know if it's just coincidence, but I've now reassembled everything and gone for a short run, and everything appears normal. Still ticks over a bit too low but was doing that beforehand.
As they say, go figure?
Question is, is the problem 'solved' or will it happen again, just when I least expect/want it?
I've just taken the entire air filter housing off and had a look around - no sign of split hoses or anything loose.
Decided to try starting the car and it started 1st time and ran perfectly. Unfortunately I didn't try starting before I took everything off so don't know if it's just coincidence, but I've now reassembled everything and gone for a short run, and everything appears normal. Still ticks over a bit too low but was doing that beforehand.
As they say, go figure?
Question is, is the problem 'solved' or will it happen again, just when I least expect/want it?
iluvmercs said:
While it seems like I may be a bit late to the party, I think it's worth mentioning my old 230E had the exact same problem and it turned out to be the distributor cap issue already mentioned above.
Hopefully it won't rear it's ugly head again, but if so, give that a check
Darren
Cheers DarrenHopefully it won't rear it's ugly head again, but if so, give that a check
Darren
I think I'll just replace cap & rotor arm anyway, and treat it to a new air filter while I'm at it.
No problem Jonathan, that's fine.
It started and ran fine last weekend so I got it moved onto driveway and jacked up and had a look, and it it does appear to have a cat, at least I assume it was a cat.
Chamber about 9/10 inches by 6 inches at the end of the downpipe, roughly under driver's seat, with what I assume was an O2 sensor before it.
It started and ran fine last weekend so I got it moved onto driveway and jacked up and had a look, and it it does appear to have a cat, at least I assume it was a cat.
Chamber about 9/10 inches by 6 inches at the end of the downpipe, roughly under driver's seat, with what I assume was an O2 sensor before it.
mccrackenj said:
Well a new distributor cap & rotor arm fitted and (fingers crossed) it seems to be fine now. Think I'll treat it to a new coil soon, just in case.
Coil isn't a common fail, wouldn't bother myself. I would whip the ignition lead out of the coil and check that the contact on the coil isn't furred up though. WD40 and an old toothbrush is all you need. SuperHangOn said:
mccrackenj said:
Well a new distributor cap & rotor arm fitted and (fingers crossed) it seems to be fine now. Think I'll treat it to a new coil soon, just in case.
Coil isn't a common fail, wouldn't bother myself. I would whip the ignition lead out of the coil and check that the contact on the coil isn't furred up though. WD40 and an old toothbrush is all you need. But, would it not be worthwhile to replace it anyway, on the basis that I don't know how old it is and it could possibly be original, hence 21 years old?
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