C63 DECISIONS - HELP!
Discussion
Ladies & Gents,
It's been quite some time since I've been on this forum! To be honest having been driving round in a RRS Supercharged - followed by a less manic TDV8 version for the past few years I've not felt the need to e part of the community as it were :-(
Even though I would recommend the RRS - I've not really felt that excitement and thrill of owning and running a special car!
Any way - enough of the excuses - I'm now back with enthusiasm due to an order I placed yesterday for a C63 AMG Coupe. !!
HOWEVER - before I finalise the option list I need some personal opinion and advice please guys.
I've ordered the "basic" coupe. No PP+ option or LSD. Is this a mistake?
In trying to justify my decision - I'm of the opinion that they're very expensive extras for the following reasons - BUT am I right??
The Power Pack option gives an extra 30BHP - and I drove the demonstrator WITH it (it was a great drive) - but is it really worth it?
Is there THAT much difference between the basic 457BHP car and the 487BHP vehicle with the PP when it comes to driving the C63?
Can us mere mortal non-professional drivers honestly tell the difference?
Figures suggest that the 0-62 time decreases by a whole "point 2" of a second! That might be important on a track day - but I certainly won't be doing that.
I'm not sure that the residual value is positively effected either. After two or three years - from what I can see - there may be only a £1000 or so difference between the values of a "basic" car and one with a Power Pack. However I do agree that like most "extras" it MAY make the car more desirable when I come to sell it.
Any way - £5200 (or @144 per month) is a lot of money to pay to add a bit of extra Ooomph to a car that already has plenty. However I stand to be corrected.
Okay - now the LSD. I have read in these forums that some fellow "Pistonheaders" consider that this option is the most important. Really?
Please could some kind people give their thoughts on this - and their opinion as to whether it's worth the extra £1800.
Wheels: - I did order some 19" multi-spoke alloys - but having read the seemingly very informed opinion of contributors on this forum - I am of a very strong mind to change the order back to 18" wheels. Much like my old BMW M3 from years ago - it appears that the opinion is that the C63 drives better with the 18" wheels. Something to do with the feedback from the suspension?
Finally - insurance. I've done the usual searches - come up with quotes - but personal recommendation is always valued and will be most welcome.
Thank you VERY much indeed folks. I want to make the right decisions on options for sure - but can I justify the extra thousands of pounds - so your opinions and comments are gratefully received.
"I used to be decisive - but now I'm not so sure"!!
Kind regards
M
It's been quite some time since I've been on this forum! To be honest having been driving round in a RRS Supercharged - followed by a less manic TDV8 version for the past few years I've not felt the need to e part of the community as it were :-(
Even though I would recommend the RRS - I've not really felt that excitement and thrill of owning and running a special car!
Any way - enough of the excuses - I'm now back with enthusiasm due to an order I placed yesterday for a C63 AMG Coupe. !!
HOWEVER - before I finalise the option list I need some personal opinion and advice please guys.
I've ordered the "basic" coupe. No PP+ option or LSD. Is this a mistake?
In trying to justify my decision - I'm of the opinion that they're very expensive extras for the following reasons - BUT am I right??
The Power Pack option gives an extra 30BHP - and I drove the demonstrator WITH it (it was a great drive) - but is it really worth it?
Is there THAT much difference between the basic 457BHP car and the 487BHP vehicle with the PP when it comes to driving the C63?
Can us mere mortal non-professional drivers honestly tell the difference?
Figures suggest that the 0-62 time decreases by a whole "point 2" of a second! That might be important on a track day - but I certainly won't be doing that.
I'm not sure that the residual value is positively effected either. After two or three years - from what I can see - there may be only a £1000 or so difference between the values of a "basic" car and one with a Power Pack. However I do agree that like most "extras" it MAY make the car more desirable when I come to sell it.
Any way - £5200 (or @144 per month) is a lot of money to pay to add a bit of extra Ooomph to a car that already has plenty. However I stand to be corrected.
Okay - now the LSD. I have read in these forums that some fellow "Pistonheaders" consider that this option is the most important. Really?
Please could some kind people give their thoughts on this - and their opinion as to whether it's worth the extra £1800.
Wheels: - I did order some 19" multi-spoke alloys - but having read the seemingly very informed opinion of contributors on this forum - I am of a very strong mind to change the order back to 18" wheels. Much like my old BMW M3 from years ago - it appears that the opinion is that the C63 drives better with the 18" wheels. Something to do with the feedback from the suspension?
Finally - insurance. I've done the usual searches - come up with quotes - but personal recommendation is always valued and will be most welcome.
Thank you VERY much indeed folks. I want to make the right decisions on options for sure - but can I justify the extra thousands of pounds - so your opinions and comments are gratefully received.
"I used to be decisive - but now I'm not so sure"!!
Kind regards
M
Im only a novice in the C63 field myself but here is what i can offer thus far:
The PP+ pack is noticeable, no doubt about it. I drove a good dozen C63's before buying one and found that all were a bit of a let down compared to the 2007 BMW E61 M5 is was running at the time of testing them out. They lacked the buzz and gut squeezing acceleration of the //M-Wagon and that was a big thing for me. Then one day i took the wife to test a 2011 P31 PP+ car at my local dealer and the difference between that and the standard car was enough to sway my decision. The wife loved it and so did i. Ive just picked up (3 weeks ago) a 10k mile 60 plate P31 C63 Saloon with PP+........ but crucially no LSD! The difference between the P30 and the P31 is night and day in my eyes, but maybe because i already knew what 10.3s to 100mph felt like with the M5. The standard P30 does 0-100 in 10.3 but the P31 does 9.3s to 100mph and thats where the difference is.
Ref the LSD, my car as said above doesnt have one. Have i noticed the difference (ive driven a good number with both options but never back to back)? No! Would i notice if i suddenly got one fitted? Im not so sure. A few of us are trying to work out whether the LSD is just bravado / hype vs performance or if it actually is worth the outlay. Everyone who has one seems to think that its the be-all-and-end-all option without actually trying out both options in the same environment. Much talk of theory but no actual hard facts. Us without the LSD struggle to see where our cars would improve as we've seen no situations where our cars have let us down. The standard traction electronics are good enough in my opinion and the only thing the LSD does is save rear pad wear a little as the electric gubbins in the non-LSD car control the use of the rear brakes to even out wheel rotation. Even with the traction control FULLY OFF the non-LSD car has no issue. The difference between the non-LSD and the LSD car is that with an LSD the reduced axle slip would mean there would be less for the rear brakes to do. With the pads in mind: A set of rear pads are quite cheap and you'd need to go through a fair few sets to meet the cost of the LSD. But, on top of that the LSD is not maintenance free like a Quaife diff would be, the Merc one is a friction diff whereas the Quaife one is gear based. The OEM Merc diff needs servicing and that is only going to put up the cost of having it fitted. So, the choice is yours and id suggest the benefits, if there are any would only be found on the track. They are aggressive in slippery conditions and can lead to more tail-out in the wet. The rumours about lame 1-wheel spins are false also. My car has no issue getting both wheels to spin up so i dont see what the problem or necessity is. Im going to test an LSD car back to back with my own as soon as mine is back from the bodyshop and i'll write up what i find.
Im sure there will be LSD fans along shortly to tell me im wrong but i'd like some proof if there is any.
Ref the wheels: The 19"s are fine on the road. Its a firm ride for sure, but no firer than the likes of an M3 / M5. Only the addition of AMG Sport Suspension is cause for concern, hence very few with PP+ spec it. On your car you will be fine.
Good luck and enjoy.
Eddie
The PP+ pack is noticeable, no doubt about it. I drove a good dozen C63's before buying one and found that all were a bit of a let down compared to the 2007 BMW E61 M5 is was running at the time of testing them out. They lacked the buzz and gut squeezing acceleration of the //M-Wagon and that was a big thing for me. Then one day i took the wife to test a 2011 P31 PP+ car at my local dealer and the difference between that and the standard car was enough to sway my decision. The wife loved it and so did i. Ive just picked up (3 weeks ago) a 10k mile 60 plate P31 C63 Saloon with PP+........ but crucially no LSD! The difference between the P30 and the P31 is night and day in my eyes, but maybe because i already knew what 10.3s to 100mph felt like with the M5. The standard P30 does 0-100 in 10.3 but the P31 does 9.3s to 100mph and thats where the difference is.
Ref the LSD, my car as said above doesnt have one. Have i noticed the difference (ive driven a good number with both options but never back to back)? No! Would i notice if i suddenly got one fitted? Im not so sure. A few of us are trying to work out whether the LSD is just bravado / hype vs performance or if it actually is worth the outlay. Everyone who has one seems to think that its the be-all-and-end-all option without actually trying out both options in the same environment. Much talk of theory but no actual hard facts. Us without the LSD struggle to see where our cars would improve as we've seen no situations where our cars have let us down. The standard traction electronics are good enough in my opinion and the only thing the LSD does is save rear pad wear a little as the electric gubbins in the non-LSD car control the use of the rear brakes to even out wheel rotation. Even with the traction control FULLY OFF the non-LSD car has no issue. The difference between the non-LSD and the LSD car is that with an LSD the reduced axle slip would mean there would be less for the rear brakes to do. With the pads in mind: A set of rear pads are quite cheap and you'd need to go through a fair few sets to meet the cost of the LSD. But, on top of that the LSD is not maintenance free like a Quaife diff would be, the Merc one is a friction diff whereas the Quaife one is gear based. The OEM Merc diff needs servicing and that is only going to put up the cost of having it fitted. So, the choice is yours and id suggest the benefits, if there are any would only be found on the track. They are aggressive in slippery conditions and can lead to more tail-out in the wet. The rumours about lame 1-wheel spins are false also. My car has no issue getting both wheels to spin up so i dont see what the problem or necessity is. Im going to test an LSD car back to back with my own as soon as mine is back from the bodyshop and i'll write up what i find.
Im sure there will be LSD fans along shortly to tell me im wrong but i'd like some proof if there is any.
Ref the wheels: The 19"s are fine on the road. Its a firm ride for sure, but no firer than the likes of an M3 / M5. Only the addition of AMG Sport Suspension is cause for concern, hence very few with PP+ spec it. On your car you will be fine.
Good luck and enjoy.
Eddie
My C63 has the PPP option, with LSD. IMHO the PPP is definitely worth having (and also increases your 3 year GFV by about 3k I believe). It seems Mercedes are somewhat conservative with their claim of the additional 30bhp, as most cars will be pushing out around 500bhp (Palmball's C63 PPP was dynoed at 507bhp stock!). The straight line performance is quite frankly insane 
I know there is controversy about the LSD option but I chose to spec it as I could 'feel' it working in tighter corners on my test drive. I'm sure the LSD would provide a traction benefit too, but whether you would notice it on the road I don't know.
Regarding wheels, my car has the 19" wheels and the AMG performance suspension. It's a firm ride (probably equivalent to the medium "normal" EDC setting on my old E90 M3) but it's not unbearable and does significantly improve handling. The demonstrator I test drove was on 18s without the performance suspension - quite a comfortable ride but it was a bit wallowy in the corners. Depends what you're after really.
Good luck and keep us updated
I know there is controversy about the LSD option but I chose to spec it as I could 'feel' it working in tighter corners on my test drive. I'm sure the LSD would provide a traction benefit too, but whether you would notice it on the road I don't know.
Regarding wheels, my car has the 19" wheels and the AMG performance suspension. It's a firm ride (probably equivalent to the medium "normal" EDC setting on my old E90 M3) but it's not unbearable and does significantly improve handling. The demonstrator I test drove was on 18s without the performance suspension - quite a comfortable ride but it was a bit wallowy in the corners. Depends what you're after really.
Good luck and keep us updated
marky1 said:
You can get a tune from the likes of Eurocharged for under £1000 and the ability to change it back to standard before you bring to the dealer. I think it raises HP to 500+. Whilst I have the PP on mine I can also see the sense in getting standard and tuning it instead.
PP+ car has a freer revving engine thanks to the SLS parts though. What is the dfference between P30 and P31? is that the facelift after 2011?
Is it true that all pre fl cars with PP have the lsd as standard whereas the new ones have it as an option
Does anybody know what exactly the differences in the sppedshift box pre and post fl are?
Sorry to hijack but thinking about a c3 too at the mo - just worried about the proce hike betweeen pre and post fl
Is it true that all pre fl cars with PP have the lsd as standard whereas the new ones have it as an option
Does anybody know what exactly the differences in the sppedshift box pre and post fl are?
Sorry to hijack but thinking about a c3 too at the mo - just worried about the proce hike betweeen pre and post fl
cramorra said:
What is the dfference between P30 and P31? is that the facelift after 2011?
Is it true that all pre fl cars with PP have the lsd as standard whereas the new ones have it as an option
Does anybody know what exactly the differences in the sppedshift box pre and post fl are?
Sorry to hijack but thinking about a c3 too at the mo - just worried about the proce hike betweeen pre and post fl
P30 is the standard 457bhp engine. P31 is the PP+ 487bhp (more like 500bhp) engine with the SLS bits.Is it true that all pre fl cars with PP have the lsd as standard whereas the new ones have it as an option
Does anybody know what exactly the differences in the sppedshift box pre and post fl are?
Sorry to hijack but thinking about a c3 too at the mo - just worried about the proce hike betweeen pre and post fl
Pre-facelift box has torque converter 7-Speed Autobox. Post-facelift has multi-clutch (clutch used only for pulling away, not for shifting) 7-Speed Autobox that had the throttle blip feature and slightly quicker changes.
All PP cars pre 2011 had the LSD, steering wheel and suspension upgrade as part of the package. PP+ cars have 30bhp increase, steering wheel and carbon / leather extras as standard but LSD and suspension are an option. All post-facelift have the LSD and suspension bits as options.
Regarding both the PP and the LSD, the only way to know is to try them. I am one of the 'LSD is the be all and end all' types (
) but then again I have driven cars with and without the LSD back-to-back (also 18" vs 19" wheels and PP vs non-PP back-to-back).
Is there a noticeable difference on all the above? Yes, definitely.
) but then again I have driven cars with and without the LSD back-to-back (also 18" vs 19" wheels and PP vs non-PP back-to-back).Is there a noticeable difference on all the above? Yes, definitely.
Gents - thanks so much for your opinion and advice. Some very good points made - and really very much appreciated
Now more importantly - you can all feel guilty for costing me in excess of £5k !!! There was I feeling all proud of myself that I was being sensible and restrained by not purchasing the Power Pack - but hey - after just a few posts and over a weekend of non-stop deliberation - I've succumbed to the temptation.
I've completely justified it in my head - and I'm now working out a way of telling the "Mrs".
Or perhaps I just won't
BTW - just for interest - I found this on Youtube!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPjE9mZhc6Y
The only decision I'm still struggling with is the size of wheel. Are the 19" wheels a bit uncomfortable - or is it worth putting up with them for the aesthetics?
Cheers
M
Now more importantly - you can all feel guilty for costing me in excess of £5k !!! There was I feeling all proud of myself that I was being sensible and restrained by not purchasing the Power Pack - but hey - after just a few posts and over a weekend of non-stop deliberation - I've succumbed to the temptation.
I've completely justified it in my head - and I'm now working out a way of telling the "Mrs".
Or perhaps I just won't
BTW - just for interest - I found this on Youtube!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPjE9mZhc6Y
The only decision I'm still struggling with is the size of wheel. Are the 19" wheels a bit uncomfortable - or is it worth putting up with them for the aesthetics?
Cheers
M
Having owned both, you have made the right decision. The PP Plus is noticeably faster and, as mentioned above, I had my standard car dyno'd at 507bhp. It felt like it had every one of those horses too.
The composite brakes are also good, if not in the league of proper ceramics and the half alcantara steering wheel is a delight. The £5k is well worth it (but in reality, isn't it just £2k plus interest if it increases the MGFV by £3k....unless you end up keeping the car of course, where you'll end up paying it all).
The composite brakes are also good, if not in the league of proper ceramics and the half alcantara steering wheel is a delight. The £5k is well worth it (but in reality, isn't it just £2k plus interest if it increases the MGFV by £3k....unless you end up keeping the car of course, where you'll end up paying it all).
If you are unlikely to regularly switch off your TC and drift your C63 on the road, or take it on a track day then you might not miss the LSD. of you leave the electronics on all the time, then you ca probably save your money for something else.
£5k for 500hp with warranty....or £700 from Eurocharged for 500 hp...you have to make your own mind up.... there is a difference but only really from 4500 up.
Ride on 18s and stock suspension is IMO a very good compromise. Sure the damping could be firmer for track use...but the stock set up is perfectly adequate for the occasional track day......but lets face it the C63 is not designed for great lap times...
I live in the car crime hotspot of the world, so I also wanted a sleeper look (de-badged and 18s) and a young fitter at a tyre dealer recently asked me if it was petrol or diesel....
whatever you choose its a great great car...
£5k for 500hp with warranty....or £700 from Eurocharged for 500 hp...you have to make your own mind up.... there is a difference but only really from 4500 up.
Ride on 18s and stock suspension is IMO a very good compromise. Sure the damping could be firmer for track use...but the stock set up is perfectly adequate for the occasional track day......but lets face it the C63 is not designed for great lap times...
I live in the car crime hotspot of the world, so I also wanted a sleeper look (de-badged and 18s) and a young fitter at a tyre dealer recently asked me if it was petrol or diesel....
whatever you choose its a great great car...
Gassing Station | Mercedes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff