Mercedes CL 500 & 600 - thoughts?
Discussion
I am considering a Mercedes CL 500 or 600. I quite like the older tank like S-Class based model, or the more curvaceous round light version. Up to £8k please.
On all versions... which are most reliable? I'd like to avoid mega bills if possible!
In the older model is the 4 litre a bit gutless?
Thanks all
On all versions... which are most reliable? I'd like to avoid mega bills if possible!
In the older model is the 4 litre a bit gutless?
Thanks all
k-ink said:
I am considering a Mercedes CL 500 or 600. I quite like the older tank like S-Class based model, or the more curvaceous round light version. Up to £8k please.
On all versions... which are most reliable? I'd like to avoid mega bills if possible!
In the older model is the 4 litre a bit gutless?
Thanks all
Helps if you're a bit more specific. They're all S-Class based. On all versions... which are most reliable? I'd like to avoid mega bills if possible!
In the older model is the 4 litre a bit gutless?
Thanks all
I presume you are talking about the C140 as the older tank-like one:
And the C215 as the newer one:
If you want to avoid mega-bills, then the 600 V12 is out. They are trickier to work on as they fill the engine bay, they are more likely to have issues (although decent units in themselves) and you have a 50% increase in cylinders, and therefore plugs etc.
Undoubtedly the older C140 has the vastly better reputation for reliability - that is why the newer C215 is getting cheaper than the 140.
The M119 V8 in the C140 has a very good reputation, and everything else tends to be very reliable in them too. The newer C215 have a worse reputation for going wrong (both mechanically and electrically), and have more serious rust issues. Having said that, they are newer, and so you will have fewer age-related failures. They are also lighter and more economical, so you will have less need to replace suspension components, and you will use much less fuel.
In terms of the 420 engine in the older W140, the picture above is of my CL420. It is perfectly adequate, and doesn't ever feel gutless. I would have preferred to get a 500 for the extra 40 horses, but they all seemed to be expensive or rough - but with your £8k budget, you can get a very good one. Mine was £3,600 for a 93,000 mile 420 in decent (although not perfect) condition. The 420 was also half the cost to insure, and fractionally more economical (19mpg average rather than 18).
Computer controlled suspension scares me, which is what puts me off the C215 CL most. A friend has had to repair the suspension on two S-Classes he owned at great cost over the years...
The C140 is a gorgeous design imo (especially from the back), and I love that classic Benz interior. I think overall, it would be less likely to go wrong (based on nothing more than it's lower complexity).
The C140 is a gorgeous design imo (especially from the back), and I love that classic Benz interior. I think overall, it would be less likely to go wrong (based on nothing more than it's lower complexity).
Thanks a lot. So on the older shape (C140)...
The 500 seems to be a winner as it is only 1mpg worse. But is it madness to spend more than £4k on any of these? I have seen a great 500 for £7k. But it is 3k more than others (including a mint 4 litre example) and I am not sure why yet. The seller is firm on his price.
Also what is the difference between an S500 coupe and a CL500? (C140)
The 500 seems to be a winner as it is only 1mpg worse. But is it madness to spend more than £4k on any of these? I have seen a great 500 for £7k. But it is 3k more than others (including a mint 4 litre example) and I am not sure why yet. The seller is firm on his price.
Also what is the difference between an S500 coupe and a CL500? (C140)
Edited by k-ink on Friday 19th April 15:26
k-ink said:
Thanks a lot. So on the older shape (C140)...
The 500 seems to be a winner as it is only 1mpg worse. But is it madness to spend more than £4k on any of these? I have seen a great 500 for £7k. But it is 3k more than others (including a mint 4 litre example) and I am not sure why yet. The seller is firm on his price.
Also what is the difference between an S500 coupe and a CL500? (C140)
I think they were called CL500 early in the models life then when Mercedes nomenclature changed the name changed from CLXXX to SXXX coupe. The larger cars also changed from 500 SEL to S500L at this time, many earlier cars were re-badged when in for routine services so rare to find W/C140s with the original badging.The 500 seems to be a winner as it is only 1mpg worse. But is it madness to spend more than £4k on any of these? I have seen a great 500 for £7k. But it is 3k more than others (including a mint 4 litre example) and I am not sure why yet. The seller is firm on his price.
Also what is the difference between an S500 coupe and a CL500? (C140)
Edited by k-ink on Friday 19th April 15:26
It was technically the S-Class coupe until 1996. So pre-facelift ones will be S500 Coupe, newer ones will be CLs.
The pre-facelift didn't have parking sensors, and had a crap wiring loom (which will almost certainly have been replaced by now). They also had air con rather than climate control.
In reality, the 420 will never have the cachet of the 500, despite being not very far off the pace. And therefore the 500 will always hold its value better. There was a low mileage, immaculate, blue CL500 at Avantgarde last year for £13,500, and it sold.
I would expect to pay roughly £6k for a CL500 in the same state as a £4k CL420. And £8-£10k for a similar standard CL600 (they are very rare, and don't often come up for sale).
You tend to find that silver ones are in the bottom of the price range, as there's so many of them, and darker colours are more valuable.
In terms of price, you have to pay what you feel comfortable with. There aren't many around, but there isn't a huge demand for them. However, sellers of a good one who hold to their price will generally get it. I got mine pretty much exactly a year ago for £3,600 inc. tax. At the time, there were two dark coloured 420 in the classifieds - mine, and another at £3k. At the moment, the cheapest one is just under £4k.
I guess the easiest comparison is to 1980s C126 SECs. There is a 560SEC (the CL600 of its day) currently for sale for about £8k, and a couple of 500s for £6-£7k. 420s are more like £3-£5k. Based on that, if the C140 holds its value in the same way, £7k shouldn't be silly money for a real peach. But get it thoroughly checked first (most importantly, include an aircon leak test - if the condenser is leaking it is a £3k job to fix), and look at the history.
The pre-facelift didn't have parking sensors, and had a crap wiring loom (which will almost certainly have been replaced by now). They also had air con rather than climate control.
In reality, the 420 will never have the cachet of the 500, despite being not very far off the pace. And therefore the 500 will always hold its value better. There was a low mileage, immaculate, blue CL500 at Avantgarde last year for £13,500, and it sold.
I would expect to pay roughly £6k for a CL500 in the same state as a £4k CL420. And £8-£10k for a similar standard CL600 (they are very rare, and don't often come up for sale).
You tend to find that silver ones are in the bottom of the price range, as there's so many of them, and darker colours are more valuable.
In terms of price, you have to pay what you feel comfortable with. There aren't many around, but there isn't a huge demand for them. However, sellers of a good one who hold to their price will generally get it. I got mine pretty much exactly a year ago for £3,600 inc. tax. At the time, there were two dark coloured 420 in the classifieds - mine, and another at £3k. At the moment, the cheapest one is just under £4k.
I guess the easiest comparison is to 1980s C126 SECs. There is a 560SEC (the CL600 of its day) currently for sale for about £8k, and a couple of 500s for £6-£7k. 420s are more like £3-£5k. Based on that, if the C140 holds its value in the same way, £7k shouldn't be silly money for a real peach. But get it thoroughly checked first (most importantly, include an aircon leak test - if the condenser is leaking it is a £3k job to fix), and look at the history.
Dominicc01 said:
It was technically the S-Class coupe until 1996. So pre-facelift ones will be S500 Coupe, newer ones will be CLs.
Also they would have been the 500 SEC for the first year of its life (seems I was confused in my previous post but thought they had an early name change just looked it up)k-ink said:
But is it madness to spend more than £4k on any of these? I have seen a great 500 for £7k. But it is 3k more than others (including a mint 4 litre example) and I am not sure why yet. The seller is firm on his price.
I find a lot of private sellers overvalue their cars because of what they paid for it - especially when bought from new. Daft really as 99.9% of cars are depreciating assets so when it's time to sell you want to shift it as quickly as possible, not hang onto it for 6 months hanging out for the buyer willing to pay a crazy price.If it was me with a budget of £8k, I'd spend £5k on the car, £1k on the little jobs that are bound to need doing & bank the £2k as a "just in case" fund.
Lovely car though whichever one you go for
Dominicc01 said:
aircon leak test - if the condenser is leaking it is a £3k job to fix), and look at the history.
Jesus! That is a crazy price. Why so much? Is that main dealer prices for taking half the car apart? I'd probably use my local trusted indy who are Lexus trained. The car I have seen has full MB history with bills for over 6 grand.
Now I just need to make sure I wouldn't prefer a BMW 840, or a post 2000 XJR, or even an older straight six XJR. Very different of course. The Jags are way better looking and faster. But there is something about those large old Mercs.
k-ink said:
Jesus! That is a crazy price. Why so much? Is that main dealer prices for taking half the car apart? I'd probably use my local trusted indy who are Lexus trained.
The car I have seen has full MB history with bills for over 6 grand.
Now I just need to make sure I wouldn't prefer a BMW 840, or a post 2000 XJR, or even an older straight six XJR. Very different of course. The Jags are way better looking and faster. But there is something about those large old Mercs.
Sorry - it's the evaporator, not the condenser.The car I have seen has full MB history with bills for over 6 grand.
Now I just need to make sure I wouldn't prefer a BMW 840, or a post 2000 XJR, or even an older straight six XJR. Very different of course. The Jags are way better looking and faster. But there is something about those large old Mercs.
Some links here:
http://www.k6jrf.com/AC_Seal.html
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140-s-class/15845...
http://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w140/9386-w140-a...
I believe that the problem is far more common on pre-facelift cars, but can affect all of them, and is due to galvanic corrosion within the evaporator. Most of the cost is labour, and I have heard plenty of stories of indies who have attempted the job and given up, and had to trailer it to an MB specialist.
I went from a (non supercharged) X300 straight 6 XJ, to the CL. The Jag cornered better, and felt lighter. But I'd have the Merc every time.
k-ink said:
Thanks a lot. I think a search in the history is in order - to see if this has been done or not!
According to the Merc specialist I use, either they go or they don't, and later cars are far less prone to failure. Mine hasn't been done, and the last service & regas indicated there were no problems. A leak test is the best way to get peace of mind.I ran a 2004 CL500 for a year and it required nothing other than routine maintenance. Clearly, I only represent a sample size of 1, but thumbs up in my experience.
It was incredibly comfortable and quiet, and probably the only car I've owned that was genuinely capable of very long trips in total comfort. I remember doing a 4hr trip from London to Hay-on-Wye (in traffic) listening to the radio... when I got to Hay, I was so comfortable and relaxed I decided to stay sat in the car for another 15mins to listen to the end of the radio show.
The only common fault seems to be the ABC suspension. There are plenty out there that have had this replaced recently - buy one of those and it shouldn't be a worry. £8k should get you a relatively low mileage 2005 car, I'd say. It goes without saying (but I will anyway) it's massively a buyers' market.
It was incredibly comfortable and quiet, and probably the only car I've owned that was genuinely capable of very long trips in total comfort. I remember doing a 4hr trip from London to Hay-on-Wye (in traffic) listening to the radio... when I got to Hay, I was so comfortable and relaxed I decided to stay sat in the car for another 15mins to listen to the end of the radio show.
The only common fault seems to be the ABC suspension. There are plenty out there that have had this replaced recently - buy one of those and it shouldn't be a worry. £8k should get you a relatively low mileage 2005 car, I'd say. It goes without saying (but I will anyway) it's massively a buyers' market.
I'm running a CL600 twin turbo. Definitely the best car ive owned and not that expensive to run unless you have a long commute.
Ive owned it for 8 months and i have just had to service it and fill it with petrol. The ABC suspension is an issue if you are unlucky but Mercedes are pretty good if something serious goes pop. They replaced a fluid pipe for me foc
500hp is a lot of fun and the luxury is ridiculous. I paid 11k for mine but it is a late model and its mint! Nothing else for around 10k which gets the looks or delivers the performance
Gratuitous pic.....
Ive owned it for 8 months and i have just had to service it and fill it with petrol. The ABC suspension is an issue if you are unlucky but Mercedes are pretty good if something serious goes pop. They replaced a fluid pipe for me foc
500hp is a lot of fun and the luxury is ridiculous. I paid 11k for mine but it is a late model and its mint! Nothing else for around 10k which gets the looks or delivers the performance
Gratuitous pic.....
Ive had a cerbera, 964 and e39 M5 (which this replaced) - none of them come close performance wise. And apparently they can be taken to 580hp with a simple remap.
Just had mine serviced at local MB specialist for 300£ so not too bad
Mpg can be an issue but 20 as an average is normal
Get one bought! Dont bother with the 500 - youll be disappointed
Just had mine serviced at local MB specialist for 300£ so not too bad
Mpg can be an issue but 20 as an average is normal
Get one bought! Dont bother with the 500 - youll be disappointed
I just had the quickest viewing in history. It was the older 500 being sold by TCS Danbury. Unfortunately the seller Andy was a bit of a geezer. First of all the front bumper had been repainted in the wrong colour and rubber trim was not properly seated after re-fitment. So there is some history there. Then I asked for the aircon to be put on full blast. He refused and turned the engine off! He said the price was going up a grand tomorrow 
So I walked away. 2 minutes flat! Luckily it was only 1 mile from my house. Imagine if you travelled halfway across the country!
So I walked away. 2 minutes flat! Luckily it was only 1 mile from my house. Imagine if you travelled halfway across the country!mdowning said:
It goes without saying (but I will anyway) it's massively a buyers' market.
Agreed, I bought this 7 months ago to smoke around in over Winter......Another gratuitous picture...
'00 N/A W215 CL600, full mbsh, 100k miles, previous owner had replaced coil packs and ABC pump...even came with a V12 plate! Happy to report that all is well... Oh, and all for just over 4 grand
As mentioned above, do your homework, check everything...twice, and get one bought.
Edited by EvoSlayer on Saturday 20th April 17:14
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