Has anyone else here adjusted the toe in/out on C63?
Discussion
Don't get me started on the subject of AMG's and alignment!
I remember having one of mine 'properly' set up by Wheels In Motion. They had to use some special bolts to get it right for UK roads. Can't say I felt much difference outside of it nearly curing its tendency to pull left and evening out the tyre wear considerably (4k miles on the first set of rear Yokohama's was more than doubled on the second set of Conti 5P's...not sure whether the change in tyres or alignment contributed the most though!)
All 3 AMG's I've had has come from the factory poorly aligned. Like I said, I went through a set of tyres on my C63 in 4k miles due to inner tyre wear. MB UK in their usual customer friendly way didn't want to know.
Only two weeks ago did the dealer diagnose a droning noise on my SLS as unevenly worn tyres due to tracking. In the bloody fronts too, which were otherwise hardly worn (wouldn't have minded so much if it was the rears!). Again, MB rejected any claim for geometry or tyres so I'm again left to foot the bloody bill for their incompetent set-up (although admittedly I haven't owned this from new so can't know how it was treated previously...previous form suggests it won't be user error though).
I remember having one of mine 'properly' set up by Wheels In Motion. They had to use some special bolts to get it right for UK roads. Can't say I felt much difference outside of it nearly curing its tendency to pull left and evening out the tyre wear considerably (4k miles on the first set of rear Yokohama's was more than doubled on the second set of Conti 5P's...not sure whether the change in tyres or alignment contributed the most though!)
All 3 AMG's I've had has come from the factory poorly aligned. Like I said, I went through a set of tyres on my C63 in 4k miles due to inner tyre wear. MB UK in their usual customer friendly way didn't want to know.
Only two weeks ago did the dealer diagnose a droning noise on my SLS as unevenly worn tyres due to tracking. In the bloody fronts too, which were otherwise hardly worn (wouldn't have minded so much if it was the rears!). Again, MB rejected any claim for geometry or tyres so I'm again left to foot the bloody bill for their incompetent set-up (although admittedly I haven't owned this from new so can't know how it was treated previously...previous form suggests it won't be user error though).
Thanks Palmball. Agreed the C-AMG does habitually pull ever so slightly to the left. No idea how to correct it but a little research did suggest (not sure if explanation was 100% gen) that the pulling was down to a combo of wide track and narrow rubber mixed with the effects of a trick steering rack.
The thing I noticed more than anything is that it 'darts' about a bit. It seems to like jumping between the lorry grooves and varying road surfaces. Is this a normal trait of the C63? I also had my rear tracking 'neutralised' just over a month ago to eliminate the tyre wear issue. Although on normal road use there seems to be very little difference in handling one side effect I've noticed is that the high speed handling has been affected. When doing a high speed run recently the rear of the car started to feel 'light' above about 120 leptons. I do not remember this from before the toe in/out adjust so I can only assume its down to that. Anyone felt this 'lightening' at high speed?
The thing I noticed more than anything is that it 'darts' about a bit. It seems to like jumping between the lorry grooves and varying road surfaces. Is this a normal trait of the C63? I also had my rear tracking 'neutralised' just over a month ago to eliminate the tyre wear issue. Although on normal road use there seems to be very little difference in handling one side effect I've noticed is that the high speed handling has been affected. When doing a high speed run recently the rear of the car started to feel 'light' above about 120 leptons. I do not remember this from before the toe in/out adjust so I can only assume its down to that. Anyone felt this 'lightening' at high speed?
No, this doesn't sound right. My memory of the C63 is rock solid stability up to approx 175 leptons. Only above this (mine saw an indicated 191 on the autobahn!) did it tend to feel it was lifting somewhat, but never directionally nervous like you're describing.
Google Wheels in Motion as they appear to be well regarded and experienced in Mercedes circles (heck, they even carry the special Mercedes adjustment bolts in stock). Mine was pretty good after visiting them although it took them 2 attempts to get my steering wheel straight.
They're based in Bucks (just northwest of London) and whilst a fair distance for me, they were worth the treck. Depending on your location, other places to consider are Elite in Rainham, Essex or further north, Tyres Northampton - I've previously used Elite with good success and Tyres Northampton are also seemingly well regarded. Given your symptoms, I'd have it all rechecked as just having the right factory settings should be all you need to have it responding well, without the tyre wear (although it may not feel as sharp or responsive as your current setting, but I guess this also results in the compromises that you're experiencing?).
Google Wheels in Motion as they appear to be well regarded and experienced in Mercedes circles (heck, they even carry the special Mercedes adjustment bolts in stock). Mine was pretty good after visiting them although it took them 2 attempts to get my steering wheel straight.
They're based in Bucks (just northwest of London) and whilst a fair distance for me, they were worth the treck. Depending on your location, other places to consider are Elite in Rainham, Essex or further north, Tyres Northampton - I've previously used Elite with good success and Tyres Northampton are also seemingly well regarded. Given your symptoms, I'd have it all rechecked as just having the right factory settings should be all you need to have it responding well, without the tyre wear (although it may not feel as sharp or responsive as your current setting, but I guess this also results in the compromises that you're experiencing?).
The alignment stock from the factory has some very odd toe in/out set up as most AMG C classes eat tyres.
If you adjust the toe in closer to 0 you'll have better tyre life and more direct handling, but the car will oversteer more readily.
AMG have set the car up to understeer slightly for a safety margin but you can adjust it for better handling and tyre life, but you will be more easily spun off.
If you adjust the toe in closer to 0 you'll have better tyre life and more direct handling, but the car will oversteer more readily.
AMG have set the car up to understeer slightly for a safety margin but you can adjust it for better handling and tyre life, but you will be more easily spun off.
st4 said:
The alignment stock from the factory has some very odd toe in/out set up as most AMG C classes eat tyres.
If you adjust the toe in closer to 0 you'll have better tyre life and more direct handling, but the car will oversteer more readily.
AMG have set the car up to understeer slightly for a safety margin but you can adjust it for better handling and tyre life, but you will be more easily spun off.
Steve, the problems with tyre wear is that they don't even come from the factory with the right factory settings! I never had an issue with excessive wear after I had the right settings applied.If you adjust the toe in closer to 0 you'll have better tyre life and more direct handling, but the car will oversteer more readily.
AMG have set the car up to understeer slightly for a safety margin but you can adjust it for better handling and tyre life, but you will be more easily spun off.
I'm currently at loggerheads with MB Derby who have said that even if they acknowledge a problem after they've had a (second) go at the tracking, if the car needs the camber adjusting they won't fix it and nor will any other MB dealer.
Not sure how they can speak for other MB franchises but there you go. I see stormy weather ahead.
Not sure how they can speak for other MB franchises but there you go. I see stormy weather ahead.
goldblum said:
I'm currently at loggerheads with MB Derby who have said that even if they acknowledge a problem after they've had a (second) go at the tracking, if the car needs the camber adjusting they won't fix it and nor will any other MB dealer.
Not sure how they can speak for other MB franchises but there you go. I see stormy weather ahead.
I think the camber adjust needs special tools. But surely mb would have these.Not sure how they can speak for other MB franchises but there you go. I see stormy weather ahead.
Wow, this brings back memories!
In 92/94 I had a loaded 2.6 190 that had all these problems. The dealer tried but could never sort things out. Pulling to the left, lousy ride, killed tyres. In the end the dealer told me that the car would have been OK in another country's the UK roads were to blame for the alignment issues.
Not moved on much it seems.
In 92/94 I had a loaded 2.6 190 that had all these problems. The dealer tried but could never sort things out. Pulling to the left, lousy ride, killed tyres. In the end the dealer told me that the car would have been OK in another country's the UK roads were to blame for the alignment issues.
Not moved on much it seems.
ecain63 said:
I think the camber adjust needs special tools. But surely mb would have these.
You'd have thought so.My thoughts on the camber is the cars are primarily designed for the European market, and have left hand bias so the car drives plumb straight when driven on the right. The lack of action and metaphorical 'shrug of the shoulders' from MB Derby is actually more irritating than the steering itself which, to be fair, is out but hardly renders the car undriveable.
goldblum said:
ecain63 said:
I think the camber adjust needs special tools. But surely mb would have these.
You'd have thought so.My thoughts on the camber is the cars are primarily designed for the European market, and have left hand bias so the car drives plumb straight when driven on the right. The lack of action and metaphorical 'shrug of the shoulders' from MB Derby is actually more irritating than the steering itself which, to be fair, is out but hardly renders the car undriveable.
ecain63 said:
I agree. It is irritating however that the steering wheel is always tilted just to the right to counteract the pull on a straight road. Maybe a slight toe adjust to move the wheels to the opposite will avoid this. Hmmmmm! I feel some DIY coming on.
I mailed MB Derby a while ago saying that the only way I could see to move forward on this matter was to have a mutually approved independent mechanic assess the steering and give his verdict. If he finds the steering needs correcting and MB Derby are still unwilling to help then I'll have no choice but to take legal advice.
Received a reply yesterday which began:
"Dave, it appears we may have been getting our wires crossed..etc, etc,"
Let's see where this leads.
Good luck with your tinkering.
goldblum said:
ecain63 said:
I agree. It is irritating however that the steering wheel is always tilted just to the right to counteract the pull on a straight road. Maybe a slight toe adjust to move the wheels to the opposite will avoid this. Hmmmmm! I feel some DIY coming on.
I mailed MB Derby a while ago saying that the only way I could see to move forward on this matter was to have a mutually approved independent mechanic assess the steering and give his verdict. If he finds the steering needs correcting and MB Derby are still unwilling to help then I'll have no choice but to take legal advice.
Received a reply yesterday which began:
"Dave, it appears we may have been getting our wires crossed..etc, etc,"
Let's see where this leads.
Good luck with your tinkering.
My car is now booked in at the dealership next week, with the promise that the workshop boys will attend to the camber/caster angles, 'if deemed necessary'. It's those last three words that worry me... .
Previously I rang an MB specialist in Stockport who, when told of my car's issues, immediately offered "Oh yes, we know all about this. Had another E class in last week with the same problem that we sorted."
I'd like to think MB Derby will sort this out, but I've a funny feeling I'll be driving to Stockport before long.
Previously I rang an MB specialist in Stockport who, when told of my car's issues, immediately offered "Oh yes, we know all about this. Had another E class in last week with the same problem that we sorted."
I'd like to think MB Derby will sort this out, but I've a funny feeling I'll be driving to Stockport before long.
Hi ya palmnuts !!!!!!!!
I knew long ago we would meet again
I'm on my 2nd c63 after leaving a new e63 estate and the old vxr8 (for the noise ) long ago
Mine at the moment is a 2011 saloon swapped main dealer against a 2012 e63 estate that is still up for sale 12 months later for 10k less than they gave me.....
But it has a terrible wanton to visit the hard shoulder as soon as I let to of the wheel.
Other than that its great with dms remap and x pipe
Looking for sports cats ASAP -wanted milltek but have heard mixed responses and not visited this forum for a while
Good to know your still going strong and business is obviously good!
I knew long ago we would meet again
I'm on my 2nd c63 after leaving a new e63 estate and the old vxr8 (for the noise ) long ago
Mine at the moment is a 2011 saloon swapped main dealer against a 2012 e63 estate that is still up for sale 12 months later for 10k less than they gave me.....
But it has a terrible wanton to visit the hard shoulder as soon as I let to of the wheel.
Other than that its great with dms remap and x pipe
Looking for sports cats ASAP -wanted milltek but have heard mixed responses and not visited this forum for a while
Good to know your still going strong and business is obviously good!
goldblum said:
My car is now booked in at the dealership next week, with the promise that the workshop boys will attend to the camber/caster angles, 'if deemed necessary'. It's those last three words that worry me... .
Previously I rang an MB specialist in Stockport who, when told of my car's issues, immediately offered "Oh yes, we know all about this. Had another E class in last week with the same problem that we sorted."
I'd like to think MB Derby will sort this out, but I've a funny feeling I'll be driving to Stockport before long.
Update:Previously I rang an MB specialist in Stockport who, when told of my car's issues, immediately offered "Oh yes, we know all about this. Had another E class in last week with the same problem that we sorted."
I'd like to think MB Derby will sort this out, but I've a funny feeling I'll be driving to Stockport before long.
MB derby have come good and managed to sort the overly camber-sensitive steering; also the steering wheel no longer wants to drop immediately 5-10 degrees to the left on moving off, so I'm very pleased with the result. The E63 has also had remedial work done to the boot seal, boot springs, one AMG alloy wheel and one air vent motor.
I'm happy to post details of values for camber/caster/toe changes if anyone wants.
Gassing Station | Mercedes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff