147GTA - brake problems anyone ?
Discussion
first post, so forgive me ....
having got through 3 sets of disks and pads in 5000 miles ( I kid you not ), I'd like to hear from anyone else having similar trouble with their 147GTA/156GTA/V6gtv/spider that have the same disk/caliper combination
If this raises any interest, I'll carry on with the sorry saga, and Alfa's proposed solution.
Since the calipers and disks are VERY similar on the FIAT coupe 20V turbo, Integrale EVO2 and 406 coupe V6, maybe owners of those would be interested as well ?
Hapy stopping everyone !
having got through 3 sets of disks and pads in 5000 miles ( I kid you not ), I'd like to hear from anyone else having similar trouble with their 147GTA/156GTA/V6gtv/spider that have the same disk/caliper combination
If this raises any interest, I'll carry on with the sorry saga, and Alfa's proposed solution.
Since the calipers and disks are VERY similar on the FIAT coupe 20V turbo, Integrale EVO2 and 406 coupe V6, maybe owners of those would be interested as well ?
Hapy stopping everyone !
I don't know if it's been discussed here (n00b1e meself) but there has been an ongoing issue with brake disks warping on the GTA models, discussed over at alfaowner.com in the 147/156 forum. I havent been following it closely, unless there's another problem you are bringing to light?
For those that may have missed it the many times its been posted, this is a very good article on "warped" brakes:
www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/warped_rotors_myth.htm
Makes an interesting read.
My suggestion would be that next time you get the discs changed / skimmed, try the bedding in procedure detailed here and see if it makes any difference.
I think the biggest mistake most people make (as mentioned in the article) is leaving your foot on the brake pedal after coming to a halt from speed... its a fairly natural reaction and one needs to train oneself out of doing it
www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/warped_rotors_myth.htm
Makes an interesting read.
My suggestion would be that next time you get the discs changed / skimmed, try the bedding in procedure detailed here and see if it makes any difference.
I think the biggest mistake most people make (as mentioned in the article) is leaving your foot on the brake pedal after coming to a halt from speed... its a fairly natural reaction and one needs to train oneself out of doing it
ok, here goes .....
after badgering our dealer A LOT, we're having new disks, calipers, pads, and 4 wheels ( needed to clear the bigger disks ) fitted ALL UNDER WARRANTY
I think the disks are about 20mm bigger diameter, don't know anything about the calipers or pads yet, it's going in on Monday for the work to be done
I'll let you all know how it pans out ...
at my guess, this is going to cost Alfa about £1,500 per car, so it's no surprise it's not being massively publicised
Anyone else having this done ?
more importantly, anyone else going to their dealer to insist they have it done ?
did I just make myself very unpopular with an Italian car manufacturer ?
after badgering our dealer A LOT, we're having new disks, calipers, pads, and 4 wheels ( needed to clear the bigger disks ) fitted ALL UNDER WARRANTY
I think the disks are about 20mm bigger diameter, don't know anything about the calipers or pads yet, it's going in on Monday for the work to be done
I'll let you all know how it pans out ...
at my guess, this is going to cost Alfa about £1,500 per car, so it's no surprise it's not being massively publicised
Anyone else having this done ?
more importantly, anyone else going to their dealer to insist they have it done ?
did I just make myself very unpopular with an Italian car manufacturer ?
in our case, it's just been the fronts that have given trouble.
The dealer begrudgingly acknowledged the problem and the fix when we told them we knew there was a problem with this braking system.
Comparing disk and pad sizes (EBC's for example), these calipers pads and disks (some 4 stud, some 5, but all the same O/D) go on coupe 20V turbos, integrales, GTAs, V6 GTV's and spyders and 406 V6 coupes, and they all have trouble.
It was the trouble I had with my own 20V turbo that highlighted it for us, that took about 12 months, hundreds of pounds and lots of aftermarket parts to eventually fix. Tarox G88 disks warp too, so that I think tarox withdrew them for that model, only leaving the sport japan type on the market.
cant remember if I already mentioned this here, but the fix I finished up with was Pagid disks, EBC redstuff pads and castrol DOT5 fluid. The disks would turn blue and the pads would smoke, but no more judder and the car still stopped.
The dealer begrudgingly acknowledged the problem and the fix when we told them we knew there was a problem with this braking system.
Comparing disk and pad sizes (EBC's for example), these calipers pads and disks (some 4 stud, some 5, but all the same O/D) go on coupe 20V turbos, integrales, GTAs, V6 GTV's and spyders and 406 V6 coupes, and they all have trouble.
It was the trouble I had with my own 20V turbo that highlighted it for us, that took about 12 months, hundreds of pounds and lots of aftermarket parts to eventually fix. Tarox G88 disks warp too, so that I think tarox withdrew them for that model, only leaving the sport japan type on the market.
cant remember if I already mentioned this here, but the fix I finished up with was Pagid disks, EBC redstuff pads and castrol DOT5 fluid. The disks would turn blue and the pads would smoke, but no more judder and the car still stopped.
pdV6 said:
Hmmm. Sounds like that's not actually going to cure the problem, unless the pads are a different compound (and maybe not even then).
I'd still be inclined to find a quiet road / large carpark / runway / whatever and get the new kit bedded in well before hooning about.
point taken, but the dealer will be driving the car about 35 miles back to us, so we don't have control over the first few dozen stops ... rest assured that we'll be doing the right thing after that though
My GTV V6 has the standard 305mm rotors on the front, with the Brembo 4-pot callipers (marked up with "Alfa Romeo" script) running under 16" wheels. I guess I'd need at least 17" rims to clear larger rotors, as there's f-all free space in there!
The "warping" phenomenon (or build up of pad material, as it more likely is) seems very common on this setup, but a lot of folk report improvement using after market pads.
The original discs on my car suffered quite badly - but this may have been down to me being a bit over-enthusiastic when I first got it! These were changed under warranty for identical parts, which have been much better. The pads at least are due for renewal soon, so I'll be investigating alternatives to the OEM parts.
One other thing that applies to the GTV is that the standard hoses seem quite elastic, leading to a slightly soft pedal feel. My theory is that drivers new to the car might misinterpret this for poor brakes and give it a bootful when its not necessarily needed. Braided hoses apparently cure this problem, so I may well opt to change these too. Outright stopping power is actually very good with the OEM setup; I can count on one hand the number of times I've misjudged it and had the ABS kick in...
The "warping" phenomenon (or build up of pad material, as it more likely is) seems very common on this setup, but a lot of folk report improvement using after market pads.
The original discs on my car suffered quite badly - but this may have been down to me being a bit over-enthusiastic when I first got it!
These were changed under warranty for identical parts, which have been much better. The pads at least are due for renewal soon, so I'll be investigating alternatives to the OEM parts. One other thing that applies to the GTV is that the standard hoses seem quite elastic, leading to a slightly soft pedal feel. My theory is that drivers new to the car might misinterpret this for poor brakes and give it a bootful when its not necessarily needed. Braided hoses apparently cure this problem, so I may well opt to change these too. Outright stopping power is actually very good with the OEM setup; I can count on one hand the number of times I've misjudged it and had the ABS kick in...
My name is Daniele Giuliano I live in Australia, Sydney to be exact. I am having problems with my Alfa 147 GTA. I purchased my Alfa-Romeo 147 GTA from Alfa-Centro in Rushcutters Bay. It is the Blue color. The car is advertised as a ”Hot Hatch” or a performance car. I first noticed problems after 5000-6000km and mentioned it to them after approximately 7,500km. My problems are as follows:
1.After receiving the car from service, they told me my car, after 10,000km, has a problem with the clutch. Worn apparently. 10,000km?
Because this is a "Ware and Tare" item, I may have to pay for the labor involved in changing the clutch including the clutch. Let me tell you I have been driving these cars for a long time and I know how to drive.
2.After 7,900km all my tires were worn out. I went to see Steve at Bob Jane in Haberfield, as he has looked after me for a long time. Also with my previous car, an Audi S3.
The "Toe" of the rear wheels was both out by 5.9mm and 5.2mm respectively. The tires were shot to pieces and opted to do a front to back rotation and got away with approx. 10,000km.
I brought this up with Jason and the Service crew and is still being investigated. Up till now have denied any responsibility.
I thought the cars were supposed to have a "Wheel Alignment" before they left the showroom. They apparently get their alignments at Bob Jane Rushcutters Bay.
3.After a long day, I got into my car, started it and took off normally to the traffic lights ahead. As I released the clutch to move off, the car made loud clunking noises from under the bonnet! I was stunned. I turned the car off immediately and called a toe truck. Later that week, they found that the Differential had teeth sheared off. When they drained the oil, metal shavings came out with it. They told me it is not covered under warranty.
All these problems happened in a short succession. I have absolutely nothing to hide. I DO NOT “Thrash” my car, I DO NOT ‘Ride The Clutch” and I DO NOT abuse my car in any way what so ever. This damage to my car is a real shock to me and am very disappointed with the Customer Service and the treatment that I have been receiving, implying that I abuse my car. I am get very offended every time they bring up “Drive Technique” as an excuse.
I have also had the problem with the VDC light. 2 times.
I am fed up and what my car back as I bought it. The car is still characterized as new and I want it that way.
Please get your car checked properly. If you have to go to the Importer, go.
Thank You
Barba
1.After receiving the car from service, they told me my car, after 10,000km, has a problem with the clutch. Worn apparently. 10,000km?
Because this is a "Ware and Tare" item, I may have to pay for the labor involved in changing the clutch including the clutch. Let me tell you I have been driving these cars for a long time and I know how to drive.
2.After 7,900km all my tires were worn out. I went to see Steve at Bob Jane in Haberfield, as he has looked after me for a long time. Also with my previous car, an Audi S3.
The "Toe" of the rear wheels was both out by 5.9mm and 5.2mm respectively. The tires were shot to pieces and opted to do a front to back rotation and got away with approx. 10,000km.
I brought this up with Jason and the Service crew and is still being investigated. Up till now have denied any responsibility.
I thought the cars were supposed to have a "Wheel Alignment" before they left the showroom. They apparently get their alignments at Bob Jane Rushcutters Bay.
3.After a long day, I got into my car, started it and took off normally to the traffic lights ahead. As I released the clutch to move off, the car made loud clunking noises from under the bonnet! I was stunned. I turned the car off immediately and called a toe truck. Later that week, they found that the Differential had teeth sheared off. When they drained the oil, metal shavings came out with it. They told me it is not covered under warranty.
All these problems happened in a short succession. I have absolutely nothing to hide. I DO NOT “Thrash” my car, I DO NOT ‘Ride The Clutch” and I DO NOT abuse my car in any way what so ever. This damage to my car is a real shock to me and am very disappointed with the Customer Service and the treatment that I have been receiving, implying that I abuse my car. I am get very offended every time they bring up “Drive Technique” as an excuse.
I have also had the problem with the VDC light. 2 times.
I am fed up and what my car back as I bought it. The car is still characterized as new and I want it that way.
Please get your car checked properly. If you have to go to the Importer, go.
Thank You
Barba
Barba, if they are questioning your driving style, can you not get a print out fron the ECU? I have a Lotus Elise S2, the ECU has the ability to record a large amount of data, things include - number of standing starts, max revs, max speed etc. You can print this information off via an OBD reader/printer, this info can help to prove that the car is/is not being abused.
Just a thought!
Cheers .......
Simon.
Just a thought!
Cheers .......
Simon.
Hi Danielle,
Mate I know you from Indoor Soccer at FiveDock Leisure Centre. You use to wear the faggy red indoor soccer boots. You have always been a little short in the brain department and give all italians and italian things a bad name. You cannot play indoor so you blame it on every one else for your own short comings. Your girlfriend/wife is just as pathetic as you are not too mention over weight and ugly but has the nerve to call real glamours bitches and whores because she cannot compare to them.
Your comments are not only misleading but damaging to the marque. I have not heard of any problems relating to "EXCESSIVE TYRE WEAR" where by all the tread blocks are worn on the rear only, BUT the fronts have brand new tread blocks....without out purchasing new tyres!!! WHO ARE YOU KIDDING MATE???? Your car in the span of one week (between you reporting the problem at the workshop, to when the work shop agreed to open the gearbox) recorded on the OBD computer, 87 red-line engine cutouts, a no less than 65% open throttle positions!!! That in any ones language is driver abuse. Face it you cannot drive and have mistreated the vehicle. ANY CAR THAT IS TREATED THE WAY YOU HAVE TREATED IT WILL NOT LAST. You have ruined it due to your own profanity to show off as always, and finally it has bitten you in the arse, and you still cannot see the only malfunction here is in your twisted head.
Why dont you go back and buy your 'pastel orange' Audi S3 and cruise up and down the cafe strip of leichhardt hoping that people will see you and "cream their pants" as you drive by....showing off pretending to be an italian stud.....you tosser!!!!
Mate I know you from Indoor Soccer at FiveDock Leisure Centre. You use to wear the faggy red indoor soccer boots. You have always been a little short in the brain department and give all italians and italian things a bad name. You cannot play indoor so you blame it on every one else for your own short comings. Your girlfriend/wife is just as pathetic as you are not too mention over weight and ugly but has the nerve to call real glamours bitches and whores because she cannot compare to them.
Your comments are not only misleading but damaging to the marque. I have not heard of any problems relating to "EXCESSIVE TYRE WEAR" where by all the tread blocks are worn on the rear only, BUT the fronts have brand new tread blocks....without out purchasing new tyres!!! WHO ARE YOU KIDDING MATE???? Your car in the span of one week (between you reporting the problem at the workshop, to when the work shop agreed to open the gearbox) recorded on the OBD computer, 87 red-line engine cutouts, a no less than 65% open throttle positions!!! That in any ones language is driver abuse. Face it you cannot drive and have mistreated the vehicle. ANY CAR THAT IS TREATED THE WAY YOU HAVE TREATED IT WILL NOT LAST. You have ruined it due to your own profanity to show off as always, and finally it has bitten you in the arse, and you still cannot see the only malfunction here is in your twisted head.
Why dont you go back and buy your 'pastel orange' Audi S3 and cruise up and down the cafe strip of leichhardt hoping that people will see you and "cream their pants" as you drive by....showing off pretending to be an italian stud.....you tosser!!!!
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