Alfa Romeo 147 - why not?
Discussion
I'm currently toying with buying an early 2001/ 2002 Alfa Romeo 147 as they seem to be really good value for money and still look quite modern. However I've never owned an Alfa before, so my question is how bad would the reliability be? Is it literally guaranteed to go wrong or is the bad reputation they have exaggerated?
Potentially thinking a 2.0 petrol (Lusso?) manual with a few options (lots of things to go wrong
) but I'm worried this will be something I'll regret coming from the relative ease of late-reg vw group hatchback ownership. On the other hand as my mileage is going to significantly reduce and I'll likely only keep it for a few months, what's the worst that could happen?
Potentially thinking a 2.0 petrol (Lusso?) manual with a few options (lots of things to go wrong
) but I'm worried this will be something I'll regret coming from the relative ease of late-reg vw group hatchback ownership. On the other hand as my mileage is going to significantly reduce and I'll likely only keep it for a few months, what's the worst that could happen?Step into the Alfa room and get some experiences from people who've actually owned them..
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?h=0&a...
Find a good one and you'll love the experience.
Maintainance is key with proven servicing a must. Usual caveats with cambelts apply more so with Alfas (every 3 years) and keep an eye on oil levels as there are plenty of cars on sale with knackered engines.
Price difference between good and bad ones isn't great so be picky and get leather!
Go over to www.alfaowner.com for plenty of advice.
No more unreliable than a VW if looked after.
Maintainance is key with proven servicing a must. Usual caveats with cambelts apply more so with Alfas (every 3 years) and keep an eye on oil levels as there are plenty of cars on sale with knackered engines.
Price difference between good and bad ones isn't great so be picky and get leather!
Go over to www.alfaowner.com for plenty of advice.
No more unreliable than a VW if looked after.
I have a 2001 gabbiano blue selespeed 2.0 TS. Contrary to popular belief it has been amazingly reliable! Being a selespeed it has the Bose amplified setup in it, digital dual-zone climate, cruise, on-board computer, heated seats, remote stereo buttons on steering wheel etc.
The selespeed robotic gearbox is okay, its not amazing as they were in their infancy back then and makes some odd choices sometimes, but does the job and saves on leg ache in traffic jams. A lot of people (everyone) say dont get a selespeed but they do come fully loaded and are cheap and mine has been absolutely fine. I guess that's a decision you need to make as the manuals are very reliable.
I paid £1200 for mine with 72k on the clock and have done nearly 30k trouble free miles in it, had the cam-belt done and serviced and I check the oil religiously. I absolutely love it, the handling is amazing for a front wheel drive car, it feels lovely inside and is well made and uses nice materials.
Parts are pretty cheap, tax is too high (£220ish) and the upper wishbones go on them but not too expensive to sort out.
Would I buy another? Definitely! I love mine!
Good guide here: http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_romeo_147.shtml
The selespeed robotic gearbox is okay, its not amazing as they were in their infancy back then and makes some odd choices sometimes, but does the job and saves on leg ache in traffic jams. A lot of people (everyone) say dont get a selespeed but they do come fully loaded and are cheap and mine has been absolutely fine. I guess that's a decision you need to make as the manuals are very reliable.
I paid £1200 for mine with 72k on the clock and have done nearly 30k trouble free miles in it, had the cam-belt done and serviced and I check the oil religiously. I absolutely love it, the handling is amazing for a front wheel drive car, it feels lovely inside and is well made and uses nice materials.
Parts are pretty cheap, tax is too high (£220ish) and the upper wishbones go on them but not too expensive to sort out.
Would I buy another? Definitely! I love mine!
Good guide here: http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_romeo_147.shtml
Edited by robsa on Saturday 9th June 20:51
I dont know a whole lot about the 147, except that i very much want one some day.
I do know a few weaknesses of the 2.0 twinspark. As has been said, the cambelt needs to be done fairly often, and very much on time, dont even testdrive a car which hasnt been done on time.
Another weak point of the twinspark is its vulnerability to low oil. From what i know a 2.0 which has been run with the level below the minimum will eat its crank bearings and require a small engine rebuild (replace crank bearings and possible crank) to fix. Once again, dont even testdrive a car where the oil is below min.
Either problem can end up writing off the car if ignored, although the cam belt can be easily checked. The oil/crank thing is a bit harder to see coming on a used car, but if you catch it early, a set of crank bearings shouldnt be extremely dear. Another problem which happens occasionaly is a rotated piston (piston jams in the cilinder), but this is relatively rare, i only mention it because of all TS engines, the 2.0 is most prone to this.
The 1.6 is supposed to be less vulnerable then the 2.0 to the piston rotation and oil level problems, but at 105/120hp, only just enough for a reasonable drive, nothing sporting. The 2.0 is supposedly better, but still not as sporting as it was in the 145, due to extra weight/more comfortable ride on the 147.
My own view on the situation, if i ever get a 147, it will be either a JTD, or if i have big bucks, a GTA. The twinsparks might be terrific engines, but they are a bit vulnerable, so a bit of a gamble on used cars. JTD engines on the other hand are rock solid (most examples run over 200K miles without much trouble) and have a lot of tuning potential. The only JTD which doesnt do an easy 30-35 extra hp with a remap is the bottom end unit (forgot if its 100 or 105), due to a weaker clutch. the 16v JTD does 170-175hp with a remap.
I do know a few weaknesses of the 2.0 twinspark. As has been said, the cambelt needs to be done fairly often, and very much on time, dont even testdrive a car which hasnt been done on time.
Another weak point of the twinspark is its vulnerability to low oil. From what i know a 2.0 which has been run with the level below the minimum will eat its crank bearings and require a small engine rebuild (replace crank bearings and possible crank) to fix. Once again, dont even testdrive a car where the oil is below min.
Either problem can end up writing off the car if ignored, although the cam belt can be easily checked. The oil/crank thing is a bit harder to see coming on a used car, but if you catch it early, a set of crank bearings shouldnt be extremely dear. Another problem which happens occasionaly is a rotated piston (piston jams in the cilinder), but this is relatively rare, i only mention it because of all TS engines, the 2.0 is most prone to this.
The 1.6 is supposed to be less vulnerable then the 2.0 to the piston rotation and oil level problems, but at 105/120hp, only just enough for a reasonable drive, nothing sporting. The 2.0 is supposedly better, but still not as sporting as it was in the 145, due to extra weight/more comfortable ride on the 147.
My own view on the situation, if i ever get a 147, it will be either a JTD, or if i have big bucks, a GTA. The twinsparks might be terrific engines, but they are a bit vulnerable, so a bit of a gamble on used cars. JTD engines on the other hand are rock solid (most examples run over 200K miles without much trouble) and have a lot of tuning potential. The only JTD which doesnt do an easy 30-35 extra hp with a remap is the bottom end unit (forgot if its 100 or 105), due to a weaker clutch. the 16v JTD does 170-175hp with a remap.
^ True. Alfa had to cut out an area below No3 cylinder to make way for the cat. As a result the oil level below no. 3 cylinder is shallower than the others. If you let the oil get low the no. 3 bearing doesn't get lubricated and it will nip up, stripping the cam belt....
This is why you MUST check the oil religiously!
This is why you MUST check the oil religiously!
I too would go for the JTD Mjet, I had one from new (2005), quicker than the twin sparks and 40mpg in town 50+ on a run. Had it 3 years, 46k with no problems, chopped it in for a 159. only thing I would say is (as already be said) get one with a FSH. The 70k service is a big one, all belts replaced. Main dealer you looking at £700+
I had one of these a few years ago, it was a 52 reg, it was a great car and the most reliable car I had owned up to that point. Possibly the most reliable car I have ever owned, pending more time with the MITO.
As others have said CHECK THE OIL! On a weekly basis. I previously had a 145 where the previous owner only put oil in it when the light came on. Needless to say that lasted me 6 months before it died. But it did give me the Alfa bug.
The other thing to look out for are knocks from the suspension, my 147 had previously had suspension work done on it when it would only have been about 3 years old so clearly a weak point.
Oil really really is the MOST important thing. Also if a car that you are testing is sounding like a diesel then it will most likely be the cam tensioner that needs replaced. This is normally done with a cam belt change to be on the safe side. Alfa recommended that a belt change is done every 30,000 miles. Check this in the history. I don't know how much this will be at a good independent, but I imagine it would be the same price as any other normal hatchback. There is nothing massively odd or complex about the engine with regards to this.
Other than that, get a low miles leather interior 2.0l and enjoy. They are cracking cars! Just be careful that it doesn't kick off an expensive addiction!
As others have said CHECK THE OIL! On a weekly basis. I previously had a 145 where the previous owner only put oil in it when the light came on. Needless to say that lasted me 6 months before it died. But it did give me the Alfa bug.
The other thing to look out for are knocks from the suspension, my 147 had previously had suspension work done on it when it would only have been about 3 years old so clearly a weak point.
Oil really really is the MOST important thing. Also if a car that you are testing is sounding like a diesel then it will most likely be the cam tensioner that needs replaced. This is normally done with a cam belt change to be on the safe side. Alfa recommended that a belt change is done every 30,000 miles. Check this in the history. I don't know how much this will be at a good independent, but I imagine it would be the same price as any other normal hatchback. There is nothing massively odd or complex about the engine with regards to this.
Other than that, get a low miles leather interior 2.0l and enjoy. They are cracking cars! Just be careful that it doesn't kick off an expensive addiction!
I bought a brand new 147 2.0 Twinspark Lusso Manual in 2001. I ran it until 2011, putting 135,000 miles on it.
I loved it. I went all over Europe with the family, round lots of race tracks including the 'ring, hardly ever went wrong.
Failures over that time:
- Cambelt broke at 47,000 miles (it was booked in for a replacement at the time!).
- N/S/R window stopped working at 120,000 miles
- 5th gear syncro went at about 110,000 miles
Consumables:
- Headlight bulbs generally lasted only 9 months
- Standard exhausts lasted a couple of years, so got a CSC instead which was still fine when I sold the car
- Suspension bushes lasted about 3 years
- It drank about 1 litre of oil every 1,500 miles
Other than that, it was perfectly reliable, nippy, fun, comfortable, and a superb small family car. I'd have another one in an instant if I wanted tha size car again (but not the facelift, it looks wrong).
I loved it. I went all over Europe with the family, round lots of race tracks including the 'ring, hardly ever went wrong.
Failures over that time:
- Cambelt broke at 47,000 miles (it was booked in for a replacement at the time!).
- N/S/R window stopped working at 120,000 miles
- 5th gear syncro went at about 110,000 miles
Consumables:
- Headlight bulbs generally lasted only 9 months
- Standard exhausts lasted a couple of years, so got a CSC instead which was still fine when I sold the car
- Suspension bushes lasted about 3 years
- It drank about 1 litre of oil every 1,500 miles
Other than that, it was perfectly reliable, nippy, fun, comfortable, and a superb small family car. I'd have another one in an instant if I wanted tha size car again (but not the facelift, it looks wrong).
Out of interest, what's the fuel consumption like on the 147 in traffic? Is it as bad as I hear? I would love to get one as my beater but my commute is a 44 miles round trip which isn't huge but the commute to work will be stop start all the way. Thinking a diesel mk4 golf will have to be the choice but the 147 is what I would rather have!
Gatsby said:
Out of interest, what's the fuel consumption like on the 147 in traffic? Is it as bad as I hear? I would love to get one as my beater but my commute is a 44 miles round trip which isn't huge but the commute to work will be stop start all the way. Thinking a diesel mk4 golf will have to be the choice but the 147 is what I would rather have!
Get a 147 with the JTD engine then 
Gatsby said:
A strong point!What should I be looking out for in relation to the JTD?
In terms of issues: the biggie (in addition to the abovementioned) is the EGR valve. In stop start traffic and cold weather this will clog up fast. It's really easy to change yourself, though.
Duke147 said:
Look for a Ducati Corse - 20 more bhp!
In terms of issues: the biggie (in addition to the abovementioned) is the EGR valve. In stop start traffic and cold weather this will clog up fast. It's really easy to change yourself, though.
Or just remap a 16v - and take 185-190BHP In terms of issues: the biggie (in addition to the abovementioned) is the EGR valve. In stop start traffic and cold weather this will clog up fast. It's really easy to change yourself, though.
We have owned a 1.6 TS for about 7 years now. The main issues seem to have been covered already. We have encountered:
- it is recommended that the cambelt is changed at 36K or every three years. This costs about £450 at a specialist if you do the variator at the same time. My wife does 6k miles per year so I am happy to wait for 30K (every five years).
- the suspension can be brittle. The bushes and droplinks wear out too quickly, but are not expensive to replace. We had the front arms replaced two years ago, which I don't consider bad on an 03 car. The front wishbones are now squeaking and are due for replacement at the next service. These have not been replaced before, and there are a whole load of speed humps where we live so this is wear and tear.
- the power steering pipes leak. The leakage is so negligible we have never changed the pipes. I top up the fluid maybe 3-4 times a year.
Otherwise, like with any car I have owned, I check fluids and tyre pressures about once a month. The only time the car broke down was when a clutch pedal pin broke. I bought a replacement for about £2 and fitted it in minutes. There is an excellent user forum on www.alfaowner.com where there is a wealth of advice.
Would I buy one all over again ? Definitely. We test drove most of the usual suspects, but none appealed as much. The 147 just felt different and fun. My parting words would be to go in with your eyes and ears open. Alfa stopped making the 147 around 2009 I think, so most older examples are getting long in the tooth. Like any car in your price and age range, buy on condition. A bit of patience will throw up a well maintained example. At that price and age range, there will always be a lot of dogs as the cost of maintenance on any car will outweigh its residual value, and people skimp on non-essential fixes. Best of luck with whatever you decide.
- it is recommended that the cambelt is changed at 36K or every three years. This costs about £450 at a specialist if you do the variator at the same time. My wife does 6k miles per year so I am happy to wait for 30K (every five years).
- the suspension can be brittle. The bushes and droplinks wear out too quickly, but are not expensive to replace. We had the front arms replaced two years ago, which I don't consider bad on an 03 car. The front wishbones are now squeaking and are due for replacement at the next service. These have not been replaced before, and there are a whole load of speed humps where we live so this is wear and tear.
- the power steering pipes leak. The leakage is so negligible we have never changed the pipes. I top up the fluid maybe 3-4 times a year.
Otherwise, like with any car I have owned, I check fluids and tyre pressures about once a month. The only time the car broke down was when a clutch pedal pin broke. I bought a replacement for about £2 and fitted it in minutes. There is an excellent user forum on www.alfaowner.com where there is a wealth of advice.
Would I buy one all over again ? Definitely. We test drove most of the usual suspects, but none appealed as much. The 147 just felt different and fun. My parting words would be to go in with your eyes and ears open. Alfa stopped making the 147 around 2009 I think, so most older examples are getting long in the tooth. Like any car in your price and age range, buy on condition. A bit of patience will throw up a well maintained example. At that price and age range, there will always be a lot of dogs as the cost of maintenance on any car will outweigh its residual value, and people skimp on non-essential fixes. Best of luck with whatever you decide.
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