GTV 2.0 TS vs 3.0 V6 (916)
Discussion
I apologise if this question has been asked before as I'm sure it has, but I am in need of some help.
I have been resisting the urge to furnish my garage with an Alfa GTV for some time now. My MX-5, as much as I love it, is rather impractical for every day use and I would like to turn it into more of a toy. So as I am on the look out for a new daily motor I thought it's about time to scratch that itch and get myself into a GTV.
What I need from the car is to be comfortable, quiet(ish), fun and reasonably economical. I've always fancied the 3.0 V6 ever since I was about 16 when my dads colleague got one. The noise is just incredible and I medically need such a thing in my life.
However, everyone I speak to (Alfa owners included) tell me that the 2.0 Twin Spark is the one to get... Why? From what I've read the 2.0 TS will return 30 - 35mpg and the V6 about 22mpg? Also I understand that with some Alfa's you need specialist tools? I am a capable mechanic and would do most mechanical work myself where possible.
This isn't a money saving exercise, I'm well aware it won't be the cheapest thing to run. I need a sensible daily whilst the Mazda gets a little more mental and I quite fancy a GTV!
Any help much appreciated and I once again apologise for asking what I'm sure has been asked before.
I have been resisting the urge to furnish my garage with an Alfa GTV for some time now. My MX-5, as much as I love it, is rather impractical for every day use and I would like to turn it into more of a toy. So as I am on the look out for a new daily motor I thought it's about time to scratch that itch and get myself into a GTV.
What I need from the car is to be comfortable, quiet(ish), fun and reasonably economical. I've always fancied the 3.0 V6 ever since I was about 16 when my dads colleague got one. The noise is just incredible and I medically need such a thing in my life.
However, everyone I speak to (Alfa owners included) tell me that the 2.0 Twin Spark is the one to get... Why? From what I've read the 2.0 TS will return 30 - 35mpg and the V6 about 22mpg? Also I understand that with some Alfa's you need specialist tools? I am a capable mechanic and would do most mechanical work myself where possible.
This isn't a money saving exercise, I'm well aware it won't be the cheapest thing to run. I need a sensible daily whilst the Mazda gets a little more mental and I quite fancy a GTV!
Any help much appreciated and I once again apologise for asking what I'm sure has been asked before.
I haven't had a GTV but had a 147GTA for 5 years so can comment on the V6 economy and running costs. Had a 156 2ltr before that as well.
I managed around 25-28mpg out of mine. Sometimes 30+ on a very long motorway run. If hammering it everywhere 22mpg out of a tank. The GTA used to return anywhere between 260-340 miles out of a tank whereas I used to get about 380 miles out of a tank consistently in the 156.
The specialist tools people probably mention will be the cam locks which are needed in order to change the belts as there are no markings on the engine casing. Basically the rocker covers come off both banks, cam locks go in place then the belts can be done. You can buy them but for the sake of £50 to buy them to use once every 4-5 years is it worth it?
Servicing costs aren't too bad I suppose. You will be looking between £180-250 for a service from an independant and £5-600 for a belt/tensioner change.
A must have is a Q2 diff though (£6-700 job). I wish I had had it done sooner on my GTA as the road handling increased beyond belief. A corner I go around daily on my route to work I used to pootle around at about 40-45mph and you could feel the car struggling for grip, Q2 fitted and it used to go around at 60mph without a problem. Massive difference.
Oh and that noise
.
I managed around 25-28mpg out of mine. Sometimes 30+ on a very long motorway run. If hammering it everywhere 22mpg out of a tank. The GTA used to return anywhere between 260-340 miles out of a tank whereas I used to get about 380 miles out of a tank consistently in the 156.
The specialist tools people probably mention will be the cam locks which are needed in order to change the belts as there are no markings on the engine casing. Basically the rocker covers come off both banks, cam locks go in place then the belts can be done. You can buy them but for the sake of £50 to buy them to use once every 4-5 years is it worth it?
Servicing costs aren't too bad I suppose. You will be looking between £180-250 for a service from an independant and £5-600 for a belt/tensioner change.
A must have is a Q2 diff though (£6-700 job). I wish I had had it done sooner on my GTA as the road handling increased beyond belief. A corner I go around daily on my route to work I used to pootle around at about 40-45mph and you could feel the car struggling for grip, Q2 fitted and it used to go around at 60mph without a problem. Massive difference.
Oh and that noise
. My twinny does 30mpg most of the time and it's driven hard. 35/36 mpg on runs when I'm not in a hurry or stuck in a queue of traffic.
Can't comment on tools. Most of the stuff I've done has been pretty straightforward and only required my normal toolbox.
I also run a ragazzon exhaust which sounds sublime and while it's no alfa v6, it's a very very sweet sounding in line 4.
Not much between the cars. The v6 is marginally heavier at the front. The suspension on the v6 is more beefed up and lasts longer. There's a wider range of twinnies available.
I've never felt as though I've compromised myself with the twin spark. On the odd occasion, I've wanted more power, I'll need a lot more power than that v6 to keep up with whatever it is that's just shot past me. Tvrs come to mind!
Can't comment on tools. Most of the stuff I've done has been pretty straightforward and only required my normal toolbox.
I also run a ragazzon exhaust which sounds sublime and while it's no alfa v6, it's a very very sweet sounding in line 4.
Not much between the cars. The v6 is marginally heavier at the front. The suspension on the v6 is more beefed up and lasts longer. There's a wider range of twinnies available.
I've never felt as though I've compromised myself with the twin spark. On the odd occasion, I've wanted more power, I'll need a lot more power than that v6 to keep up with whatever it is that's just shot past me. Tvrs come to mind!
I think you're misguided if you think a GTV is going to be more practical than an MX5.
I suspect there's very little in it with regards to boot size - so the only reason to buy the GTV (from a practicality POV) is that it's a tin-top. Which means you may as well buy a hardtop for the MX5.
An Alfa is also going to cost you a hell of a lot more to maintain than an MX5, too.
(I'm a big Alfa fan, Mrs Norris has a 147 TSpark as a daily driver - and whilst it has been reliable, we get both the 147 and MX5 serviced by the same local mechanic - and the Alfa always seems to generate bigger bills)
I suspect there's very little in it with regards to boot size - so the only reason to buy the GTV (from a practicality POV) is that it's a tin-top. Which means you may as well buy a hardtop for the MX5.
An Alfa is also going to cost you a hell of a lot more to maintain than an MX5, too.
(I'm a big Alfa fan, Mrs Norris has a 147 TSpark as a daily driver - and whilst it has been reliable, we get both the 147 and MX5 serviced by the same local mechanic - and the Alfa always seems to generate bigger bills)
I have had both, i got 30+mpg from the V6, driving like miss daisey on the motorway, you do slightly notice the weight of the engine in the V6 when thrashing it round Wales, in the 2.0 i could keep up with any V6 when the going gets tight and twisty, as soon as the road opens up or climbs that is where the smaller engine looses out.do not worry about special tools, join AO and someone in your area will probably have camlocks for either engines.
It really is down to the noise, my twinny had a powerflow exhaust, sports cat, K&N, carbon pipe instead of the resonator, for a 2.0 four pot it sounded epic, on the other hand my V6 had a Larini rear system, equal length headers and sounded orgasmic.
Both were re-mapped..
If you are a reasonably competent spannerman you can keep costs down, anything you need to do will have been done by someone in the GTV section on AO, so you can ask for help and tips.
hope that helps..
It really is down to the noise, my twinny had a powerflow exhaust, sports cat, K&N, carbon pipe instead of the resonator, for a 2.0 four pot it sounded epic, on the other hand my V6 had a Larini rear system, equal length headers and sounded orgasmic.
Both were re-mapped..
If you are a reasonably competent spannerman you can keep costs down, anything you need to do will have been done by someone in the GTV section on AO, so you can ask for help and tips.
hope that helps..
I had a TS for over 10 years - the first 5 or 6 it was my daily driver - for an 'impractical' car, it is actually fairly practical - we did driving holidays round France in it (leave the spare behind!) and it was very reliable. Fuel economy was mostly mid 30s, better on long runs. For a 4 it also sounds lovely and pulls all the way to the rev-limiter!
Back to your quandary: a friend, now with a 3.0 V6 had previously owned a TS - he has admitted to preferring the balance of the TS - V6 is a bit nose heavy (which he found to his cost - but that's another story!) Having said that - he's still got it.
Back to your quandary: a friend, now with a 3.0 V6 had previously owned a TS - he has admitted to preferring the balance of the TS - V6 is a bit nose heavy (which he found to his cost - but that's another story!) Having said that - he's still got it.
Alfa owners say get the 2 litre ahead of the V6??? Which Alfa owners, the ones who own a TS?
The V6 is glorious, and if it is as you say and you've always wanted one, then nothing else will do. The TS needs its belts changing more often than the V6 so some of the running costs are offset.
Buy the V6.
The V6 is glorious, and if it is as you say and you've always wanted one, then nothing else will do. The TS needs its belts changing more often than the V6 so some of the running costs are offset.
Buy the V6.
I had both and there really is no comparison.
The 2.0 is not slow but nothing spectacular. Drive the 3.0 and you won't consider the 2.0. The only thing the 2.0 has is that it's more than a bit more nimble. I was given a 2.0 courtesy car while my 3.0 was being serviced and it did remind me of the one thing I now lacked with the 3.0. I drove both of my car fast and you could really tell the difference.
Towards the end of owning the 3.0 I got Bilstein shocks/Eibach springs. Probably largely due to the old parts being completely shot @ 90k miles the car was hugely more fun in the corners.
I wouldn't let fuel economy sway you, the 2.0 is more expensive to service and IMO far more likely to break. Also I wouldn't say either of them was quiet or particularly comfortable. Fun but noisy, hard to really minimise wind noise despite perfectly aligned windows.
The 2.0 is not slow but nothing spectacular. Drive the 3.0 and you won't consider the 2.0. The only thing the 2.0 has is that it's more than a bit more nimble. I was given a 2.0 courtesy car while my 3.0 was being serviced and it did remind me of the one thing I now lacked with the 3.0. I drove both of my car fast and you could really tell the difference.
Towards the end of owning the 3.0 I got Bilstein shocks/Eibach springs. Probably largely due to the old parts being completely shot @ 90k miles the car was hugely more fun in the corners.
I wouldn't let fuel economy sway you, the 2.0 is more expensive to service and IMO far more likely to break. Also I wouldn't say either of them was quiet or particularly comfortable. Fun but noisy, hard to really minimise wind noise despite perfectly aligned windows.
If you're even thinking of the V6 then that's the only one. If you go for the TS you'll always regret it.
The Alfa V6 is pretty well bullet-proof. Cambelt changes (as already stated) are less frequent and it doesn't consume oil like the TS. And, of course, the sound....
I've been thinking of adding a Spider or GTV to the fleet and it will only be a V6! HTH
The Alfa V6 is pretty well bullet-proof. Cambelt changes (as already stated) are less frequent and it doesn't consume oil like the TS. And, of course, the sound....
I've been thinking of adding a Spider or GTV to the fleet and it will only be a V6! HTH
I have had both the ts handling balance is far better with better damping at the front aswell. Ross brawn former ferrarri f1 boss prefered the to choose a 166 2.0 for the same reasons. Having said all that the sound and torque of the v6 is fantastic.
I have a v6 gtv at present but do miss the ts handling balance. The ts feels more balanced front to rear wheras the v6 always feels nose heavy and a bit crashy over bumps.
Selling my v6 bt the way for something practical !.
I have a v6 gtv at present but do miss the ts handling balance. The ts feels more balanced front to rear wheras the v6 always feels nose heavy and a bit crashy over bumps.
Selling my v6 bt the way for something practical !.
James, I think you have understated just how impractical your MX-5 is. Even a GTV is significantly more practical compared to your car. That, and knowing that you want to keep expenditure down, is why I've recommended the TS over the V6. Personally for me there was no consideration of the 2.0 as I wanted the whole V6 experience.
I hadn't realised how handy you are with the spanners, and hadn't thought about how much access you will have to workshop equipment including hoists so if you are capable of doing the belt change yourself then maybe my car could be worth your consideration as the saving you could make on labour would add value to the car. I believe parts are not too expensive but see www.ebspares.co.uk and add up a shopping list. Cam locking tools are £60+ but could probably be borrowed for an AROC or AO member as mentioned above. As far as a know the standard main dealer technique is engine out to change the belts on the V6 - really! However, most specialists hoist the engine, loosen mounts and shift the engine a little to gain vital access. I have a full set of 5 ring binders that are the original Workshop manual which I will be selling later, but you are welcome to look over. I can also send PDFs of relevant sections on CD.
Also if you haven't had chance to drive a V6 yet to help inform your decision do head over to Warwick and take my car for a spin. Obviously with the Q2 and other mods it is somewhat different from standard.
I hadn't realised how handy you are with the spanners, and hadn't thought about how much access you will have to workshop equipment including hoists so if you are capable of doing the belt change yourself then maybe my car could be worth your consideration as the saving you could make on labour would add value to the car. I believe parts are not too expensive but see www.ebspares.co.uk and add up a shopping list. Cam locking tools are £60+ but could probably be borrowed for an AROC or AO member as mentioned above. As far as a know the standard main dealer technique is engine out to change the belts on the V6 - really! However, most specialists hoist the engine, loosen mounts and shift the engine a little to gain vital access. I have a full set of 5 ring binders that are the original Workshop manual which I will be selling later, but you are welcome to look over. I can also send PDFs of relevant sections on CD.
Also if you haven't had chance to drive a V6 yet to help inform your decision do head over to Warwick and take my car for a spin. Obviously with the Q2 and other mods it is somewhat different from standard.
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