Fiat Coupe 20VT - Handling + Dynamics
Discussion
Hi all. Done loads of research on fccuk and searching on here, Very interested in one of these, but still need some guidance!
I've seen two so far. The first one I saw was too expensive, more of an idle look round. The second one made me like the car as a generic - unfortunately it was way too tatty and needing too much spending on it (despite the big ticket items, clutch, belt etc deing done, and loads of history). Just an un-loved car. I drove this one though, and I am in two minds.
Off to see the third one on Friday - taking a day off and a 500 mile round trip to see it. I am still a little unsure - I am hoping that this car will either be great - and confirm that I do really want one, or it will confirm that the niggles I have should be listened to.Its right on paper, right money, seller making all the right noises, bit of a fixer-upper but nothing I'm scared of
TLDR : I drove one, I'm unsure.
Is the handling really as stodgy as I'm worried it may be? Bear in mind I'm used to flicking a little MX-5 into corners, featherweight car, fingertip controls, tonnes of feedback etc. I didnt get a chance to really throw the Coupe about but it felt 'heavy' and slow to react - perhaps this is just my frame of reference as I've barely driven anything vaguely sporting other than my Mazda in the past few years.
The FCCUK forum is full of people asking how to stop it understeering so much' and if you watch Youtube track-day video's the technique appears to be 'wind on full lock and hope for the best, trying to not to turn too much of your tyres into smoke'.
I worry that the party piece of making Sport Quattro noises and doing 100mph in 3rd gear could wear thin, and wont be enough to make up for whats left in handling/dynamics etc. I am not, ultimately, that bothered about it being much quicker than the Mazda, as its a road car, and I get my kicks carving corners not outdragging people.
...Or it may be that its just a very different car, but still a very good one!?
Finally - the gearbox was awful, long, vague, notchy... are they all like that?
What I wanted from a car is something with more character, something interesting, fun to own, lots to tinker with, and a bit rarer and more special than the Mazda. Its my only car so more long distance capabiltiy, comfort and space is a good thing. Its GOT to be good to drive though, engaging on a B-road.
Am I looking at the right car?
I've seen two so far. The first one I saw was too expensive, more of an idle look round. The second one made me like the car as a generic - unfortunately it was way too tatty and needing too much spending on it (despite the big ticket items, clutch, belt etc deing done, and loads of history). Just an un-loved car. I drove this one though, and I am in two minds.
Off to see the third one on Friday - taking a day off and a 500 mile round trip to see it. I am still a little unsure - I am hoping that this car will either be great - and confirm that I do really want one, or it will confirm that the niggles I have should be listened to.Its right on paper, right money, seller making all the right noises, bit of a fixer-upper but nothing I'm scared of
TLDR : I drove one, I'm unsure.
Is the handling really as stodgy as I'm worried it may be? Bear in mind I'm used to flicking a little MX-5 into corners, featherweight car, fingertip controls, tonnes of feedback etc. I didnt get a chance to really throw the Coupe about but it felt 'heavy' and slow to react - perhaps this is just my frame of reference as I've barely driven anything vaguely sporting other than my Mazda in the past few years.
The FCCUK forum is full of people asking how to stop it understeering so much' and if you watch Youtube track-day video's the technique appears to be 'wind on full lock and hope for the best, trying to not to turn too much of your tyres into smoke'.
I worry that the party piece of making Sport Quattro noises and doing 100mph in 3rd gear could wear thin, and wont be enough to make up for whats left in handling/dynamics etc. I am not, ultimately, that bothered about it being much quicker than the Mazda, as its a road car, and I get my kicks carving corners not outdragging people.
...Or it may be that its just a very different car, but still a very good one!?
Finally - the gearbox was awful, long, vague, notchy... are they all like that?
What I wanted from a car is something with more character, something interesting, fun to own, lots to tinker with, and a bit rarer and more special than the Mazda. Its my only car so more long distance capabiltiy, comfort and space is a good thing. Its GOT to be good to drive though, engaging on a B-road.
Am I looking at the right car?
To be honest with you they will never handle like an MX5 even with spending huge amounts of money on them, they are a GT car after all with a big 5cyl engine out front.
Nigel O will be along shortly to fill you in on what can be done but it won't be cheap even if refreshing with standard bits (I've been there). Everything on the suspension side gets a hard time especially on the turbo cars and is usually shot by 70Kish.
Gearboxes can be notchy from cold but generally improve with a decent fluid change, when warm they are usually slick but again not MX5 like. They are a good car but approach with caution, have another look at the FC Forum for things to check.
Nigel O will be along shortly to fill you in on what can be done but it won't be cheap even if refreshing with standard bits (I've been there). Everything on the suspension side gets a hard time especially on the turbo cars and is usually shot by 70Kish.
Gearboxes can be notchy from cold but generally improve with a decent fluid change, when warm they are usually slick but again not MX5 like. They are a good car but approach with caution, have another look at the FC Forum for things to check.
Edited by wal 45 on Wednesday 18th July 17:34
Edited by wal 45 on Wednesday 18th July 17:36
If this is linked with your other 'finding a car thread' then there isn't a car on this planet which meets your criteria, your needs are sometimes contradictory and in total conflict with one another!
A Coupe for under a grand will need about another grand spending on the suspension to make it handle well, out of all the cars based on the same suspension/floor pan it is the most nose heavy, it hangs out a long way and the bonnet alone weighs about 27kg.
The HPE is a cracking little car on the same base, way out of your price range, but at least you won't be throwing money down the toilet.
You've got to have a screw loose to own a Coupe long term.
A Coupe for under a grand will need about another grand spending on the suspension to make it handle well, out of all the cars based on the same suspension/floor pan it is the most nose heavy, it hangs out a long way and the bonnet alone weighs about 27kg.
The HPE is a cracking little car on the same base, way out of your price range, but at least you won't be throwing money down the toilet.
You've got to have a screw loose to own a Coupe long term.
I replaced my MX5 with a 20VT, but that was with eyes completely wide open and with other cars in the fleet that tick the handling boxes.
If you get your kicks carving corners, the 20VT is not the car for you. It is no way a precision tool. I am aware that things can be improved with a strut brace, coilovers etc. but you can't change the fact that all the weight is over the front axle and the control responses - not only gearchange but brakes and IMO particularly the steering are loose and vague, especially coming from an MX5.
I enjoy my 20VT for its rarity, the creamy five-pot and kick in the back when the turbo spools up, the quirky looks and character, and the "mini Italian supercar" sense of specialness that it imparts. As a straightline cruiser there is little to touch it for the money. Just don't expect it to dance joyfully along a B-road like a lightweight RWD.
If you get your kicks carving corners, the 20VT is not the car for you. It is no way a precision tool. I am aware that things can be improved with a strut brace, coilovers etc. but you can't change the fact that all the weight is over the front axle and the control responses - not only gearchange but brakes and IMO particularly the steering are loose and vague, especially coming from an MX5.
I enjoy my 20VT for its rarity, the creamy five-pot and kick in the back when the turbo spools up, the quirky looks and character, and the "mini Italian supercar" sense of specialness that it imparts. As a straightline cruiser there is little to touch it for the money. Just don't expect it to dance joyfully along a B-road like a lightweight RWD.
I went from an MX5 to a 20VT and don't regret it for a moment. As has been said the handling, steering and gearbox will never match an MX5's but they are fun to drive even as standard.
They have bags of character which you just don't get from Jap cars and you will never tire of noise. As long as you don't expect it to be an amazing handler you will get on with it just fine. The other upside is that I find it just as economical as the MX5 but with much more performance.
They have bags of character which you just don't get from Jap cars and you will never tire of noise. As long as you don't expect it to be an amazing handler you will get on with it just fine. The other upside is that I find it just as economical as the MX5 but with much more performance.
Bear in mind that if all of the front suspension is original then it will need overhauling. The difference in handling between aged rubber bushes / ball joints and refreshed OEM parts is night and day.
I've refreshed all the front suspension on mine and with billies & eibachs and it handles very well. It will still understeer if you chuck it into the corner and instantly use full throttle, but if you drive it slow in, and fast out it is very compliant.
Nigel_O won the handling event for 3 years on the trot in the FWD class of TOTB, and that was against much lighter Novas / Civics, and with billies and eibachs, not coilovers. There's footage on youtube.
EDIT - The Coupe can be made to handle well, but as others have said it is not a lightweight RWD sports car it is a FWD GT car with a heavy engine between the front wheels. You could perform the above handling mods on an MX5 and it would almost certainly drive away from a Coupe with the same mods on twisty B-roads.
I've refreshed all the front suspension on mine and with billies & eibachs and it handles very well. It will still understeer if you chuck it into the corner and instantly use full throttle, but if you drive it slow in, and fast out it is very compliant.
Nigel_O won the handling event for 3 years on the trot in the FWD class of TOTB, and that was against much lighter Novas / Civics, and with billies and eibachs, not coilovers. There's footage on youtube.
EDIT - The Coupe can be made to handle well, but as others have said it is not a lightweight RWD sports car it is a FWD GT car with a heavy engine between the front wheels. You could perform the above handling mods on an MX5 and it would almost certainly drive away from a Coupe with the same mods on twisty B-roads.
Edited by Coupe 20vt on Thursday 19th July 13:22
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