Brera, Scratching An Itch
Discussion
Hello everyone,
My Mrs has decided it's time for a new car, and we'll finally be getting rid of her awful Yaris. I've fancied a Brera for a few years (almost bought one when I was shopping for the Cayman), and far be it from me to miss an opportunity :-)
Anyway, she would like something 4 wheel drive (not sure why), so I'm thinking that the V6 Q4 is the pick for us. Does anyone disagree? Am I missing something? I'd also like to buy the most modern, lowest mileage example I can find in the hope of having some years trouble free.
Having said that, th 1750 gets some good reviews - is that the pick of the bunch?
Tony
My Mrs has decided it's time for a new car, and we'll finally be getting rid of her awful Yaris. I've fancied a Brera for a few years (almost bought one when I was shopping for the Cayman), and far be it from me to miss an opportunity :-)
Anyway, she would like something 4 wheel drive (not sure why), so I'm thinking that the V6 Q4 is the pick for us. Does anyone disagree? Am I missing something? I'd also like to buy the most modern, lowest mileage example I can find in the hope of having some years trouble free.
Having said that, th 1750 gets some good reviews - is that the pick of the bunch?
Tony
Tony,
I wouldn't buy a V6 purely because it's not the Alfa Busso V6. It may very well be a decent engine, but I'd be driving it knowing it wasn't the engine Alfa are famous for. You shouldn't let this put you off of course.
The Alfa Owner forum has some useful guides.
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-brera-anda...
I wouldn't buy a V6 purely because it's not the Alfa Busso V6. It may very well be a decent engine, but I'd be driving it knowing it wasn't the engine Alfa are famous for. You shouldn't let this put you off of course.
The Alfa Owner forum has some useful guides.
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-brera-anda...
The GM V6 in the Brera/Spider/159 is not well loved. Its not hugely powerful (256bhp from 3.2 litres), not particularly tuneful, and not hugely reliable (camchains stretch, amongst other ailments) and is in a high road tax bracket (£535 pa)
The Brera is a hefty car in 2WD form, but in 4WD its over 1600kg dry - add a full tank and a driver and you're looking at 1750kg - this dulls the dynamics of the car, leading to stodgy handling
1750Tbi is definitely the pick of the bunch for fun (although the 2.4 diesel with a remap is highly entertaining - 250bhp with ease)
get some spare alloys and put some good winter tyres on them and you'll never need 4WD
Having said all of the above, its still a very good looking car - distinctive in the usual Alfa way and not a bad drive if you're not pushing it
Stay away from the 2.2 JTS
The Brera is a hefty car in 2WD form, but in 4WD its over 1600kg dry - add a full tank and a driver and you're looking at 1750kg - this dulls the dynamics of the car, leading to stodgy handling
1750Tbi is definitely the pick of the bunch for fun (although the 2.4 diesel with a remap is highly entertaining - 250bhp with ease)
get some spare alloys and put some good winter tyres on them and you'll never need 4WD
Having said all of the above, its still a very good looking car - distinctive in the usual Alfa way and not a bad drive if you're not pushing it
Stay away from the 2.2 JTS
I had a similar itch for an Alfa a couple of years ago and bought a V6 Q4 159 Sportswagon. The experience proved to be everything I feared and only lasted 6 months before I got rid of it. I agree with comments on the 3.2 lacklustre performance and iffy reliability, I experienced both. I had previously own a V6 Saab Aero with essentially the same GM engine but in 2.8 turbo guise. There’s nothing wrong with the engine itself, it’s just the bits Alfa have touched that have ruined it. The Saab’s performance was far superior to the Alfa and was completely trouble free during the 2 years I owned it.
My advice would be to steer clear of a brera, especially the V6. I always lusted over them and finally bought one a couple of years ago for less than £4k as a runaround for daily driving. It was Alfa red with the V6 and for the money it was a lot of car and looked beautiful. However the performance was poor and the handling wasn't great due to the weight. Another issue was the fuel consumption, I literally thought there was a hole in the fuel tank. It cost more to run than my Aston Martin V8 Vantage. Finally the biggest problem for me was reliability as I had a handful of electrical problems with the car I was told the cam chain would soon need replacing when it went for a service which is an eye watering expense. I sold the car after 6 months.
Such a shame as the do look fantastic but its a car I wish I'd never owned as it really was a case of don't meet your hero. If you are set on one I would say get the best you can with full service history and go for the 2.2. The V6 is too heavy, not that fast and the extra running costs aren't worth it.
Trev
Such a shame as the do look fantastic but its a car I wish I'd never owned as it really was a case of don't meet your hero. If you are set on one I would say get the best you can with full service history and go for the 2.2. The V6 is too heavy, not that fast and the extra running costs aren't worth it.
Trev
codieskid said:
...go for the 2.2.
I would say avoid the 2.2, it's not highly regarded. Prone to timing chain stretch (if not treated to regular oil changes) as the V6 without the performance but with a comparable thirst.The diesels are probably the better choices and can be chipped/tuned to give a very decent performance though the Brera is still at heart a cruiser rather than a balls-out sports car.
Well gents, thank you all very much for the detailed responses. Unfortunately, the one thing they all have in common is that no one really recommends buying one - which is a crying shame.
I honestly think I'll give it a miss now just based on what everyone here has said. I really don't mind spending good money maintaining a car, but there's nothing more stressful than constantly having to feed one with parts or continually worry that something will break. Especially if it's not a particularly good steer.
Maybe we should lease a Giulia instead. What a shame.
I honestly think I'll give it a miss now just based on what everyone here has said. I really don't mind spending good money maintaining a car, but there's nothing more stressful than constantly having to feed one with parts or continually worry that something will break. Especially if it's not a particularly good steer.
Maybe we should lease a Giulia instead. What a shame.
What about a late GT?
The Brera was supposed to replace the GT, but ended up being dropped while the GT carried on until 2010/11
The GT isn’t as refined as the 159/Brera, but it’s decent enough and extremely practical, despite its Coupe shape
The last of the line Cloverleaf models are decently quick with the 170bhp diesel and the handling is pretty neat, mainly down to the couple of hundred kg weight benefit over the Brera
Not quite as pretty as the Brera though....
The Brera was supposed to replace the GT, but ended up being dropped while the GT carried on until 2010/11
The GT isn’t as refined as the 159/Brera, but it’s decent enough and extremely practical, despite its Coupe shape
The last of the line Cloverleaf models are decently quick with the 170bhp diesel and the handling is pretty neat, mainly down to the couple of hundred kg weight benefit over the Brera
Not quite as pretty as the Brera though....
Funkstar De Luxe said:
Hello everyone,
My Mrs has decided it's time for a new car, and we'll finally be getting rid of her awful Yaris. I've fancied a Brera for a few years (almost bought one when I was shopping for the Cayman), and far be it from me to miss an opportunity :-)
Anyway, she would like something 4 wheel drive (not sure why), so I'm thinking that the V6 Q4 is the pick for us. Does anyone disagree? Am I missing something? I'd also like to buy the most modern, lowest mileage example I can find in the hope of having some years trouble free.
Having said that, th 1750 gets some good reviews - is that the pick of the bunch?
Tony
I got rid of my Brea (pro drive 3.2) after around a year, it was very pretty but... heavy, not very fast, had loads of annoying niggles, very thirsty and I was constantly thinking it was going to blow up (irrational probably).My Mrs has decided it's time for a new car, and we'll finally be getting rid of her awful Yaris. I've fancied a Brera for a few years (almost bought one when I was shopping for the Cayman), and far be it from me to miss an opportunity :-)
Anyway, she would like something 4 wheel drive (not sure why), so I'm thinking that the V6 Q4 is the pick for us. Does anyone disagree? Am I missing something? I'd also like to buy the most modern, lowest mileage example I can find in the hope of having some years trouble free.
Having said that, th 1750 gets some good reviews - is that the pick of the bunch?
Tony
Did you get a Cayman? I had one before the Brera and it was the better car in every respect, maybe bar the looks at a push.
Having said that they are fairly cheap (in non Prod Drive spec) so it's a trade off, but I would probably stay clear.
I’ve had 3 159s and own a GT V6 Busso so have a good view on the Brera options. If I were you I’d go for a 1750 and with a light map it would go very well. You’ll also get the late run interior which I love in these! Don’t think these will have hugely better fuel economy though..they don’t! But if you’re doing less than 15k a year who cares? It’s lighter in the nose than the other options and with some power flex bushes will to a good extent improve handling and front tyre wear. If you go for the V6 I’d go for the Prodrive V6 which has the updated suspension set up. A much better drive. Avoid 2.2 and as Nigel O points out a mapped 2.4 will provide a tidal wave of torque, the trade off will be a heavier nose going in to corners than a 1750. They’re special cars, different! If more practicality needed you cannot go far wrong with the 159 Ti & Sportwagon Ti. I currently run a 2 litre Jtdm mapped to 200hp and it’s actually a nice car to drive.
I've been asked to go and look at one of these for someone. A 3.2 JTS Q4
I've heard about the chain problems, do I need to hear it from a cold start up to hear this?
Any other input would be great, although I know a fair bit about cars I don't have much experience with Alfas.
I mostly inspect for previous accident repairs, but would be handy to hear about other stuff to watch out for on this particular model.
I've heard about the chain problems, do I need to hear it from a cold start up to hear this?
Any other input would be great, although I know a fair bit about cars I don't have much experience with Alfas.
I mostly inspect for previous accident repairs, but would be handy to hear about other stuff to watch out for on this particular model.
I’m not that familiar with Alfa’s either but did pick up a few gems from owning a 3.2 Q4 SW for 6 months.
From what I was told a lumpy running is the first sign of a stretching chain. Look out for regular oil changes (more frequent than Alfa recommend) as this seems to be the best preventive measure. My chain seemed fine, probably as it had a full Alfa SH with an oil change every 8,000 miles.
Mine wasn’t without it’s problems though, the steering rack failed at 70,000 miles, quite normal apparently and £1000+ to replace.
Mine also suffered the common oil temperature gauge failure. The sensor fails resulting in a flashing warning light on the gauge. It’s a cheap part to replace but an engine out job to get to it, another £1000+. I left mine as most people do, I just blanked off the gauge.
Another problem I suffered was misfire due to a burnt out spark plug every 2000 miles. No one seemed to know why or how to cure it. Apparently I was lucky as it was on the front bank and only took 10 mins to change. If it was on the rear bank it requires the inlet manifold removing to get to the plugs. Also forums are full of stories of burnt out coil packs within hundreds, not thousands, of miles.
The under tray was also missing, when I enquired about getting a replacement I was told that dealers had been instructed to remove them. Alfa in their wisdom had put carpet on the top of it for sound deadening but as soon as it rained it held water like a sponge and started rotting out the subframe!
I also heard of failed suspension parts, weak mass air flow sensors, leaky door rubbers and failing petrol pumps but decided to throw in the towel before I got that far.
From what I was told a lumpy running is the first sign of a stretching chain. Look out for regular oil changes (more frequent than Alfa recommend) as this seems to be the best preventive measure. My chain seemed fine, probably as it had a full Alfa SH with an oil change every 8,000 miles.
Mine wasn’t without it’s problems though, the steering rack failed at 70,000 miles, quite normal apparently and £1000+ to replace.
Mine also suffered the common oil temperature gauge failure. The sensor fails resulting in a flashing warning light on the gauge. It’s a cheap part to replace but an engine out job to get to it, another £1000+. I left mine as most people do, I just blanked off the gauge.
Another problem I suffered was misfire due to a burnt out spark plug every 2000 miles. No one seemed to know why or how to cure it. Apparently I was lucky as it was on the front bank and only took 10 mins to change. If it was on the rear bank it requires the inlet manifold removing to get to the plugs. Also forums are full of stories of burnt out coil packs within hundreds, not thousands, of miles.
The under tray was also missing, when I enquired about getting a replacement I was told that dealers had been instructed to remove them. Alfa in their wisdom had put carpet on the top of it for sound deadening but as soon as it rained it held water like a sponge and started rotting out the subframe!
I also heard of failed suspension parts, weak mass air flow sensors, leaky door rubbers and failing petrol pumps but decided to throw in the towel before I got that far.
I have a Prodrive 2.2. I thought about a V6 but it's not the Busso, doesn't sound great and costs are prohibitive IMO.
Mine was trouble free for 2 years but I have just spent £1100 on new springs all round, new front discs and pads for the MOT. Apparently spring failure is quite common.
But it's a very nice car and very well built. Mine is coming up to 9 years old, 52,000 miles and there is not a single rattle or squeak, nothing has fallen off and everything works. With the 2.2 engine camchain/tensioner failure is rare and flagged up by the car computer in advance. Annual oil change does a lot to prevent premature wear.
Mine was trouble free for 2 years but I have just spent £1100 on new springs all round, new front discs and pads for the MOT. Apparently spring failure is quite common.
But it's a very nice car and very well built. Mine is coming up to 9 years old, 52,000 miles and there is not a single rattle or squeak, nothing has fallen off and everything works. With the 2.2 engine camchain/tensioner failure is rare and flagged up by the car computer in advance. Annual oil change does a lot to prevent premature wear.
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