Retropower 105
Discussion
https://www.facebook.com/alfajuniorbyretropower/
discuss :-)
i like this, a lot. ok its nowhere near original, but to me its what i would do if i had the budget. 2.7Litre millington diamond NA with 330bhp, in a lightweight fully prepped car. proper brakes, proper suspension.
discuss :-)
i like this, a lot. ok its nowhere near original, but to me its what i would do if i had the budget. 2.7Litre millington diamond NA with 330bhp, in a lightweight fully prepped car. proper brakes, proper suspension.
Call me a purist, but no. Just no 
I do admire the fabrication and skill that was involved. But I would be shopping at Alfaholics and bag a GTA-R for that sort of money (I assuming). Less power yes, but I think I could be happy with around 220/230 bhp in my Alfa and have a real Alfa sound (not that this won't sound great, but just not right to me).
To each their own off course! I do like the colour choice, it suits the car and build well I think.
I do admire the fabrication and skill that was involved. But I would be shopping at Alfaholics and bag a GTA-R for that sort of money (I assuming). Less power yes, but I think I could be happy with around 220/230 bhp in my Alfa and have a real Alfa sound (not that this won't sound great, but just not right to me). To each their own off course! I do like the colour choice, it suits the car and build well I think.
Mine were similar thoughts, a Diamond in an Alfa.... wow, brilliant, but not really in an Alfa sort of way.
For an ultimate performance Bertone Coupe it would take some beating, but sadly a Mk2 Escort with that Engine would do handsomely and the diamond feels right to be in an Escort for obvious reasons.
So no I think I’d stick with a developed Alfa engine and crucially it’s gearbox too. Not as fast by any means, but more what a good 105 should be.
Still room in the world for the Retro power one and I’d love to see and hear it in action.
For an ultimate performance Bertone Coupe it would take some beating, but sadly a Mk2 Escort with that Engine would do handsomely and the diamond feels right to be in an Escort for obvious reasons.
So no I think I’d stick with a developed Alfa engine and crucially it’s gearbox too. Not as fast by any means, but more what a good 105 should be.
Still room in the world for the Retro power one and I’d love to see and hear it in action.
I'm supplying a lot of the parts for this and have to admire what they're doing, there are some nice engineering solutions and they're making a really nice job of it.
They'll end up with a faster car (no doubt), the only problem from my point of view is that with the De Dion rear end it'll handle more like a 75 than a 105 so all the character of the original car is gone. When you drive one of these old Alfas the first thing you notice is the long mechanical feeling gearshift travel and the second is the lovely little "wiggle" that the rear end has over bumps. They just aren't going to be there any more.
But full marks for doing something different.
They'll end up with a faster car (no doubt), the only problem from my point of view is that with the De Dion rear end it'll handle more like a 75 than a 105 so all the character of the original car is gone. When you drive one of these old Alfas the first thing you notice is the long mechanical feeling gearshift travel and the second is the lovely little "wiggle" that the rear end has over bumps. They just aren't going to be there any more.
But full marks for doing something different.
Yes I wondered about the complete new rear end setup it's totally removed the alfaness of the car along with the engine also but it should be stunningly quick and still has the timeless Alfa look.
The engineering side of it looks fab, hoping we see some you tube footage when finished in a similar fashion to the Alfaholics gtar
The engineering side of it looks fab, hoping we see some you tube footage when finished in a similar fashion to the Alfaholics gtar
I don't get it 
.
Assuming its use is mainly for trackdays - if you want fun just get an original on skinny rims and/or on cross ply tyres
(yes you will be passed by everything else, but whatever car you have there will always be a quicker car going past you).
If you want fast, just get a Radical.
I've NO idea what it will cost (couldn't they afford a step front shell?
) but it must be close to real GTA territory.
.Assuming its use is mainly for trackdays - if you want fun just get an original on skinny rims and/or on cross ply tyres
(yes you will be passed by everything else, but whatever car you have there will always be a quicker car going past you).
If you want fast, just get a Radical.
I've NO idea what it will cost (couldn't they afford a step front shell?
) but it must be close to real GTA territory.Mound Dawg said:
Maybe they didn't want a step front shell. We've built a few GTA-Rs on later 2000 type shells because the owner preferred the shape.
£50k plus for a Millington diamond engine alone if I recall. Big budget build in every way. If I'd lottery win cash I'd be having one and an Alfaholics GTAR to boot :-)
I love it, and the fact they are shaking things up a bit with this restomod.
Refreshing.
I love 105s and 75s, could be a good marriage.
What’s so wrong with it handling a bit like a 75? Theres plenty out there that rape them for their engines, but don’t hark on about loss of character then.
Refreshing.
I love 105s and 75s, could be a good marriage.
What’s so wrong with it handling a bit like a 75? Theres plenty out there that rape them for their engines, but don’t hark on about loss of character then.
200Plus Club said:
£50k plus for a Millington diamond engine alone if I recall. Big budget build in every way.
If I'd lottery win cash I'd be having one and an Alfaholics GTAR to boot :-)
Hi folks, Nat at Retropower here.If I'd lottery win cash I'd be having one and an Alfaholics GTAR to boot :-)
Firstly thanks for the comments, its definitely a "marmite" car! Thanks for the support too Mound Dawg. I agree on the comments regarding things like the gear selector being part of the original character of the car. While losing that does lose key character, the sequential box makes up in other areas!
Similarly with the engine, yes using an Alfa unit would have been desirable, but that was discounted on available power, and the Millington gives a nice "built in the UK" twist to the car.
There are a good number of Alfaholics parts on the car (front suspension/steering in particular), and the quality of those parts is exceptional. It was very refreshing to be supplied parts of such a high standard (this often isn't the case!!)
The car completed its first track test on wednesday last week in the pouring rain at Mallory Park, with no problems at all. (literally none which is very unusual if I am totally honest, I usually expect to have a minor niggle of some sort!)
Really needs a dry test to actually allow some use of the power now as a grassy/muddy excursion was a reminder about how slippery things were on wednesday!
Lastly, I've quoted the post above as this is a long way wide of the mark! The engine in the car was £15k, not £50k! Its a rebuilt 2.7 millington series 1 unit. Even a brand new series 2 2.7 is much much less than that number!!!
PS meant to add, regarding the loss of character of the suspension, its not quite as simple as it appears.
The decision to go De-dion happened very early on in the project. As far as I am aware the major known weakness of the rear end design on the 105 is the t bar setup giving rise to a rather high roll centre. Not that this is necessarily a terrible thing, but the sliding block setup was introduced to combat this so I figured there must have been some benefit.
Due to me not being an alfa expert, I was also a little nervous about fitting stock-ish axle since from the start the project aim was 300hp and over 220 lbft of torque.
Since we deduced from this that a diff strength upgrade could/would/may be beneficial, and that lowering the roll centre may also be useful, ) and that the "live axle character" of predictable sideways progress when needed was still required, it became clear that some re-engineering was necessary.
With all that taken into account, and discounting the sliding block setup as not very practical for a road car used regularly, the de-dion setup made a lot of sense since it could incorporate all of the requirements without completely chopping the bodyshell up.
The actual mounting of the longitudinal axle links to the bodyshell are the same in terms of location as the stock 105. Just that the t bar is changed to a pair of links bracketted to the original rail locations that held the t bar brackets.
The only other change in terms of location is using a watts linkage rather than the t bar for lateral location in order to lower the roll centre. (a pretty common 105 modification with the live axle setup I believe)
Obviously this will all affect the character, but it will still have the key "feel" of a live axle car but without the unsprung weight. (though possibly with slightly increased sprung weight)
The Alfetta beam was actually chosen only because the Alfetta was the only car I could think of that used a de-dion tube with forged ends and of a suitable strength for the weight of the car. The only other beam that is easy to get hold of is the caterham unit and that is nowhere near strong enough (they crack on caterhams pretty regularly!!) The other way would have been to fabricate from scratch which while not an issue for me to do, would have necessitated a much more complex jig than the steel beam used for the alfetta modifications, and taken a lot longer. So by luck really the car ended up with other Alfa parts in it!
So there you have it, most of my thought process that went into the principle of the rear end. it certainly isn't the "best" way to do it, and it definitely isn't the original way to do it, but its the way we decided to do it and so far it seems to work! just need a dry track test now!
The decision to go De-dion happened very early on in the project. As far as I am aware the major known weakness of the rear end design on the 105 is the t bar setup giving rise to a rather high roll centre. Not that this is necessarily a terrible thing, but the sliding block setup was introduced to combat this so I figured there must have been some benefit.
Due to me not being an alfa expert, I was also a little nervous about fitting stock-ish axle since from the start the project aim was 300hp and over 220 lbft of torque.
Since we deduced from this that a diff strength upgrade could/would/may be beneficial, and that lowering the roll centre may also be useful, ) and that the "live axle character" of predictable sideways progress when needed was still required, it became clear that some re-engineering was necessary.
With all that taken into account, and discounting the sliding block setup as not very practical for a road car used regularly, the de-dion setup made a lot of sense since it could incorporate all of the requirements without completely chopping the bodyshell up.
The actual mounting of the longitudinal axle links to the bodyshell are the same in terms of location as the stock 105. Just that the t bar is changed to a pair of links bracketted to the original rail locations that held the t bar brackets.
The only other change in terms of location is using a watts linkage rather than the t bar for lateral location in order to lower the roll centre. (a pretty common 105 modification with the live axle setup I believe)
Obviously this will all affect the character, but it will still have the key "feel" of a live axle car but without the unsprung weight. (though possibly with slightly increased sprung weight)
The Alfetta beam was actually chosen only because the Alfetta was the only car I could think of that used a de-dion tube with forged ends and of a suitable strength for the weight of the car. The only other beam that is easy to get hold of is the caterham unit and that is nowhere near strong enough (they crack on caterhams pretty regularly!!) The other way would have been to fabricate from scratch which while not an issue for me to do, would have necessitated a much more complex jig than the steel beam used for the alfetta modifications, and taken a lot longer. So by luck really the car ended up with other Alfa parts in it!
So there you have it, most of my thought process that went into the principle of the rear end. it certainly isn't the "best" way to do it, and it definitely isn't the original way to do it, but its the way we decided to do it and so far it seems to work! just need a dry track test now!
The car will be at the retro rides weekend at Goodwood on the 19th and 20th May, will ask it’s owner what else he has planned, I know he will be at retro rides gathering at shelsley Walsh later in the year too and I know he is doing a hillclimb in Italy later in the year too but not sure on details of that
Nat1977 said:
The car will be at the retro rides weekend at Goodwood on the 19th and 20th May, will ask it’s owner what else he has planned, I know he will be at retro rides gathering at shelsley Walsh later in the year too and I know he is doing a hillclimb in Italy later in the year too but not sure on details of that
Cool keep us informed ta!Gassing Station | Alfa Romeo, Fiat & Lancia | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff