147 GTA value?

[cnut]

Hi,

I am looking at purchasing a 147 GTA. By sheer chance I managed to find one local to me with the following spec:

1 owner from new
56K
Alfa Red (had a full body respray a few years ago)
FSH
Black & tan leather seats
Winter pack
Autodelta exhaust & induction kit
Bilstein B12s

The condition looks good although you can tell it's been sat for a while due to corroded brakes, engine requiring a detail etc.

It's booked in at Autolusso to have the headgaskets replaced, timing belt, service and MOT plus anything else that needs doing.

My negatives with the car is that the brake calipers need refurbishing (paint faded etc) and it surprisingly doesn't have a Q2 diff!

With all this in mind what would you estimate the value to be?

Thanks

Phil

[omniflow]

Wild guess - £12K - £14K

Who has booked it into Autolusso - you, or the current owner. There are other Alfa specialists out there who might be preferable to Autolusso.

[cnut]

Thank you. Your estimate is pretty bang on with what they are asking for.

The current owner has booked it into them. I'm guessing the work will run well into the thousands?

[xyyman]

I'm wondering why head gaskets at 58k? V6's are pretty bomb proof so maybe its overheated, if so the heads, particularly the rear, may have warped so something to have checked rather than just a gasket change and hope all is well.

I'd budget for a Q2/Quaife as an essential for these, or any, V6 Alfa. Makes an amazing difference, I'd rather have had that done first before fitting Billy's.

[cnut]

From what I have heard it’s caused by a combination of factors.

Firstly the GTAs come with CF3 manifolds that have precats in them. The manifolds generate a lot of heat over the older CF2 3.0s manifolds and this in time can cause head gasket failures.

Another factor which may well be a contributing case in this example is down to age and lack of use, which going by the owners own admission he hardly uses it.

I think my issue with this car is that although it has some really strong selling points (how many original owner GTAs are still out there) I would realistically need to spend at least another 1k on top to do the Q2 diff. Which makes it quite a pricey purchase...

[omniflow]

Buy it - but try to convince the current owner to use a different garage.

I have a one-owner GTA - but a 156 SW (19 years old this October), which for some reason is worth less than a 147.

Mine has been serviced religiously every 12 months (only once by Autolusso), and needed the head gaskets doing about 7 years ago. Once it gets under your skin, which it will, then it's something you will want to own forever. I will never sell mine

[cnut]

I think I will have to. Seems a once in blue moon opportunity to get one with such history. It’s a shame the owner is quite clued up on its value though!

It will be my weekend/fun car as I work from home but if I keep it nice, which I will it can only go upwards in value if I decide to sell which I very doubt I will!

I always thought the 156 GTA SW was the most desirable and expensive of GTAs? Surprised to hear they don’t go for as much as a 147.

Is there any reason you don’t think much of Autolusso? I have heard some stories about them... I personally use Alfanet in Bristol which is well worth the drive for me and I am happy to stay loyal them.

[RonnieHotdogs]

I would also look elsewhere for work on your Alfa.

I once made the trip to the afore mentioned 'specialist' and it was without doubt the absolute worst and most expensive experience I've ever had having work done to a car.

I then found a specialist local to me who's standard of work, level of care and attitude were leagues better. And significantly cheaper.

But you're free to make your own opinion, there's plenty of other reviews out there to read, and plenty of information regarding the company and its current and previous operating practices.

[Unbusy]

Admittedly only looking on eBay over the last 3 years or so the asking price is around £10,000. Some rougher cars are priced around £8,500 and cars with low mileage/Pearl white/essential mods done around £12-14,000.
There are a few companies bring over Japanese cars with low mileage, zero rust, but little or no service history. The vast majority have the Alfa auto box/paddles that I have no experience of.
Personally I can’t bring myself to pay that much for a 147 just because it has a Busso engine. It’s quick but these days it’s going to lose the traffic light Grand Prix against modern pocket rockets. So where is the value?
I keep looking because I want one, but at half the asking price.
One of my daily drives is a 147 Q2 and I have a Busso in another car so I’m kind of familiar with Alfas. They must be getting their asking price, or close to it, but for me there are other better cars on my list for £12k.

[cnut]

Unbusy said:

Admittedly only looking on eBay over the last 3 years or so the asking price is around £10,000. Some rougher cars are priced around £8,500 and cars with low mileage/Pearl white/essential mods done around £12-14,000.
There are a few companies bring over Japanese cars with low mileage, zero rust, but little or no service history. The vast majority have the Alfa auto box/paddles that I have no experience of.
Personally I can’t bring myself to pay that much for a 147 just because it has a Busso engine. It’s quick but these days it’s going to lose the traffic light Grand Prix against modern pocket rockets. So where is the value?
I keep looking because I want one, but at half the asking price.
One of my daily drives is a 147 Q2 and I have a Busso in another car so I’m kind of familiar with Alfas. They must be getting their asking price, or close to it, but for me there are other better cars on my list for £12k.

I guess the value is in it's desirability. The last of the line Busso engined hot hatch. Sure there are better cars out there would leave it for dust for the same price, Golf R springs to mind. But you are almost guaranteed to see at least one a day when you drive around, where is the exclusivity in that? As an everyday car I would take the Golf R over the GTA any day but as an occasional weekend car I would much rather have a GTA.

Mine will be a keeper, I intend to keep it as long as I can and going by the values, decent examples will only continue to appreciate. Whilst comparing it to similarly priced modern hatch they have only really just started depreciating. So to me the GTA is a car that I could almost see as an investment, one that I can be confident that if I decided to sell it a few years down the line, I would at least get my money back.

[cnut]

RonnieHotdogs said:

I would also look elsewhere for work on your Alfa.

I once made the trip to the afore mentioned 'specialist' and it was without doubt the absolute worst and most expensive experience I've ever had having work done to a car.

I then found a specialist local to me who's standard of work, level of care and attitude were leagues better. And significantly cheaper.

But you're free to make your own opinion, there's plenty of other reviews out there to read, and plenty of information regarding the company and its current and previous operating practices.

I have had a scan through the forums but can't really see anything negative about them?

[MattyB_]

I've never used them - but Autolusso had an almost feverish following on AlfaOwner, and Ned was very frequent on the forum. I do recall negative posts being shouted down. However, many garages have unhappy customers, it's unavoidable so I wouldn't worry, they have many people who are pleased with what they do.

That being said, I'd be really, really concerned about a 147/156GTA that's been sitting. My GTA was one of the most expensive cars I've owned; it was perfectly reliable but just needed almost endless TLC to keep it in good shape, chewing through consumable parts at a crazy rate. Make sure it gets a proper inspection and a thorough drive to see what shape it's in.

I'll also quantify this with the fact that after 22 years and 20 cars, my 147GTA is still the best car I ever owned. I absolutely loved that car.

[omniflow]

MattyB_ said:

I've never used them - but Autolusso had an almost feverish following on AlfaOwner, and Ned was very frequent on the forum. I do recall negative posts being shouted down. However, many garages have unhappy customers, it's unavoidable so I wouldn't worry, they have many people who are pleased with what they do.

That being said, I'd be really, really concerned about a 147/156GTA that's been sitting. My GTA was one of the most expensive cars I've owned; it was perfectly reliable but just needed almost endless TLC to keep it in good shape, chewing through consumable parts at a crazy rate. Make sure it gets a proper inspection and a thorough drive to see what shape it's in.

I'll also quantify this with the fact that after 22 years and 20 cars, my 147GTA is still the best car I ever owned. I absolutely loved that car.

A feverish following on Alfaowner - too bloody right. So feverish it actually used to make me wonder how many of the posters were actually genuine and how many were working for an online marketing agency - and this was before Season 6 and 7 of Homeland. Just to be clear - that is pure speculation on my part and nothing more. However, when I was paying my bill on the one occasion I used them I noticed lots of boxes in the office that were addressed to Alfaowner at the Autolusso address, so that made me think there was a closer relationship between the 2 entities than was generally assumed. I agree that every garage has unhappy customers - it's how genuine the happy ones are that I'm less sure about.

Also, the proprietor was extremely disparaging and rude about the proprietors of other Alfa specialists in the South East - something which in my mind was totally unnecessary and an indication of the chap's character.

[Kinky]

I've never used AutoLusso, so can't comment on them positively or otherwise.

But just a small aside, yesterday I tried to book my Alfa into a (genuinely) well respected Indie, for a standard service in the next 2 weeks or so ...... No slots until early next year

I then called around various other Indies, MD, etc and generally speaking you're basically looking at early September!

So if the sale is dependent on the work being done, I'd probably stick with the existing booking.

[cnut]

MattyB_ said:

I've never used them - but Autolusso had an almost feverish following on AlfaOwner, and Ned was very frequent on the forum. I do recall negative posts being shouted down. However, many garages have unhappy customers, it's unavoidable so I wouldn't worry, they have many people who are pleased with what they do.

That being said, I'd be really, really concerned about a 147/156GTA that's been sitting. My GTA was one of the most expensive cars I've owned; it was perfectly reliable but just needed almost endless TLC to keep it in good shape, chewing through consumable parts at a crazy rate. Make sure it gets a proper inspection and a thorough drive to see what shape it's in.

I'll also quantify this with the fact that after 22 years and 20 cars, my 147GTA is still the best car I ever owned. I absolutely loved that car.

It's not the first time I have heard ramblings about them. I have never used them myself but I probably would when I fit a Q2 diff as they have a good supplier deal with Quaife so I would doubt anyone else could match their price.

Thanks I will be going over it as best I can and taking out for a long test drive. As he is asking for top money I will scrutinise everything.

That's good to hear, mine won't be dailyed so I hope this means it won't go through parts so quick!

[cnut]

omniflow said:

A feverish following on Alfaowner - too bloody right. So feverish it actually used to make me wonder how many of the posters were actually genuine and how many were working for an online marketing agency - and this was before Season 6 and 7 of Homeland. Just to be clear - that is pure speculation on my part and nothing more. However, when I was paying my bill on the one occasion I used them I noticed lots of boxes in the office that were addressed to Alfaowner at the Autolusso address, so that made me think there was a closer relationship between the 2 entities than was generally assumed. I agree that every garage has unhappy customers - it's how genuine the happy ones are that I'm less sure about.

Also, the proprietor was extremely disparaging and rude about the proprietors of other Alfa specialists in the South East - something which in my mind was totally unnecessary and an indication of the chap's character.

The guy does come across as being a bit of a teapot, which is more than enough to put me off using them!

[cnut]

Kinky said:

I've never used AutoLusso, so can't comment on them positively or otherwise.

But just a small aside, yesterday I tried to book my Alfa into a (genuinely) well respected Indie, for a standard service in the next 2 weeks or so ...... No slots until early next year

I then called around various other Indies, MD, etc and generally speaking you're basically looking at early September!

So if the sale is dependent on the work being done, I'd probably stick with the existing booking.

That's crazy but not surprising I suppose. I tend to book mine well in advance for any jobs that need doing as this has happened to me many times before.

[Kinky]

I've never experienced this before. My Alfa indie is my go to place for everything. Have been using them for many many years, purchased cars from them, they do my MOT every year, etc, etc. I'm pleased for them, but personally irked.

I know some folks who come over from France and Belgium to have their cars done by them!!!!

[ian996]

said:

MattyB_ said:

I've never used them - but Autolusso had an almost feverish following on AlfaOwner, and Ned was very frequent on the forum. I do recall negative posts being shouted down. However, many garages have unhappy customers, it's unavoidable so I wouldn't worry, they have many people who are pleased with what they do.

That being said, I'd be really, really concerned about a 147/156GTA that's been sitting. My GTA was one of the most expensive cars I've owned; it was perfectly reliable but just needed almost endless TLC to keep it in good shape, chewing through consumable parts at a crazy rate. Make sure it gets a proper inspection and a thorough drive to see what shape it's in.

I'll also quantify this with the fact that after 22 years and 20 cars, my 147GTA is still the best car I ever owned. I absolutely loved that car.

It's not the first time I have heard ramblings about them. I have never used them myself but I probably would when I fit a Q2 diff as they have a good supplier deal with Quaife so I would doubt anyone else could match their price.

I used Autolusso for the first time a couple of month's ago, and would have absolutely no qualms about using them again. I've recently relocated from Kent to Shropshire and, while I was juggling with relocating my cars and bikes, I had my 156 GTA dropped off there for coil overs / ARB's / rear arms, etc, etc to be fitted (basically a complete renewal of all suspension components).

Ned was really helpful in terms of drop off and collection times, all the work is spot on and the price seemed about right to me.

The main thing I came away with was the impression that he is absolutely passionate (and extremely knowledgeable) about GTA's , and I see that as a pretty good pointer that he'll look after any that come his way.

Either way - good luck with the 147 purchase, as has been said here already (and widely elsewhere), they get under your skin in a way that you really don't expect. I've had my 156 for 16 years now and it still makes me smile every time I get in and fire it up.

Edited by ian996 on Wednesday 25th August 21:24

[xyyman]

Too far away from Autolusso to use them so can't comment.

I do agree with ian966 that GTA's get under your skin. I've had my 147 for around ten years and absolutely adore it. They are not the quickest 'hot' hatches around, mind you they are fifteen plus years old, but are extremely capable especially with a Q2 LSD fitted. The character, and sound, of the V6 is unbeatable and whenever I drive it there's usually a ridiculous smile on my face which says it all.

If you get one I doubt you'll be disappointed caveats being to ensure the condition is tip top and evidence, receipts, for work carried out. That way you'll know what work has been done, or not, and also that the correct OEM parts have been used. I hear a lot complaining of unreliable Alfa's and, a fair bit of the time, it seems that parts have been replaced by cheap Chinese copies off eBay.