156 V6 cam belt change?

[maffman]

I own a 2002 Alfa 156 2.5 V6 which I am so far extremely happy with. It will shortly be due its 48000 mile service and I wondered whether to get the timing belt changed at the same time. I know its not due until 72000 miles but does the V6 suffer from the same risk of it snapping early as the T-spark cars? Does any one know what a change is likely to cost from a main dealer or independant?

[pdV6]

Not sure about the 156 2.5V6, but the sensible money wrt the 3.0V6 in the GTV is 60k/5years, despite AR's assurances that 72k/5y is fine.

The 2.0TS engine is now supposed to be on a 36k/5y schedule.

FWIW, I'd be tempted to leave it until next year's service (assuming you're within 48k now and will be within 60k next year) but if you're worried and have the cash available, it can't hurt to sort it right away.

[maffman]

Thanks for the reply pdv6, I think I probably will leave it until the 5 year / 60,000 mile service. Its actually only done 43000 (with full main dealer history) but for some reason the original owner has had it serviced around 5000 miles early each time!

[wombat rick]

maffman said:

the original owner has had it serviced around 5000 miles early each time!

The services are every 12 months OR 12,000 miles - whichever comes first.
Has he had them done at a similar time each year?

[jacobyte]

Maffman

At 47,000 miles I booked my 147 in for its 48,000 mile service. Even though the handbook says 72,000 miles, I thought I would be cautious by including a belt change.

The belt snapped before the service.

I recommend changing it.

[pdV6]

Which engine, James?

[jacobyte]

2.0

I got the car new in 2001, did about 12K a year with proper dealer services at the correct times. It has always been totally reliable (and still is), except for the cambelt going at 47K.

The handbook says 72K, and despite the previous service saying the cambelt looked fine (it is inspected as part of the 36k service), the car was out of its 3-yr warrantly period, so my dealer and also Alfa GB were not interested in stumping up. But that's another story.

Edited to say it was the tensioner that seized, causing the ensuing cambelt damage.

>> Edited by jacobyte on Monday 30th January 14:25

[pwig]

pdV6 said:

The 2.0TS engine is now supposed to be on a 36k/5y schedule.

Wrong.

It's 72k or 6 years.


There is a visual check on 36k. So it's cheaper to get it done on 36k than it is at 48k by 1 hours labour.

There is no inspection on the V6. It is very, very, very rare for an early snappage on a v6. I can only remember one, and that was on a 147GTA, less than 3 years old and less than 36k miles, don't know what caused it.

[pdV6]

pwig said:

pdV6 said: The 2.0TS engine is now supposed to be on a 36k/5y schedule. Wrong. It's 72k or 6 years. There is a visual check on 36k. So it's cheaper to get it done on 36k than it is at 48k by 1 hours labour. There is no inspection on the V6. It is very, very, very rare for an early snappage on a v6. I can only remember one, and that was on a 147GTA, less than 3 years old and less than 36k miles, don't know what caused it.

Sorry Pwiggers, but you're the one in the wrong this time.
Yes, the handbooks all say 72k/5y for 2.0TS and 3.0/3.2V6, but the official advice from most *other* AR dealerships is 36k/5y for 2.0TS and 72k/5y for the V6. Unofficial advice from (again, most other) dealerships is to revise the V6 down to 60k/5y. This is echoed by the specialists, who arguably see many more (GTVs at least) of this age / mileage.

I personally know of several people who have suffered cambelt / tensioner woe well before the published guidelines.

Also, I've said it before and will say it again: what use is a visual inspection of a cambelt? You can look at it for hours, but unless there's fraying etc as a telltale, one that's about to go will look exactly the same as a pretty fresh one. As a cambelt job is pretty much all labour cost anyway, you may as well swap the actual belt over once you've got as far as tearing it all apart to "inspect" it.

As a test, would your place stump up for a new engine if you had "visually inspected" a 36k cambelt and it let go 2 weeks later? If the answer's "no", then I simply can't accept that the inspection was even worth doing in the 1st place...



P.S. I hope the "6 years" in your post was simply a typo, as otherwise that's longer than the original published schedule and asking for big trouble!

[slapmatt]

My 2.5 V6 is 5-years old, has done 44k and is going in for a 60k/5-year service and cambelt change today. Alfa main dealer quoted £800ish, whilst a local independent quoted £550 plus the cost of the service.

I'll report back in a couple of days with the total cost!

[k50 del]

I ran a 2.5 V6 156 as a company hack for 6 months, the fleet company authorised the cam belt change at 48,000 so I assumed it was a known weakness.

[pwig]

pdV6 said:

pwig said: pdV6 said: The 2.0TS engine is now supposed to be on a 36k/5y schedule. Wrong. It's 72k or 6 years. There is a visual check on 36k. So it's cheaper to get it done on 36k than it is at 48k by 1 hours labour. There is no inspection on the V6. It is very, very, very rare for an early snappage on a v6. I can only remember one, and that was on a 147GTA, less than 3 years old and less than 36k miles, don't know what caused it. Sorry Pwiggers, but you're the one in the wrong this time. Yes, the handbooks all say 72k/5y for 2.0TS and 3.0/3.2V6, but the official advice from most *other* AR dealerships is 36k/5y for 2.0TS and 72k/5y for the V6. Unofficial advice from (again, most other) dealerships is to revise the V6 down to 60k/5y. This is echoed by the specialists, who arguably see many more (GTVs at least) of this age / mileage. I personally know of several people who have suffered cambelt / tensioner woe well before the published guidelines. Also, I've said it before and will say it again: what use is a visual inspection of a cambelt? You can look at it for hours, but unless there's fraying etc as a telltale, one that's about to go will look exactly the same as a pretty fresh one. As a cambelt job is pretty much all labour cost anyway, you may as well swap the actual belt over once you've got as far as tearing it all apart to "inspect" it. As a test, would your place stump up for a new engine if you had "visually inspected" a 36k cambelt and it let go 2 weeks later? If the answer's "no", then I simply can't accept that the inspection was even worth doing in the 1st place... P.S. I hope the "6 years" in your post was simply a typo, as otherwise that's longer than the original published schedule and asking for big trouble!

We reccomend to change after 3 or 4 years.

Doesn't mean it's offical from Alfa though.

[pwig]

I mean 6 years old.

If we inspected it, and said it was fine, and it snaps a few weeks later, then yes, it is the dealers responsibility.

[pdV6]

pwig said:

I mean 6 years old. If we inspected it, and said it was fine, and it snaps a few weeks later, then yes, it is the dealers responsibility.

So, no joy after "a few weeks" but within the net 12,000 miles or 1 year (whichever is sooner). Not a lot of comfort to the poor sap that takes your recommendation, then, is it?

Sorry to bang on about this, but its a personal bugbear of mine - visually inspecting a cambelt is a ing waste of time. If you're going to bother, just go the extra mile and change the damn thing anyway.

[pwig]

I said a few weeks as that is the example you used.

Techincally it should be the dealers responsibility right up to 6 years and 72k.

[pdV6]

pwig said:

I said a few weeks as that is the example you used. Techincally it should be the dealers responsibility right up to 6 years and 72k.

Furry muff.

However, I seriously doubt that would be the case in practice. Can you think of an example where a customer with a fully serviced car had a cambelt failure that you guys stumped up for? I could easily point to many examples where the opposite occured.

[pwig]

Alfa normally stump up for it.

And that's all I am saying on the matter before I get myself sacked

[GTV Cup]

I changed mine at 48k as as it's not worth the risk. Get the water pump done at the same time too. All in it cost £877 with the service.

[CH1]

I can't comment about the V6, but when I had a twin spark (146 Ti) the cambelt snapped days before the car was due to be booked in for the 72K service. At that time (2002) it cost me about 500 quid at a main AR dealer (who were a rather a poor dealership (that have thankfully shut down last year). As the cambelt snapped, it meant I needed a new cylinder head (which was to cost £1000) fortunately after endless negioting with AR HQ I got them not to charge for the cylnder head as according to the service manual at that time cambelt should need doing at 72k, so AR should guarantee it before then if a car has been serviced and maintained throughout (especially at AR dealer! You can read about the saga here especially if you have the older ts engines www.ciao.co.uk/Alfa_146_2_0_Ti__Review_5083069

No wonder AR's depreciate so much it can cost hundreds or even thousands to fix them and the insurance is much more for older AR's (with just 150bhp) than newer cars ovr 180bhp (in my experience anyway).CH

>> Edited by CH1 on Friday 3rd February 09:37

[Daaaveee]

[quote=GTV Cup]I changed mine at 48k as as it's not worth the risk.[quote]

certainly not worth the risk.

with the 2.0 TS, i've heard way too many horror stories of 1-2k repair bill because of the belt/tensioner failure at 40 something thousand miles. 36k is the recommended change interval with this engine.

Dave