Why do the British press hate Alfa's?
Discussion
First I'd like to say a big thanks to the British press for being so negative about Alfa's. If it wasn't for their brainless, baseless, BS comments, I wouldn't have been able to pick up a "mint" 05 156 sportwagon with 4600 miles on the clock for £12400 today.
Looking back at a 05 copy of autocar, the list price without extras was £20k, they described the car as "Not much practicality, but beautiful".
I ask myself, how is it not vary practical? We are continually told how Alfa's breakdown or fall apart. I've had a 3.0 GTV sine new (51plate) and its never missed a beat and as yet, nothing has fallen off. My father has had a 156 since new on a "R", again, never left him stranded and nothing fallen off. Conversely, a close friend of mine has had a string of BMW's, Merc's and mini, all off which have had various visits to the dealer ranging from brakes locked on to blown turbo's.
Funny how a clapped out 3 series stinking of fags with 50k on the clock still fetches £12k, so a big thanks to the UK motoring press for brain washing the lemmings.
Looking back at a 05 copy of autocar, the list price without extras was £20k, they described the car as "Not much practicality, but beautiful".
I ask myself, how is it not vary practical? We are continually told how Alfa's breakdown or fall apart. I've had a 3.0 GTV sine new (51plate) and its never missed a beat and as yet, nothing has fallen off. My father has had a 156 since new on a "R", again, never left him stranded and nothing fallen off. Conversely, a close friend of mine has had a string of BMW's, Merc's and mini, all off which have had various visits to the dealer ranging from brakes locked on to blown turbo's.
Funny how a clapped out 3 series stinking of fags with 50k on the clock still fetches £12k, so a big thanks to the UK motoring press for brain washing the lemmings.
sjn2004 said:
First I'd like to say a big thanks to the British press for being so negative about Alfa's. If it wasn't for their brainless, baseless, BS comments, I wouldn't have been able to pick up a "mint" 05 156 sportwagon with 4600 miles on the clock for £12400 today.
Looking back at a 05 copy of autocar, the list price without extras was £20k, they described the car as "Not much practicality, but beautiful".
I ask myself, how is it not vary practical? We are continually told how Alfa's breakdown or fall apart. I've had a 3.0 GTV sine new (51plate) and its never missed a beat and as yet, nothing has fallen off. My father has had a 156 since new on a "R", again, never left him stranded and nothing fallen off. Conversely, a close friend of mine has had a string of BMW's, Merc's and mini, all off which have had various visits to the dealer ranging from brakes locked on to blown turbo's.
Funny how a clapped out 3 series stinking of fags with 50k on the clock still fetches £12k, so a big thanks to the UK motoring press for brain washing the lemmings.
Looking back at a 05 copy of autocar, the list price without extras was £20k, they described the car as "Not much practicality, but beautiful".
I ask myself, how is it not vary practical? We are continually told how Alfa's breakdown or fall apart. I've had a 3.0 GTV sine new (51plate) and its never missed a beat and as yet, nothing has fallen off. My father has had a 156 since new on a "R", again, never left him stranded and nothing fallen off. Conversely, a close friend of mine has had a string of BMW's, Merc's and mini, all off which have had various visits to the dealer ranging from brakes locked on to blown turbo's.
Funny how a clapped out 3 series stinking of fags with 50k on the clock still fetches £12k, so a big thanks to the UK motoring press for brain washing the lemmings.
I'd say you've got it completely wrong. I've read the motoring press for about 30 years, both contempory, classic and motorsport based, and I'd say the Brit press has always been very kind to Alfa.
They used to rave about Alfasuds, despite their chronic unreliability and a tendency (as all Italian cars did at the time) to dissolve before your eyes. I recall Car magazine voted the 'sud the car of the decade for the 1970's, despite the rise of the VW Golf in the second half of that decade.
In my view Alfas have been much the same for years - they look gorgeous, they usually sound gorgeous, but they're rarely the best drive, have never been that well made, and have a diabolical dealership network - both in spread and attitude. The latest Brera is typical imo, in that it looks fabulous but otherwise is quite an ordinary car, and will hurt your pocket if you buy one.
If Alfas were great, and gave the market what its looking for, they wouldn't depreciate, its really as simple as that.
But I'd love a 105 Guilia. What a lovely classic for touring Europe.
I think your right really, most Journo's want modern Alfa's to be good, but find them a little too ordinary. They are still interesting and in my view more involving to drive than the majority of Franco/German/Jap barges, but you only have to read the road tests of Cars like the Guilia GT's to realise just how damn good they were for their day. In fact they are still damn good. (:
I do think some mags take it to extremes though, Autocar in particular is very hard on Alfa and What-Car can't see the point of them...... I can't see the point of What car though
I do think some mags take it to extremes though, Autocar in particular is very hard on Alfa and What-Car can't see the point of them...... I can't see the point of What car though
velocemitch said:
I think your right really, most Journo's want modern Alfa's to be good, but find them a little too ordinary. They are still interesting and in my view more involving to drive than the majority of Franco/German/Jap barges, but you only have to read the road tests of Cars like the Guilia GT's to realise just how damn good they were for their day. In fact they are still damn good. (:
I do think some mags take it to extremes though, Autocar in particular is very hard on Alfa and What-Car can't see the point of them...... I can't see the point of What car though
I do think some mags take it to extremes though, Autocar in particular is very hard on Alfa and What-Car can't see the point of them...... I can't see the point of What car though
That stupid "What Car" magazine used to say in the backpages that the GTV was based on a Fiat Tipo chassis.
I think sjn2004 has a point. The British mags are very pro German cars, every time they test an Audi they drone on about superb build quality and reliability, when in truth they are no better than the European average and the TT in particular is famously unreliable. When they test a Fiat or an Alfa they always seem to make snide comments about unreliability.
pooh said:
I think sjn2004 has a point. The British mags are very pro German cars, every time they test an Audi they drone on about superb build quality and reliability, when in truth they are no better than the European average and the TT in particular is famously unreliable. When they test a Fiat or an Alfa they always seem to make snide comments about unreliability.
Can you imagine the fuss they would have made if Alfa's had spun off the road when braking hard and killed the occupants? They soon forget about the TT didn't they, lets not forget the A class and the Elk test.
sjn2004 said:
That stupid "What Car" magazine used to say in the backpages that the GTV was based on a Fiat Tipo chassis.
Umm, not sure if you're kidding, but it was. Loads of cars were spun off the Tipo Due platform, including the Fiat Tipo, the Punto, the GTV, and many others. Obviously, there was a lot of re-work done to them, but they do share the same basic platform. How much of a platform you need to change before it becomes a different one is a valid question, though.jamieboy said:
sjn2004 said:
That stupid "What Car" magazine used to say in the backpages that the GTV was based on a Fiat Tipo chassis.
Umm, not sure if you're kidding, but it was. Loads of cars were spun off the Tipo Due platform, including the Fiat Tipo, the Punto, the GTV, and many others. Obviously, there was a lot of re-work done to them, but they do share the same basic platform. How much of a platform you need to change before it becomes a different one is a valid question, though.I seem to remember they said that it couldn't hide the fact it was based on a Fiat Tipo chassis.
I have number of pet theories on this one:
1) The advertising spend comment above is very valid - and the fact that sucking up to AR and getting as your best prize a Brera is probably not as rewarding as sucking up to BMW and getting to drive an M6 around the nurburgring at their expense...
2) The silly obsession (silly for a road car anyway) they have with on the limit track handling, and cars that "must" be RWD as a result. If, as someone who used to race a bit, successfully, I can enjoy my GTA on the road I can't see their point. Sure, I'd prefer it to be RWD, but we buy cars for a price we can afford and personally big V6, lovely looks, and great performance beats weedy 4-pot engine and a premium badge and RWD, at the same price point, every time. And that's new, SH Alfa prices are miles better, why compare, say, my GTA to a 330 sport when it cost 316i money, new? When I see one particular journalist on TV looking pleased with themselves saying "the 147GTA doesn't handle" or whatever, I get very annoyed since said journalist was 3 seconds a lap slower than yours truly in an identical car when we raced in the same series. If I can enjoy a decently set up FWD car, why can't they? In fact I'd go so far as to say I feel I'm "driving" a powerful FWD car, with the elctronic aids switched off, more than some 4WD cars I've had where you could just boot it everywhere on corner exit.
3) Alfas - like Audis - are not the best in the ride/handling balance stakes if you hammer up and down really bumpy B-roads all day at speeds you would not entertain on such roads if paying the bills yourself. Some mags - Autocar in particular - seem to rate this type of driving as the most important. Around my way most roads are smooth.
4) The reliability thing is out of hand - yes they suffer the odd niggles, but they seem to me to be on a par with the likes of Saab and others in terms of build and niggles, and the germans are not far ahead. Only the japs build notably more reliable cars these days. It annoys me that most of the cars on long term mags seem to suffer niggles, but Alfas always get hit with that assumption more than others.
5) For me the V6 Alfas are the ones that offer the really seminal driving experience for the money, but, probably due to a diet of supercars, mags tend not to rate engine characteristics and performance as highly as, say, B-road ride/handling balance. To me, these sorts of areas (and looks) are vital. Perhaps if I drover supercars all the time I'd become numb to it as well.
6) Testers seem to approach an Alfa looking for issues, and, say, a BMW looking to praise it. I'm not sure they can see past the 70's and 80's in some cases. Personally I find many modern BMW's hideous outside and in, think they are overpriced, and think that RWD is pretty pointless in a car with umpteen electronic safety nets that most owners never disable, a grippy modern chassis/tyres, loads of weight and thus for the top-selling 4-pot models a low bhp/tonne. Is it just me?
There are lots more besides, but that will do for now!
1) The advertising spend comment above is very valid - and the fact that sucking up to AR and getting as your best prize a Brera is probably not as rewarding as sucking up to BMW and getting to drive an M6 around the nurburgring at their expense...
2) The silly obsession (silly for a road car anyway) they have with on the limit track handling, and cars that "must" be RWD as a result. If, as someone who used to race a bit, successfully, I can enjoy my GTA on the road I can't see their point. Sure, I'd prefer it to be RWD, but we buy cars for a price we can afford and personally big V6, lovely looks, and great performance beats weedy 4-pot engine and a premium badge and RWD, at the same price point, every time. And that's new, SH Alfa prices are miles better, why compare, say, my GTA to a 330 sport when it cost 316i money, new? When I see one particular journalist on TV looking pleased with themselves saying "the 147GTA doesn't handle" or whatever, I get very annoyed since said journalist was 3 seconds a lap slower than yours truly in an identical car when we raced in the same series. If I can enjoy a decently set up FWD car, why can't they? In fact I'd go so far as to say I feel I'm "driving" a powerful FWD car, with the elctronic aids switched off, more than some 4WD cars I've had where you could just boot it everywhere on corner exit.
3) Alfas - like Audis - are not the best in the ride/handling balance stakes if you hammer up and down really bumpy B-roads all day at speeds you would not entertain on such roads if paying the bills yourself. Some mags - Autocar in particular - seem to rate this type of driving as the most important. Around my way most roads are smooth.
4) The reliability thing is out of hand - yes they suffer the odd niggles, but they seem to me to be on a par with the likes of Saab and others in terms of build and niggles, and the germans are not far ahead. Only the japs build notably more reliable cars these days. It annoys me that most of the cars on long term mags seem to suffer niggles, but Alfas always get hit with that assumption more than others.
5) For me the V6 Alfas are the ones that offer the really seminal driving experience for the money, but, probably due to a diet of supercars, mags tend not to rate engine characteristics and performance as highly as, say, B-road ride/handling balance. To me, these sorts of areas (and looks) are vital. Perhaps if I drover supercars all the time I'd become numb to it as well.
6) Testers seem to approach an Alfa looking for issues, and, say, a BMW looking to praise it. I'm not sure they can see past the 70's and 80's in some cases. Personally I find many modern BMW's hideous outside and in, think they are overpriced, and think that RWD is pretty pointless in a car with umpteen electronic safety nets that most owners never disable, a grippy modern chassis/tyres, loads of weight and thus for the top-selling 4-pot models a low bhp/tonne. Is it just me?
There are lots more besides, but that will do for now!
Edited by jwyatt on Monday 20th November 15:05
That was a well-timed rant above, last night's 5th gear review of the 159 was a perfect case in point - he approached the car with preconceptions (on of them being that they were FWD - he failed to mention the one he was driving was 4WD), said little or nothing about the drive, found a few tiny issues, then slagged it off!
jwyatt said:
That was a well-timed rant above, last night's 5th gear review of the 159 was a perfect case in point - he approached the car with preconceptions (on of them being that they were FWD - he failed to mention the one he was driving was 4WD), said little or nothing about the drive, found a few tiny issues, then slagged it off!
After he left the restaurant (about 3:30 in the clip on youtube) he explained which model he was in, and he mentions the fact that it's the four-wheel drive.
Tiff was approaching it with the same BMW-blinded preconceptions that many people in the market for this size / price of car will have, but I agree that it wasn't much of a review.
Edited by jamieboy on Tuesday 21st November 10:34
jamieboy said:
jwyatt said:
That was a well-timed rant above, last night's 5th gear review of the 159 was a perfect case in point - he approached the car with preconceptions (on of them being that they were FWD - he failed to mention the one he was driving was 4WD), said little or nothing about the drive, found a few tiny issues, then slagged it off!
After he left the restaurant (about 3:30 in the clip on youtube) he explained which model he was in, and he mentions the fact that it's the four-wheel drive.
Tiff was approaching it with the same BMW-blinded preconceptions that many people in the market for this size / price of car will have, but I agree that it wasn't much of a review.
Edited by jamieboy on Tuesday 21st November 10:34
Christ the sound is messed up on that!
pwig said:
The sportwagon isn't very practical in estate terms.
I'm not sure anyone has ever demonstrated it's much worse than other "lifestyle" estates like the Audi A4 and BMW 3-series.
Yes, it's not a very big estate, then it's not a very big car either (people seem to be obsessed by size these days; if you don't have a family of 5 to lug around surely it isn't that important).
As far as I can tell, it's at least as practical as most larger hatchbacks - more so, because the load area is longer so better for the IKEA run. Surely it's really designed for single people/couples who want to be able to fit in a reasonable amount of sports/camping/hobby equipment/dogs or go on an occasional trip to B&Q. For this it's fine.
For a family of up to 3 I would say it's plenty big enough. If you have a family of 5, pushchairs etc you obviously need a Volvo or an MPV, but why criticise a car just because it isn't this size? Smallness has its advantages. And they look nice.
PS Yes it does have a fault - it sould be nice if you could fold the passenger seat right forward, you could get longer stuff in then.
I find my Wagon an ideal size for my purposes, I managed to fit 8 15" wheels and tyres easily enough in it tonite, it's been extremely usefull on various long holidays including a fortnight in Provence. I admit I don't take the family out in it much, we usually use the boring old Vauxhall Meriva for that. Nope the 156 Sportwagon is spot on for size for me.... it helps having a 3.2V6 up front too......
OK, so Tiff Needal(sp) broke the clutch on the last Alfa and he's worried about being cool so he's buying a BMW. Funny he made such a big deal about the placement of the cig lighter but he wants a BMW with the DREADED iDrive!
Conversely, this German program found the 159 the best handling car in its class (inc new 3 series).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgTsO6fkZjo
Its in German, but you can understand the slalom results, only the Alfa didn't spill any cones.
Conversely, this German program found the 159 the best handling car in its class (inc new 3 series).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgTsO6fkZjo
Its in German, but you can understand the slalom results, only the Alfa didn't spill any cones.
I have been collecting GTA articles to keep them all together, you can read them all here.
http://alfaromeogta.createforum.net/v
Stu
http://alfaromeogta.createforum.net/v
Stu
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