147 GTA opinions
Discussion
Guys,
Wondering whether to free up a little cash in my current car situation and go for something sub 10k.
I love the idea of the GTA, especially now as their residuals seem to be settling down- buying one a couple of years ago was just so enticing, but the thought of paying 14k only for it to be worth half that after putting 50k on it scared the hell out of me...
Ive got the evo buying guide, been on the forum and searched on here, but generally they are an elusive little beast! So, anybody care to share their thoughts on this wild hot hatch?! Id be coming from a 290bhp focus ST so im used to torque steer! Anybody have an firm numbers for servicing? Ive seen one up for 9k but with 54k on it- its on an 03 plate so im guessing it needs or should have had the big service- what prices are we talking about and at what intervals?
As I say, i'll have the evo buying guide out again later, but for now, any well formed opinions welcome...
Wondering whether to free up a little cash in my current car situation and go for something sub 10k.
I love the idea of the GTA, especially now as their residuals seem to be settling down- buying one a couple of years ago was just so enticing, but the thought of paying 14k only for it to be worth half that after putting 50k on it scared the hell out of me...
Ive got the evo buying guide, been on the forum and searched on here, but generally they are an elusive little beast! So, anybody care to share their thoughts on this wild hot hatch?! Id be coming from a 290bhp focus ST so im used to torque steer! Anybody have an firm numbers for servicing? Ive seen one up for 9k but with 54k on it- its on an 03 plate so im guessing it needs or should have had the big service- what prices are we talking about and at what intervals?
As I say, i'll have the evo buying guide out again later, but for now, any well formed opinions welcome...
red_zed said:
Guys,
I love the idea of the GTA, especially now as their residuals seem to be settling down- buying one a couple of years ago was just so enticing, but the thought of paying 14k only for it to be worth half that after putting 50k on it scared the hell out of me...
Ive got the evo buying guide, been on the forum and searched on here, but generally they are an elusive little beast! So, anybody care to share their thoughts on this wild hot hatch?! Id be coming from a 290bhp focus ST so im used to torque steer! Anybody have an firm numbers for servicing? Ive seen one up for 9k but with 54k on it- its on an 03 plate so im guessing it needs or should have had the big service- what prices are we talking about and at what intervals?
That EVO article has a lot to answer for!I love the idea of the GTA, especially now as their residuals seem to be settling down- buying one a couple of years ago was just so enticing, but the thought of paying 14k only for it to be worth half that after putting 50k on it scared the hell out of me...
Ive got the evo buying guide, been on the forum and searched on here, but generally they are an elusive little beast! So, anybody care to share their thoughts on this wild hot hatch?! Id be coming from a 290bhp focus ST so im used to torque steer! Anybody have an firm numbers for servicing? Ive seen one up for 9k but with 54k on it- its on an 03 plate so im guessing it needs or should have had the big service- what prices are we talking about and at what intervals?
I was lucky that Mangos had a 147 and 156 GTA in, when I was looking. I tested them back to back and found the 147 to be lighter on its feet.
Dunno about the Ford, but they can drink, on a MWay it'll get early 30s.
I've got a 48K one coming up soon. Which I think I'll get the belts done at the same time. So I'm interested on costs here to.
I've done a track day and a couple of circuit days with mine. Stick to the Potenza tyres and you can get it on three wheels easy.
Asside from fuel, a set of tyres and screen wash, it hasn't cost anything else. In short it has been reliable, comfortable and makes the greatest sound. Though a more straight through pipe would be nice.
What is also fun, is that people think it is 1.6. So you get lots of people trying to blast past or burn you off. The look on Beemers, etc is great when they realise you're still there.
thanks for the steer Simon.
Can imagine what you mean about that EVO article- ive had a soft spot for the 147 since it came out but as I say, it was just that fear (same as any car though really) of the depreciation from new.
Im not overly worried about fuel- ive gotten used to average consumption, my last car being a 350z returning about 26mpg and my ST is currently the same- I have a motorway commute so this does help though.
LIke you, id be interseted to know more about actual service costs- I enquired about a car a couple of days ago that was on 54k and had just had a major service, but not a belt change- sounds like there is a difference of opinion on when this needs doing but if it were me, id be having it done about that time.
Good to hear that yours has stood upto a track day as im planning on doing one this year, plus a trip to the ring maybe in the summer.
Its a shame that there arent many around as ive never actually seen one in the fleash, or heard them on the move- if it sounds anywhere near as good as my zed did, then i fear i will be smitten...
Can imagine what you mean about that EVO article- ive had a soft spot for the 147 since it came out but as I say, it was just that fear (same as any car though really) of the depreciation from new.
Im not overly worried about fuel- ive gotten used to average consumption, my last car being a 350z returning about 26mpg and my ST is currently the same- I have a motorway commute so this does help though.
LIke you, id be interseted to know more about actual service costs- I enquired about a car a couple of days ago that was on 54k and had just had a major service, but not a belt change- sounds like there is a difference of opinion on when this needs doing but if it were me, id be having it done about that time.
Good to hear that yours has stood upto a track day as im planning on doing one this year, plus a trip to the ring maybe in the summer.
Its a shame that there arent many around as ive never actually seen one in the fleash, or heard them on the move- if it sounds anywhere near as good as my zed did, then i fear i will be smitten...
Great car, I test drove one a few years ago and was smitten! Black with black & tan leather, felt really charismatic to sit in, the engine is a joy to use and hear. Not too much steering feedback but that was my only major gripe. I'm considering one as my next purchase. Loads of Autodelta goodies you can put on as well. I think they still look great. Quite a rare car! If a lowish mileage white one with black & tan leather came up for sale near me I'd be extremely tempted!!
Looking on Auto Trader there is a white one for sale... Alas it looks like it has a black interior.
There are two private sales, both just under 10K, so you can meet your budget. Otherwise it is dealer time.
As for servicing costs, I found an http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_romeo_servicing.shtml that offers fixed price servicing, which should give us both an idea of costs. I guess you'd add a healthy percentage for a main dealer. I like the comment about the recommended V6 belt schedule.
Someone mentioned that they are rare, there is one being broken for spares on ebay, so there is one less on the road. Also someone was selling the interior from one, before Christmas, as they were turning it into a dedicated track car.
There are two private sales, both just under 10K, so you can meet your budget. Otherwise it is dealer time.
As for servicing costs, I found an http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_romeo_servicing.shtml that offers fixed price servicing, which should give us both an idea of costs. I guess you'd add a healthy percentage for a main dealer. I like the comment about the recommended V6 belt schedule.
Someone mentioned that they are rare, there is one being broken for spares on ebay, so there is one less on the road. Also someone was selling the interior from one, before Christmas, as they were turning it into a dedicated track car.
all apart from the cambelt change, those prices dont look too bad really. It def sounds like the general concensus is to change the belt earlier than reccomended though!
Its interseting that there is such a difference in prices for the gta, some being sub 10k, others being north of 12k
really do like the look of the white ones but i dont think a motorway commute would do it much good- its hard enough to keep a red car looking clean!
Its interseting that there is such a difference in prices for the gta, some being sub 10k, others being north of 12k
really do like the look of the white ones but i dont think a motorway commute would do it much good- its hard enough to keep a red car looking clean!
Hi all,
that was my car in EVO (the red 147)
Since the article, I've had the brakes upgraded to the 330mm and imho this is essential as they are a million times better!!!! (had a lengthly battle with Alfa UK which resulted in them picking up half the bill)
The next upgrade is the Q2 diff (LSD) which is a reto fit and since the part from Alfa is only £300 then I think it could be a relatively cheap upgrade given that I am lucky enough to have a brother (who wrote the technical info for the article) and father who are exceptional when it comes to fixing Alfa's!
It hasn't gone wrong in any way (*runs off to touch wood!!) although it did need the front antiroll bar and lower suspension arm replacing after I bought it.
It's had a service too which wasn't too expensive in comparison to the other Alfa's I've had in the past.
I know I complained about the fuel consumption in the article, however driven sensibly it's currently returning 26mpg+ which includes short trips to work and a lot of town driving.
Have considered parting with it, but I just know I would kick myself as i absolutely love it.
Just a quick note on the Cambelt, we know of a couple of instances where the belt has failed around the 44-50k miles mark, the guidance from Alfa is 60k.
One theory is that the different profile of the cams on the GTA puts additional stress on the belt and tensioners.
This can cause the tensioners to bend/fail resulting in the belt rubbing against the cover.
Mine was changed @ 44k before I bought it and I will be changing it around at around 80k miles or next year, as I doubt i'll reach that kind of milage (currently on 52k)
Cambelt change is £600 and requires special camlocks that are specific to the GTA - def a specialist job!
that was my car in EVO (the red 147)
Since the article, I've had the brakes upgraded to the 330mm and imho this is essential as they are a million times better!!!! (had a lengthly battle with Alfa UK which resulted in them picking up half the bill)
The next upgrade is the Q2 diff (LSD) which is a reto fit and since the part from Alfa is only £300 then I think it could be a relatively cheap upgrade given that I am lucky enough to have a brother (who wrote the technical info for the article) and father who are exceptional when it comes to fixing Alfa's!
It hasn't gone wrong in any way (*runs off to touch wood!!) although it did need the front antiroll bar and lower suspension arm replacing after I bought it.
It's had a service too which wasn't too expensive in comparison to the other Alfa's I've had in the past.
I know I complained about the fuel consumption in the article, however driven sensibly it's currently returning 26mpg+ which includes short trips to work and a lot of town driving.
Have considered parting with it, but I just know I would kick myself as i absolutely love it.
Just a quick note on the Cambelt, we know of a couple of instances where the belt has failed around the 44-50k miles mark, the guidance from Alfa is 60k.
One theory is that the different profile of the cams on the GTA puts additional stress on the belt and tensioners.
This can cause the tensioners to bend/fail resulting in the belt rubbing against the cover.
Mine was changed @ 44k before I bought it and I will be changing it around at around 80k miles or next year, as I doubt i'll reach that kind of milage (currently on 52k)
Cambelt change is £600 and requires special camlocks that are specific to the GTA - def a specialist job!
Edited by Shoeless on Wednesday 30th January 14:19
Edited by Shoeless on Wednesday 30th January 14:23
Hi Andy!
thats a very shiny GTA you got there!
the EVO article was very good and as has been said, its unearthed a lot of potential buyers for what i think is a pretty elusive car- its always kinda gone about its business quietly i think, but has always appealed to me.
I think one of the problems with the cambelt "myth" is that different owners will take a different stance come sale time. For example, ive seen a couple that are around the 50k mark which have had a major service but not the belt changed. As the book says its not needed until 72k, the seller quite rightly can e quite firm on their price, whereas the buyer needs to compensate for the immenent belt change in their budget!
Obviously there is the hope that one will find a car thats had the belt changed early though! lol!
thats a very shiny GTA you got there!
the EVO article was very good and as has been said, its unearthed a lot of potential buyers for what i think is a pretty elusive car- its always kinda gone about its business quietly i think, but has always appealed to me.
I think one of the problems with the cambelt "myth" is that different owners will take a different stance come sale time. For example, ive seen a couple that are around the 50k mark which have had a major service but not the belt changed. As the book says its not needed until 72k, the seller quite rightly can e quite firm on their price, whereas the buyer needs to compensate for the immenent belt change in their budget!
Obviously there is the hope that one will find a car thats had the belt changed early though! lol!
LOL - thanks, it's even more shiney after I discovered detailing world and had the paint corrected on it :-)
Here's what happens when the cambelt fails:
http://forum.alfa156.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID...
Not my car I might add!!!!
I think that you shouldn't worry about the cambelt issue too much, you're looking at £550 to have it replaced (including the metal water pump) so it's a big bill, yes, but finding the best car you can that's been well looked after will pay dividends
as already said - the brakes are an important factor, the upgrade cost £1300 (dealer prices, parts alone are £800) so I'd def rather have the bigger brakes and no cambelt change than vice versa
but all of that fades away with the noise that V6 makes.....very special!
Here's what happens when the cambelt fails:
http://forum.alfa156.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID...
Not my car I might add!!!!
I think that you shouldn't worry about the cambelt issue too much, you're looking at £550 to have it replaced (including the metal water pump) so it's a big bill, yes, but finding the best car you can that's been well looked after will pay dividends
as already said - the brakes are an important factor, the upgrade cost £1300 (dealer prices, parts alone are £800) so I'd def rather have the bigger brakes and no cambelt change than vice versa
but all of that fades away with the noise that V6 makes.....very special!
red_zed said:
what sort of problems you had with yours then jack?
Was afraid you might ask that!So far, the power steerings failed (6 weeks off the road), the brakes have failed (!), the radiators been replaced, as has the windscreen, as has the front anti roll bars (listen for knocking if you test drive).
Apart from that, I've not had any problems! To be fair, the radiator and windscreen problems could happen to any car, I've just been unlucky.
Still love it though!
Go for it.
I have had mine for about 3 years now and love it.
Not much more to add that hasn't been discussed before, apart from to say have a think about changing the exhaust. I have a Ragazzon which sounds great.
Not too sure how good the ones under £10k will be though, you may want to think about extending your budget a little bit.
I have had mine for about 3 years now and love it.
Not much more to add that hasn't been discussed before, apart from to say have a think about changing the exhaust. I have a Ragazzon which sounds great.
Not too sure how good the ones under £10k will be though, you may want to think about extending your budget a little bit.
Excellent! There are some great sound clips on youtube of the csc exhaust which you can listen to to whet your appetite.
At the same time as I got my exhaust I also got the Autodelta air filter. It wasn't particularly expensive and the car pulls better at low speeds in high gears. Not sure how much is attributable to the exhaust though.
http://www.autodeltashop.com/product_info.php?cPat...
At the same time as I got my exhaust I also got the Autodelta air filter. It wasn't particularly expensive and the car pulls better at low speeds in high gears. Not sure how much is attributable to the exhaust though.
http://www.autodeltashop.com/product_info.php?cPat...
Hi. It was me who helped Roger Green but together the tech stuff. Basically this is what I sent to Evo for their Buyers Guide. I'm not saying its definative or indeed 100% correct. More like my opinion of the Cars. Its biased towards the GTA but most of what’s said here could apply to 156 V6’s too.
[U]Bonnet Catches. (147's and 156's) [/U]
This should be a familiar topic, but given its importance and potential to cause an accident I placed it at the top of my list.
The release mechanism is greased from new and picks up road dirt and all sorts of other gunk. It eventually gets to the point were only the secondary latch engages as the primary catch is gummed up. The end result is that the bonnet, usually on the motorway, flips and smashes into the screen and roof. Very scary and not that uncommon.
Alfa have issued several recalls for this problem, their most common solution is to degrease, clean and refit an existing mechanism. Some catches have been replaced. Later model 147's have a plastic catch instead of a steel one which seems to have eased the problem but not entirely solved it.
The bottom line is you need to drop the bonnet shut and give the leading edge a firm tug to ensure its shut properly. They also need regular doses of wd40. I wouldn’t recommend the use of white grease in this location.
Also, when buying look from damage to the roof, if it has had a bonnet flip its not uncommon for the roof to have been repair rather than replaced which means bubbling above the windscreen, ripples in the roof etc and a high possibility of water ingress around the screen which makes the car smell.
[U]Engine [/U]
Water Pump. Like nearly every other V6 they have a plastic impellor. They split over time radially and eventually fail. They're driven off the aux belt but replacement requires the cam belt to be removed. So you're into a cambelt, tensioner and two idler pullies as well as its an expensive job in terms of labour. The 3.0 GTV pump has a metal impellor and solves this issue. There are no compatability issues with this. I have found that if you use a pattern pump, the cambelt tensioing tool will not fit on them......crow bar......
Cam belt replacent requires CNC'd cam locks that are unique to the GTA engine - different inlet cam profile and the exhust cam is timed slightly different. They're not plenty-full and I suspect a dodgy indie will try to use standard locks as they nearly fit, that or tipp-ex marks.
MAF - Like every other 156 and 147, air flow meters should be considered a consumable item. They last around 70k miles. Its unique to the GTA and as a result slightly more expensive. Symptoms include flat spots, rough running, poor idleing etc. Brings the engine fault light on and sometimes the car won’t run with the maf connected.
Oil filter. Its a right pain to get at on the 156 v6. Its buried at the back of the engine above the power steering pipes and subframe. Its horrible to get at. The GTA is EVEN worse!!!! Instead of a heat exchanger (coolant / oil) the GTA has an oil cooler mounted on the offside. The pipes are routed under the engine with the P/S pump pipes. God knows how you're supposed to get it out..... And that's the problem. There are more and more 156 v6's appearing with blown engines. Not because they've been run dry of oil or been neglected but because they haven't had their filters changed and they've spun a main bearing. Clack Clack Clack.....
Alfa T-sparks have a growing reputation for being somewhat fragile. IMHO Its because the use copious amounts of oil and nobody ever checks the level. The V6's, GTA's included do use oil particularly if you give them a spanking but they're nothing like as bad. Mine's use a litre in around 3k miles.
Selenia 10w60 is the recommended brew. Its available from stealers @ around £60/5l or on line for half that. At the time of writing Alternative Autos, one of the forum sponsors were selling it for £32+vat. Bargain.
Coolant temp - too low / too high - thermostat. Lots of 156's and 147's running around with cooling issues but they tend to be older models with crumbling radiators. GTA’s are no exception. They getting old enough now.
Fluctuating Idle problems - likely to be a MAF problem or in need of an Throttle / ECU reset:
Battery off 15min, back on, ignition on 2min off, start, idle 15 min, off, italian tune up.
Other than that they really are bullet proof and relish a thrape.
[U]Exhaust[/U]
Nothing to report really. Euro 3 compliant - so 4 cats and lambdas. replacing the rear bank primary lambda's supposed to be very awkward but I think they're reliable. Makes a nice noise.
[U]Gearbox / Clutch[/U]
Hmmmm. 6 speed V6 box. Different ratios to the 156 V6 box. According to the Eper the diff is the same, but the sun gears have been beefed up. Doesn't seem to have helped things though.
[quote]“And to quote another engineer, "it's not a matter of if, but when it will break." Or to be very definite: "The problem is related to a stress concentration factor at the rear and front of the pinion bevel gear tooth. The von-misess stress at 50% throttle is around 900 MPa (about three times the yield strength of the material)"
[/quote]
I’m not going to even pretend I understand that. I do know that diffs are failing – they spit there internals out through the gearbox casing more often in hot climates, Australia for instance. But it does happen here as well. I think Alfa know they have an issue as the undertray features a NACA style duct feeding air directly to the diff casing. I’m pretty sure the undertray is unique to the GTA. Following some heated discussion on AO, I think we all agreed that the diff internals aren’t strong enough. Some were questioning whether the traction control helps things, arguing that is could put some additional shock loading thought the diff.
The good news is that the Q2 torque biasing diff is a straight swap and costs less than £250 direct from Alfa(BARGAIN!!!!) How long it stays at this price is another issue. They’re on back order but AHM (Adie Hawkins) has them on the shelf apparently. I personally missed the boat and have a Quaife diff in mine. It’s a bit unruly. EVO claimed that its stronger than the standard diff but I think its yet to be proven.
Clutch release bearings are a weak point. Possibly identified by a creaking noise. They do get very heavy towards the end of their life. The slave cylinders are also a bit of a problem. The seals go and they start leaking hydraulic fluid. A leak down the front of the gearbox is almost certainly brake fluid (they use the same reservoir) from the slave cylinder. Its cheap and easy to fix though.
Clutch replacement requires removal of the front subframe and therefore a lot of the front suspension as well as the rear exhaust manifold. Massive job.
They did do a selespeed version. I think about 5 have been imported into the UK. With a 6 speed box rather than the usual sele 5 speed box, I’d avoid them like the plague. Selespeed – Italian for HOW MUCH!!!!?
[U]Electrics[/U]
Not sure about if this has been solved with the facelift dash etc that went in the GTA but 156’s have an air bag lead to the front seats, if it gets dislodged it switches the air bag light on and even if you re-connect it, it remains lit necessitating a trip to the stealers for a reset.
MAF’s have been covered.
Crank sensors fail occasionally. Engine dies when it gets up to temp and refuses to restart until its cooled down. Simple and cheap to fix.
147’s use a system were everything is controlled by computers dotted around the car. AFAIK the computers themselves are reliable. Random electrical faults relating to windows not working etc are more than likely due to a duff battery. Even if the engine starts okay an elderly battery can play havoc with the system.
[U]Suspension[/U]
The front lower arm suspension bushes are made out of chocolate. They are a right pain to replace. The double wishbone set up gets in the way. Around £80 – £120 for a new one. I’ve found the best way to change them is to undo the hub nut. Please note a new nut will be required.
The upper wishbones aren’t much better and even worse to replace. About £40 to buy – Alternative Auto’s are again the cheapest source I’ve found.
The rear traverse links wear but it shouldn’t be an issue at this age. The inner mounts are eccentric so it will need tracking after replacement. They’re cheap enough though £20 – £40.
Front Anti Roll Bar. The bushes wear and allow the roll bar to slide from side to side. It makes a hell of a racket. Completely random knocking from the front suspension? Roll bar. About £120 in parts and 3 hours labour – the subframe has to be removed again.
I think Alfa’s claim about quicker steering (Something like 2.2 turns down to 1.8) is somewhat misleading. It is quicker, but they had to further limit its lock (its laughable) to fit bigger wheels.
No known problems with dampers or springs, they’re a bit wobbly when new!
The front uprights (hub carriers) are unique to the GTA. Aside from the brake caliper mount spacing, I reckon they give around 1 degree less negative camber. Probably due to the lower ride height.
[U]Brakes[/U]
Up until November 2003, all 156’s and 147 GTA’s left the factory with 305mm front discs and 4 pot LUG MOUNTED brembo calipers.
There’s been all sorts of endless twaddle said about the 305’s, possibly a bad batch of calipers, according to some people, But the top and bottom of it is the 305 set up is prone to warping discs IMHO
Post november 2003, GTA’s were fitted with much more manly 330mm discs and radially mounted brake calipers allegedly from the back of an F360.
They use a more readily available brake pad size, shared with a Mitsi Evo 6 if I recall correctly. Either way Ferrodo DS2500’s are available in this flavour pad.
Alfa have offered a warranty up-grade somewhat reluctantly to some 305 equipped cars, it depended on the service manager and a proven history or brake problems, so its hit and mis as to what’s got what.
In their wisdom alfa said that the 330mm brakes would not fit behind the older softer looking multispoke alloys, only the teledials, and changed the design of the multi spokes to fit. They could have changed the design of the bolts holding the caliper on and got them to fit but hey ho…. So if the car has the older multispokes, 330’s won’t fit.
Hand brake cables seize but not at this age. Not worth worrying about.
Also brake pipe corrosion is known to be a problem on very early 156s. See David C’s sticky thread in the tech lounge/
WHEELS / TYRES
There allegedly was a 16” wheel option but I’ve never seen it.
All 225/45/17
Older Multi spokes (softer looking) 147 / 156
Teledials 147 / 156
Later Multi spokes (Shaper edges – fit over 330 brakes) 147 / 156
Teledials are prone to being kerbed and like most alloys, the rear wheels get a hard time from stones flung at them from the front wheels. This chips the laquer, allows watter to get in and causes bubling.
Then I believe they started offering the gorgeous 18” jet fin style GTA wheels off the GT on the very last 147’s.
[U]Miscellaneous[/U]
Both cars have unique wings and quarter panels as well as bumpers, body kit etc.... I'm sure you knew that.
No rubbing strips so look for parking dings.
Red cars......Rosso 130.......They're a bit of a headache in my opinion. Look fantastic but the paint fades to pink and it doesn't fade evenly. Plastic panels fade a different colour, probably due to the plasticiser in the paint, but either way pink cars cannot be polished back to red because Alfa in their infinite wisdom, lacquered them. The only cure is a full body re-spray.
The legs supporting the lower trailing edge of the bumpers:
They are the only known rust point but they are cheap and easy to replace. Its becoming an issue on pre 2000 cars. Shouldn't really be an issue with GTA's.
Sumps / Undertrays - The GTA is better than the rest of the range (in that its more stiffly suspended) but in un-caring hands it could have had its sump and undertray spanked on the tarmac, speed cushions...
Oiled Air Filters - The aftermarket K&N kind are not recommended. They are widely regarded as being detrimental to the life expectancy of the Air flow meter.
Spark Plugs - As you'd expect are a pain to get at on the rear bank. would recommend they are replaced with cambelt.
Cambelts - I did a quick bit of research on the forums and found 2 GTA cam belt failures, one at 59k and one at 49k.
I mostly lurk on http://forum.alfa156.net/forum if you have any questions.
[U]Bonnet Catches. (147's and 156's) [/U]
This should be a familiar topic, but given its importance and potential to cause an accident I placed it at the top of my list.
The release mechanism is greased from new and picks up road dirt and all sorts of other gunk. It eventually gets to the point were only the secondary latch engages as the primary catch is gummed up. The end result is that the bonnet, usually on the motorway, flips and smashes into the screen and roof. Very scary and not that uncommon.
Alfa have issued several recalls for this problem, their most common solution is to degrease, clean and refit an existing mechanism. Some catches have been replaced. Later model 147's have a plastic catch instead of a steel one which seems to have eased the problem but not entirely solved it.
The bottom line is you need to drop the bonnet shut and give the leading edge a firm tug to ensure its shut properly. They also need regular doses of wd40. I wouldn’t recommend the use of white grease in this location.
Also, when buying look from damage to the roof, if it has had a bonnet flip its not uncommon for the roof to have been repair rather than replaced which means bubbling above the windscreen, ripples in the roof etc and a high possibility of water ingress around the screen which makes the car smell.
[U]Engine [/U]
Water Pump. Like nearly every other V6 they have a plastic impellor. They split over time radially and eventually fail. They're driven off the aux belt but replacement requires the cam belt to be removed. So you're into a cambelt, tensioner and two idler pullies as well as its an expensive job in terms of labour. The 3.0 GTV pump has a metal impellor and solves this issue. There are no compatability issues with this. I have found that if you use a pattern pump, the cambelt tensioing tool will not fit on them......crow bar......
Cam belt replacent requires CNC'd cam locks that are unique to the GTA engine - different inlet cam profile and the exhust cam is timed slightly different. They're not plenty-full and I suspect a dodgy indie will try to use standard locks as they nearly fit, that or tipp-ex marks.
MAF - Like every other 156 and 147, air flow meters should be considered a consumable item. They last around 70k miles. Its unique to the GTA and as a result slightly more expensive. Symptoms include flat spots, rough running, poor idleing etc. Brings the engine fault light on and sometimes the car won’t run with the maf connected.
Oil filter. Its a right pain to get at on the 156 v6. Its buried at the back of the engine above the power steering pipes and subframe. Its horrible to get at. The GTA is EVEN worse!!!! Instead of a heat exchanger (coolant / oil) the GTA has an oil cooler mounted on the offside. The pipes are routed under the engine with the P/S pump pipes. God knows how you're supposed to get it out..... And that's the problem. There are more and more 156 v6's appearing with blown engines. Not because they've been run dry of oil or been neglected but because they haven't had their filters changed and they've spun a main bearing. Clack Clack Clack.....
Alfa T-sparks have a growing reputation for being somewhat fragile. IMHO Its because the use copious amounts of oil and nobody ever checks the level. The V6's, GTA's included do use oil particularly if you give them a spanking but they're nothing like as bad. Mine's use a litre in around 3k miles.
Selenia 10w60 is the recommended brew. Its available from stealers @ around £60/5l or on line for half that. At the time of writing Alternative Autos, one of the forum sponsors were selling it for £32+vat. Bargain.
Coolant temp - too low / too high - thermostat. Lots of 156's and 147's running around with cooling issues but they tend to be older models with crumbling radiators. GTA’s are no exception. They getting old enough now.
Fluctuating Idle problems - likely to be a MAF problem or in need of an Throttle / ECU reset:
Battery off 15min, back on, ignition on 2min off, start, idle 15 min, off, italian tune up.
Other than that they really are bullet proof and relish a thrape.
[U]Exhaust[/U]
Nothing to report really. Euro 3 compliant - so 4 cats and lambdas. replacing the rear bank primary lambda's supposed to be very awkward but I think they're reliable. Makes a nice noise.
[U]Gearbox / Clutch[/U]
Hmmmm. 6 speed V6 box. Different ratios to the 156 V6 box. According to the Eper the diff is the same, but the sun gears have been beefed up. Doesn't seem to have helped things though.
[quote]“And to quote another engineer, "it's not a matter of if, but when it will break." Or to be very definite: "The problem is related to a stress concentration factor at the rear and front of the pinion bevel gear tooth. The von-misess stress at 50% throttle is around 900 MPa (about three times the yield strength of the material)"
[/quote]
I’m not going to even pretend I understand that. I do know that diffs are failing – they spit there internals out through the gearbox casing more often in hot climates, Australia for instance. But it does happen here as well. I think Alfa know they have an issue as the undertray features a NACA style duct feeding air directly to the diff casing. I’m pretty sure the undertray is unique to the GTA. Following some heated discussion on AO, I think we all agreed that the diff internals aren’t strong enough. Some were questioning whether the traction control helps things, arguing that is could put some additional shock loading thought the diff.
The good news is that the Q2 torque biasing diff is a straight swap and costs less than £250 direct from Alfa(BARGAIN!!!!) How long it stays at this price is another issue. They’re on back order but AHM (Adie Hawkins) has them on the shelf apparently. I personally missed the boat and have a Quaife diff in mine. It’s a bit unruly. EVO claimed that its stronger than the standard diff but I think its yet to be proven.
Clutch release bearings are a weak point. Possibly identified by a creaking noise. They do get very heavy towards the end of their life. The slave cylinders are also a bit of a problem. The seals go and they start leaking hydraulic fluid. A leak down the front of the gearbox is almost certainly brake fluid (they use the same reservoir) from the slave cylinder. Its cheap and easy to fix though.
Clutch replacement requires removal of the front subframe and therefore a lot of the front suspension as well as the rear exhaust manifold. Massive job.
They did do a selespeed version. I think about 5 have been imported into the UK. With a 6 speed box rather than the usual sele 5 speed box, I’d avoid them like the plague. Selespeed – Italian for HOW MUCH!!!!?
[U]Electrics[/U]
Not sure about if this has been solved with the facelift dash etc that went in the GTA but 156’s have an air bag lead to the front seats, if it gets dislodged it switches the air bag light on and even if you re-connect it, it remains lit necessitating a trip to the stealers for a reset.
MAF’s have been covered.
Crank sensors fail occasionally. Engine dies when it gets up to temp and refuses to restart until its cooled down. Simple and cheap to fix.
147’s use a system were everything is controlled by computers dotted around the car. AFAIK the computers themselves are reliable. Random electrical faults relating to windows not working etc are more than likely due to a duff battery. Even if the engine starts okay an elderly battery can play havoc with the system.
[U]Suspension[/U]
The front lower arm suspension bushes are made out of chocolate. They are a right pain to replace. The double wishbone set up gets in the way. Around £80 – £120 for a new one. I’ve found the best way to change them is to undo the hub nut. Please note a new nut will be required.
The upper wishbones aren’t much better and even worse to replace. About £40 to buy – Alternative Auto’s are again the cheapest source I’ve found.
The rear traverse links wear but it shouldn’t be an issue at this age. The inner mounts are eccentric so it will need tracking after replacement. They’re cheap enough though £20 – £40.
Front Anti Roll Bar. The bushes wear and allow the roll bar to slide from side to side. It makes a hell of a racket. Completely random knocking from the front suspension? Roll bar. About £120 in parts and 3 hours labour – the subframe has to be removed again.
I think Alfa’s claim about quicker steering (Something like 2.2 turns down to 1.8) is somewhat misleading. It is quicker, but they had to further limit its lock (its laughable) to fit bigger wheels.
No known problems with dampers or springs, they’re a bit wobbly when new!
The front uprights (hub carriers) are unique to the GTA. Aside from the brake caliper mount spacing, I reckon they give around 1 degree less negative camber. Probably due to the lower ride height.
[U]Brakes[/U]
Up until November 2003, all 156’s and 147 GTA’s left the factory with 305mm front discs and 4 pot LUG MOUNTED brembo calipers.
There’s been all sorts of endless twaddle said about the 305’s, possibly a bad batch of calipers, according to some people, But the top and bottom of it is the 305 set up is prone to warping discs IMHO
Post november 2003, GTA’s were fitted with much more manly 330mm discs and radially mounted brake calipers allegedly from the back of an F360.
They use a more readily available brake pad size, shared with a Mitsi Evo 6 if I recall correctly. Either way Ferrodo DS2500’s are available in this flavour pad.
Alfa have offered a warranty up-grade somewhat reluctantly to some 305 equipped cars, it depended on the service manager and a proven history or brake problems, so its hit and mis as to what’s got what.
In their wisdom alfa said that the 330mm brakes would not fit behind the older softer looking multispoke alloys, only the teledials, and changed the design of the multi spokes to fit. They could have changed the design of the bolts holding the caliper on and got them to fit but hey ho…. So if the car has the older multispokes, 330’s won’t fit.
Hand brake cables seize but not at this age. Not worth worrying about.
Also brake pipe corrosion is known to be a problem on very early 156s. See David C’s sticky thread in the tech lounge/
WHEELS / TYRES
There allegedly was a 16” wheel option but I’ve never seen it.
All 225/45/17
Older Multi spokes (softer looking) 147 / 156
Teledials 147 / 156
Later Multi spokes (Shaper edges – fit over 330 brakes) 147 / 156
Teledials are prone to being kerbed and like most alloys, the rear wheels get a hard time from stones flung at them from the front wheels. This chips the laquer, allows watter to get in and causes bubling.
Then I believe they started offering the gorgeous 18” jet fin style GTA wheels off the GT on the very last 147’s.
[U]Miscellaneous[/U]
Both cars have unique wings and quarter panels as well as bumpers, body kit etc.... I'm sure you knew that.
No rubbing strips so look for parking dings.
Red cars......Rosso 130.......They're a bit of a headache in my opinion. Look fantastic but the paint fades to pink and it doesn't fade evenly. Plastic panels fade a different colour, probably due to the plasticiser in the paint, but either way pink cars cannot be polished back to red because Alfa in their infinite wisdom, lacquered them. The only cure is a full body re-spray.
The legs supporting the lower trailing edge of the bumpers:
They are the only known rust point but they are cheap and easy to replace. Its becoming an issue on pre 2000 cars. Shouldn't really be an issue with GTA's.
Sumps / Undertrays - The GTA is better than the rest of the range (in that its more stiffly suspended) but in un-caring hands it could have had its sump and undertray spanked on the tarmac, speed cushions...
Oiled Air Filters - The aftermarket K&N kind are not recommended. They are widely regarded as being detrimental to the life expectancy of the Air flow meter.
Spark Plugs - As you'd expect are a pain to get at on the rear bank. would recommend they are replaced with cambelt.
Cambelts - I did a quick bit of research on the forums and found 2 GTA cam belt failures, one at 59k and one at 49k.
I mostly lurk on http://forum.alfa156.net/forum if you have any questions.
Jackgta, did you get your csc yet? I got mine in the post today from ebspares. Yummy! Will try to fit it tomorrow. I cant wait to offload the standard exhaust. It looks terrible with that big steel lumpy bit behind it. CSC looks very nice 
Hope its not too loud or the ol cow next door will be whinging at me everytime I start my gta up!
Hope its not too loud or the ol cow next door will be whinging at me everytime I start my gta up!
Another tip - avoid puddles like the plague, they have a very low intake and a number of 156/147 owners have come a cropper and snapped a few con-rods. Neither the con-rods or the engines themselves are available, so you have to go the recon route.
I love mine though - I was lucky and got a Nuvelo white one with every option; Xenons, black/black leather, Connect+ Nav/Phone*, 18's and the 330mm brakes plus the rest. Already remapped by Angel and had the Autodelta coilies too.
Its not the best thing I've driven, but in term of ownership desirability, its off the scale. The engine is a thing of beauty.
As Autocar ones said:
"To look at, to sit in and to listen to, it lords over its natural rivals"
Oh, and as Clarkson once said:
"Every petrolhead should own an Alfa; its a rite of passage. Think of it as the great sex that leaves you with an embarrasing itch"
I love mine though - I was lucky and got a Nuvelo white one with every option; Xenons, black/black leather, Connect+ Nav/Phone*, 18's and the 330mm brakes plus the rest. Already remapped by Angel and had the Autodelta coilies too.
- Don't concern yourself with getting the Connect+ Nav. It looks nice, I like the built in phone and the 'stat' screen is cool, showing all your trips, MPG etc. But the Nav itself is rubbish, and new discs are £170.
Its not the best thing I've driven, but in term of ownership desirability, its off the scale. The engine is a thing of beauty.
As Autocar ones said:
"To look at, to sit in and to listen to, it lords over its natural rivals"
Oh, and as Clarkson once said:
"Every petrolhead should own an Alfa; its a rite of passage. Think of it as the great sex that leaves you with an embarrasing itch"
Edited by LoopyMattyB on Wednesday 13th February 11:16
Gassing Station | Alfa Romeo, Fiat & Lancia | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff