One last push for the 'Grale....
Discussion
Otherwise the Saab 99 will win the best Hot Hatch of all time.....
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/M...
And if not, what about the Sud......
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/M...
And if not, what about the Sud......
SAAB 99? Geography teachers car! Leather patches and all.... The Intergrale was and is too expensive (and fragile) to be a hot hatch. It has always been a dog fight between the Golf GTI and 205 GTI 1.9 personally I'd love a Delta but I need a car that I can drive to work every day and not spend more in the swear box than I earn. That's the beauty of the hot hatch you should be able to drive it to work and hammer it around the track.
Robert060379 said:
SAAB 99? Geography teachers car! Leather patches and all.... The Intergrale was and is too expensive (and fragile) to be a hot hatch. It has always been a dog fight between the Golf GTI and 205 GTI 1.9 personally I'd love a Delta but I need a car that I can drive to work every day and not spend more in the swear box than I earn. That's the beauty of the hot hatch you should be able to drive it to work and hammer it around the track.
I used mine as my daily drive. To commute to work, to Tescos, up and down the country visiting relatives and for a while my fiancee whilst she worked in a different part of the country.Running costs were entirely acceptable.
Yes, running costs and fragility are often seen as a downside of intergrale ownership, when in fact they are really quite robust.
Also, you have to weigh the running costs up against the biggest cost of running a new / nearly new car and that of course the depreciation.
Having lost £5K pa over the last 2 years on a BMW 520D the cost of running the integrale seems very reasonable. In fact, looking at recent sale price, I think I have perhaps made a bit of money on mine!
Also, you have to weigh the running costs up against the biggest cost of running a new / nearly new car and that of course the depreciation.
Having lost £5K pa over the last 2 years on a BMW 520D the cost of running the integrale seems very reasonable. In fact, looking at recent sale price, I think I have perhaps made a bit of money on mine!
Robert060379 said:
SAAB 99? Geography teachers car! Leather patches and all.... The Intergrale was and is too expensive (and fragile) to be a hot hatch. It has always been a dog fight between the Golf GTI and 205 GTI 1.9 personally I'd love a Delta but I need a car that I can drive to work every day and not spend more in the swear box than I earn. That's the beauty of the hot hatch you should be able to drive it to work and hammer it around the track.
Uhh - don't agree Robert.If the Grale is too expensive and fragile, which I myself don't find, to be a Hot Hatch - does that mean my Lambo Murcielago is too unreliable or unpractical to be a supercar. Of course not because supercars (and indeed any drivers car, which I consider Hot Hatches to be) are all about the experience, the drama, the highs and the lows of owning it.
In my view a Hot hatch is exactly that.... a HOT HATCH!...which the Integrale certainly IS. If we employ your ideology Robert the 205 Gti isn't a HH coz its build quality is s
t!!These cars are contenders NOT because of their individual idiosyncrasies, but because we as passionate drivers see them with fond memories of experiences had or because of a collective admiration of an iconic car.
Look its very simple.
£10k gets you the 2nd quickest A-B wet weather car the world has seen.
Unlike the quickest motor it will also deliver that experience with period yellow Veglia dials, proper Recaros and not the modern footballers Recaros and in hand trimmed Italian leather. It also looks hard as nails and is worshipped around the world as some kind of automotive God.
The Mitso Evo 9 maybe the quickest wet weather thing ever made, but you would still have to tolerate an interior that even BMW would regard as dire.
Ergo the grale is God. My logic is irrefutable
£10k gets you the 2nd quickest A-B wet weather car the world has seen.
Unlike the quickest motor it will also deliver that experience with period yellow Veglia dials, proper Recaros and not the modern footballers Recaros and in hand trimmed Italian leather. It also looks hard as nails and is worshipped around the world as some kind of automotive God.
The Mitso Evo 9 maybe the quickest wet weather thing ever made, but you would still have to tolerate an interior that even BMW would regard as dire.
Ergo the grale is God. My logic is irrefutable
My appologies to all the Geography teachers I've offended, I should've known you've moved on to Subarus now. Second quickest point to point car? Second behind the Escort Cosworth, Evo 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, WRX, etc, etc.....
The Intergrale is a fantastic car and without a doubt one of the if not the hottest hatch of all time. Fact! But for £10,000 to £15,000 you can have ten 205 1.9 GTIs, six Golf VR6's, five WRX's, a Metro 6R4, I've even seen a Ferrari 355 for £16.995 Have a look for yourself you can pay up to £6,000 for an Intergrale 8V "in need of tlc". If I had the money I'd at least buy a car with the steering wheel on the right side. The Hf Turbo and use a Fiat Coupe' engine to replace the 1.6.
The Intergrale is a fantastic car and without a doubt one of the if not the hottest hatch of all time. Fact! But for £10,000 to £15,000 you can have ten 205 1.9 GTIs, six Golf VR6's, five WRX's, a Metro 6R4, I've even seen a Ferrari 355 for £16.995 Have a look for yourself you can pay up to £6,000 for an Intergrale 8V "in need of tlc". If I had the money I'd at least buy a car with the steering wheel on the right side. The Hf Turbo and use a Fiat Coupe' engine to replace the 1.6.
Robert060379 said:
The Intergrale was and is too expensive (and fragile) to be a hot hatch.
Robert060379 said:
The Intergrale is a fantastic car and without a doubt one of the if not the hottest hatch of all time. Fact!
You're not making sense....and there's only one 'R' in integrale.
Robert060379 said:
My appologies to all the Geography teachers I've offended, I should've known you've moved on to Subarus now. Second quickest point to point car? Second behind the Escort Cosworth, Evo 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, WRX, etc, etc.....
The Intergrale is a fantastic car and without a doubt one of the if not the hottest hatch of all time. Fact! But for £10,000 to £15,000 you can have ten 205 1.9 GTIs, six Golf VR6's, five WRX's, a Metro 6R4, I've even seen a Ferrari 355 for £16.995 Have a look for yourself you can pay up to £6,000 for an Intergrale 8V "in need of tlc". If I had the money I'd at least buy a car with the steering wheel on the right side. The Hf Turbo and use a Fiat Coupe' engine to replace the 1.6.
Yeees, you didnt really read my post did you? What did I graciously acknowledge was the quickest A-b wet weather car of all time? An Evo 9. I dont mind crediting that thing as being a guided missile.The Intergrale is a fantastic car and without a doubt one of the if not the hottest hatch of all time. Fact! But for £10,000 to £15,000 you can have ten 205 1.9 GTIs, six Golf VR6's, five WRX's, a Metro 6R4, I've even seen a Ferrari 355 for £16.995 Have a look for yourself you can pay up to £6,000 for an Intergrale 8V "in need of tlc". If I had the money I'd at least buy a car with the steering wheel on the right side. The Hf Turbo and use a Fiat Coupe' engine to replace the 1.6.
You buy an F355 for £17 and good luck with maintaining it
When you have spent the purchase price again on the car in its first year...well you will have learnt your lesson. You also seem to think that the 355 is in a different league to the Integrale, forgetting that 'Grales were very much seen as the rallying counterparts to the 348 and 355 back in the day. Whatsmore given the respective competition standings of Lancia and Ferrari around 1993 or so, Lancia's comps dept. were viewed with far more respect than Ferrari. Oh and if you try and shove Fiat Coupe Turbo power through an ordinary HF chassis you will crack it. Its a minor point but one you may wish to consider.
Robert060379 said:
My appologies to all the Geography teachers I've offended, I should've known you've moved on to Subarus now. Second quickest point to point car? Second behind the Escort Cosworth, Evo 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, WRX, etc, etc.....
The Intergrale is a fantastic car and without a doubt one of the if not the hottest hatch of all time. Fact! But for £10,000 to £15,000 you can have ten 205 1.9 GTIs, six Golf VR6's, five WRX's, a Metro 6R4, I've even seen a Ferrari 355 for £16.995 Have a look for yourself you can pay up to £6,000 for an Intergrale 8V "in need of tlc". If I had the money I'd at least buy a car with the steering wheel on the right side. The Hf Turbo and use a Fiat Coupe' engine to replace the 1.6.
You've not driven all the above cars, have you? I would highly recommend it - you might find that you would re-evaluate your assessment.The Intergrale is a fantastic car and without a doubt one of the if not the hottest hatch of all time. Fact! But for £10,000 to £15,000 you can have ten 205 1.9 GTIs, six Golf VR6's, five WRX's, a Metro 6R4, I've even seen a Ferrari 355 for £16.995 Have a look for yourself you can pay up to £6,000 for an Intergrale 8V "in need of tlc". If I had the money I'd at least buy a car with the steering wheel on the right side. The Hf Turbo and use a Fiat Coupe' engine to replace the 1.6.
Oh-kay. I've driven three different Escort Cosworths, series 1 small turbo, facelifted big turbo and a Collins Engineering silly spec (one of only three cars ever to scare me) one, the Delta I drove was a standard Evo 16V so the best comparison I feel would be to the small turbo Cosy, I didn't like the WRX (sorry but it just didn't feel right), my brothers old Audi Quatro turbo (the second car) liked to understeer and the turbo lag didn't do much to pull you out of it, an Evo5 (felt like a slow Saphire Cosworth I've driven three of those in anger 2wd, 4wd and group N spec'), Evo 7 was a hoot but has a boot and I have owned, four 205 Gti's 1.6, 1.9 and Mi16, 309 Gti Goodwood, Uno Turbos Phase 1 and Phase 2, 5GTT Raider, 11 GTT (whatever happened to them), SAAB 900 Turbo 8v and 16V, Golf Gti II 8V, Golf Gti III 16 V, Golf VR6 Highline, and some classics.
The Lancia Delta Integrale is one of the cars I had posters and models of when I was younger. Stayed well up on list of cars I wanted to own (and still do if I'm honest) but compared to the Escort Cosworth the Evo I drove was quite a disappointment. Still a fantastic car but heavy, rattly and slow (in comparison). Maybe it was a duff one and I really should drive another to give a fair assesment, but after thirty of my three hundred mile jorney I wanted to swap seats with someone.
The same thing happened to my brother. Since he could remember he wanted an E-Type but as soon as he drove one he was gutted at how crap it was.
Anyway the point I was trying to make is the Delta is too exclusive to be a hot hatch. The hot hatch is the car that anyone can drive and enjoy driving, a car you can park outside a shop or a posh golf club, a car that you can ferry the kids to school and attack a B road like Carlos. I'm sorry my opinion isn't the same as everyone elses but to me at least the Lancia Delta doesn't tick all the boxes.
The Lancia Delta Integrale is one of the cars I had posters and models of when I was younger. Stayed well up on list of cars I wanted to own (and still do if I'm honest) but compared to the Escort Cosworth the Evo I drove was quite a disappointment. Still a fantastic car but heavy, rattly and slow (in comparison). Maybe it was a duff one and I really should drive another to give a fair assesment, but after thirty of my three hundred mile jorney I wanted to swap seats with someone.
The same thing happened to my brother. Since he could remember he wanted an E-Type but as soon as he drove one he was gutted at how crap it was.
Anyway the point I was trying to make is the Delta is too exclusive to be a hot hatch. The hot hatch is the car that anyone can drive and enjoy driving, a car you can park outside a shop or a posh golf club, a car that you can ferry the kids to school and attack a B road like Carlos. I'm sorry my opinion isn't the same as everyone elses but to me at least the Lancia Delta doesn't tick all the boxes.
Robert060379 said:
Anyway the point I was trying to make is the Delta is too exclusive to be a hot hatch. The hot hatch is the car that anyone can drive and enjoy driving, a car you can park outside a shop or a posh golf club, a car that you can ferry the kids to school and attack a B road like Carlos. I'm sorry my opinion isn't the same as everyone elses but to me at least the Lancia Delta doesn't tick all the boxes.
Sorry, but I had one for 5-6 years and it did all of these things. And believe it or not, it WAS reliable.Robert060379 said:
Oh-kay. I've driven three different Escort Cosworths, series 1 small turbo, facelifted big turbo and a Collins Engineering silly spec (one of only three cars ever to scare me) one, the Delta I drove was a standard Evo 16V so the best comparison I feel would be to the small turbo Cosy, I didn't like the WRX (sorry but it just didn't feel right), my brothers old Audi Quatro turbo (the second car) liked to understeer and the turbo lag didn't do much to pull you out of it, an Evo5 (felt like a slow Saphire Cosworth I've driven three of those in anger 2wd, 4wd and group N spec'), Evo 7 was a hoot but has a boot and I have owned, four 205 Gti's 1.6, 1.9 and Mi16, 309 Gti Goodwood, Uno Turbos Phase 1 and Phase 2, 5GTT Raider, 11 GTT (whatever happened to them), SAAB 900 Turbo 8v and 16V, Golf Gti II 8V, Golf Gti III 16 V, Golf VR6 Highline, and some classics.
The Lancia Delta Integrale is one of the cars I had posters and models of when I was younger. Stayed well up on list of cars I wanted to own (and still do if I'm honest) but compared to the Escort Cosworth the Evo I drove was quite a disappointment. Still a fantastic car but heavy, rattly and slow (in comparison). Maybe it was a duff one and I really should drive another to give a fair assesment, but after thirty of my three hundred mile jorney I wanted to swap seats with someone.
The same thing happened to my brother. Since he could remember he wanted an E-Type but as soon as he drove one he was gutted at how crap it was.
Anyway the point I was trying to make is the Delta is too exclusive to be a hot hatch. The hot hatch is the car that anyone can drive and enjoy driving, a car you can park outside a shop or a posh golf club, a car that you can ferry the kids to school and attack a B road like Carlos. I'm sorry my opinion isn't the same as everyone elses but to me at least the Lancia Delta doesn't tick all the boxes.
Too expensive to be a hot hatch? How much is a Golf R32? Or an Alfa 147 GTA? Hmmm.The Lancia Delta Integrale is one of the cars I had posters and models of when I was younger. Stayed well up on list of cars I wanted to own (and still do if I'm honest) but compared to the Escort Cosworth the Evo I drove was quite a disappointment. Still a fantastic car but heavy, rattly and slow (in comparison). Maybe it was a duff one and I really should drive another to give a fair assesment, but after thirty of my three hundred mile jorney I wanted to swap seats with someone.
The same thing happened to my brother. Since he could remember he wanted an E-Type but as soon as he drove one he was gutted at how crap it was.
Anyway the point I was trying to make is the Delta is too exclusive to be a hot hatch. The hot hatch is the car that anyone can drive and enjoy driving, a car you can park outside a shop or a posh golf club, a car that you can ferry the kids to school and attack a B road like Carlos. I'm sorry my opinion isn't the same as everyone elses but to me at least the Lancia Delta doesn't tick all the boxes.
Regarding it feeling heavy, you say you drove it over 300 miles? Assuming that was motorway miles?
I luv this 'best car in the world' st - its SO subjective. I agree all the cars mentioned are well worthy of a mention..... but who will remember a R32 in 10 years time - probably the VW heads I guess.
My bruvs got a Evo 9 57 plate after owning a Subaru pro drive -without sounding pompously 'my Lambo' and st, I just found both of them very ' stuff a super powerful engine (although brilliantly engineered!) into essentially a chassis that can barely handle the torque. The chassis squeals and contorts once you put your toe down and you find yourself thanking God you have the 4x4 to keep on the black stuff! - when he lent it to me for 2 weeks, I left it in the drive and drove my VW transporter instead.
...anyway - it was FAR too reliable
t - its SO subjective. I agree all the cars mentioned are well worthy of a mention..... but who will remember a R32 in 10 years time - probably the VW heads I guess.My bruvs got a Evo 9 57 plate after owning a Subaru pro drive -without sounding pompously 'my Lambo' and s
t, I just found both of them very ' stuff a super powerful engine (although brilliantly engineered!) into essentially a chassis that can barely handle the torque. The chassis squeals and contorts once you put your toe down and you find yourself thanking God you have the 4x4 to keep on the black stuff! - when he lent it to me for 2 weeks, I left it in the drive and drove my VW transporter instead....anyway - it was FAR too reliable
I'd forgotten about the R32 already. ;-) R32 isn't that a a Skyline? That'd be a good one R32 Skyline versus a big bored VR6. Who'd win? The Delta drive was across Spain and varied from dirt tracks to Motorway-ish roads. Dispite the fact the car didn't live up to my expectations, I still have a soft spot for it and felt quite sorry for the car in the end. I think I'd better start saving up for a decent one.
Whatever happens don't let the SAAB win! Can we at least all agree about that?
Whatever happens don't let the SAAB win! Can we at least all agree about that?
Muzzlehatch said:
Robert, it certainly sounds like you drove a duffer Grale. A good 'un will leave you wanting nothing else.
Of the list available, I think most would agree that the most iconic "hot hatch" is really the Golf GTI.
I have kinda got to agree with you - that was the car that caught everyone's imagination back in 1984 wasn't it???Of the list available, I think most would agree that the most iconic "hot hatch" is really the Golf GTI.
1984? I was about to start school. More into Thomas the Tank Engine at the time. ;-) The 'grale was the first car that was quicker than my brothers Quatro. In the interest of sibling rivalry it became an icon in my eyes. I always prefered the S4 to all the group "B" cars, the 6R4 was a Tonka toy, the RS200 was a mad UFO looking thing and the TI16 205 looked like a Chav-chariot (Dimma kit).
Gassing Station | Alfa Romeo, Fiat & Lancia | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff