Does anyone actually look after Fiat Coupe's?
Discussion
I recently became the owner of a non-Turbo Fiat Coupe 16V (took it in as a part exchange) with a snapped cam belt. Thinking new head/engine I started doing a part search and found that every single Fiat Coupe in this green and pleasent salvage yard have snapped cam belts. The 16V is the easiest to maintain (the most accesable at least) and a cam belt change is a simple DIY job. So my question is.....
Why can't people look after such a good car?
There are some proper sheds I wouldn't urinate on if they were on fire let alone consider the delusional "buy it now price" of well over a grand on a well known auction web site. Maybe there is some kind of inherent fault with the Fiat twin cam engine that makes all the cam belt snap or a fault with the cam belt manufacturing process so they all fail prematurely. If there is something wrong internally with the engine that would make rebuilding the engine a complete waste of time, money and effort. If that's the case I won't bother and break the car instead. What do you guys think?
Oh and if anyone has a decent engine reasonably priced let me know via email. That's a Fiat Coupe 16V non-turbo engine not a Civic Type R thank you. Oh and I don't want a Turbo conversion either if I wanted one of those I would buy one.
Why can't people look after such a good car?
There are some proper sheds I wouldn't urinate on if they were on fire let alone consider the delusional "buy it now price" of well over a grand on a well known auction web site. Maybe there is some kind of inherent fault with the Fiat twin cam engine that makes all the cam belt snap or a fault with the cam belt manufacturing process so they all fail prematurely. If there is something wrong internally with the engine that would make rebuilding the engine a complete waste of time, money and effort. If that's the case I won't bother and break the car instead. What do you guys think?
Oh and if anyone has a decent engine reasonably priced let me know via email. That's a Fiat Coupe 16V non-turbo engine not a Civic Type R thank you. Oh and I don't want a Turbo conversion either if I wanted one of those I would buy one.
The 16V Coupe' was only produced in 1995 and 1996 due to the 2.0 Tempra/Tipo engines being readilly available at the time and the GM bean counters spoiling the party. GM handed Fiat and Alfa over to Ford and the 16V was binned in favor of the Volvo/Audi-esque five pot (funny how the Focus finally got good not long after that eh?). I know where there's a rolled Group N Delta Evo waiting for a re-shell. As the 16V engine's prancing rocking horse poo I'm thinking of alternatives. As GM were ruining Fiat at the time how about an Eco-tec V6 or Alfa 164 V6? I could cut the floor out of the Coupe' and weld the Delta floor in its place and give the Coupe' the power (340bhp) and handling it always deserved. Can't see my mate selling the Evo even to such a worthy cause, besides I haven't got a gig or a shed big enough for that. Anyway I've been quoted £895 inc' VAT for the head to be rebuilt and a reconditioned engine will set me back £1495 (£1195 more than the car owes me). On the plus side I have just bought a 1985 Lancia Beta Coupe' and the leather, brakes and other usefull bits of the Fiat Coupe will be re-homed there. I can always Ebay/skip the rest, pity because the Fiat Coupe was one of my favorite cars of all time. I'll just have to save up for one that actually works.
I knew the cam belt had gone. The rest of the car is perfect. Apsoutely spotless. Just every single car I have come across on my part search has had the same problem. The GM belt tensioners are crap! If you own a any Fiat from 1994 to 1999 bin the tensioner and get the (slightly more expensive) Lancia/Alfa equivlent. It will save your engine. My 1992 Tipo 2.0 16V had the original factory fitted tensioner when I changed the belt at 121,081 miles in 2001. I changed it for a GM/Fiat one and the belt went in 2002 at 130,416 miles. I had sold the Tipo on by then and the engine was replaced by the new owner the same week. The Tipo engines all had the old tensioners and there were loads about in good condition. It will be a pity to break such a good car. I'm going to strip the head today to see how bad it is. My search for a replacement engine continues.
Robert060379 said:
The 16V Coupe' was only produced in 1995 and 1996 due to the 2.0 Tempra/Tipo engines being readilly available at the time and the GM bean counters spoiling the party. GM handed Fiat and Alfa over to Ford and the 16V was binned in favor of the Volvo/Audi-esque five pot (funny how the Focus finally got good not long after that eh?). I know where there's a rolled Group N Delta Evo waiting for a re-shell. As the 16V engine's prancing rocking horse poo I'm thinking of alternatives. As GM were ruining Fiat at the time how about an Eco-tec V6 or Alfa 164 V6? I could cut the floor out of the Coupe' and weld the Delta floor in its place and give the Coupe' the power (340bhp) and handling it always deserved. Can't see my mate selling the Evo even to such a worthy cause, besides I haven't got a gig or a shed big enough for that. Anyway I've been quoted £895 inc' VAT for the head to be rebuilt and a reconditioned engine will set me back £1495 (£1195 more than the car owes me). On the plus side I have just bought a 1985 Lancia Beta Coupe' and the leather, brakes and other usefull bits of the Fiat Coupe will be re-homed there. I can always Ebay/skip the rest, pity because the Fiat Coupe was one of my favorite cars of all time. I'll just have to save up for one that actually works.
Niether GM or Ford ever ran the Fiat group, however Fiat did have a partnership with GM for a bit.Ford are in charge of Fiat now. GM took up Fiat after giving Lotus away to Proton; because Lotus insisted on using the Rover engine in the Elise and helped develope the VVC, GM Vauxhall developed the VX220. My Dad was retired from Lotus by Proton for being over fifty. He started with them from the GM factory in Vancover to help with F1 and later the Lotus Senitor that would become the Lotus Calton because the wheel base was too long. The semi-take over of Fiat by Ford was very well publisised becuse Ford tried to buy Fiat/Ferrari in the 60's and built the GT40 because Enzo pulled the plug. To mark the occaision Ford revised the GT40 and made the Ford GT. The new Ford UK range are nearly all Fiats with different badges. Sit a new KA next to a 500 or a Fiesta next to a Punto and tell me I'm wrong.
Robert060379 said:
The new Ford UK range are nearly all Fiats with different badges. Sit a new KA next to a 500 or a Fiesta next to a Punto and tell me I'm wrong.
The only correct part of that is the Ka/500 - Fiat and Ford agreed a deal to platform-share, but on the Panda platform only. The Fiesta is a different platform entirely to the Punto - it's only shared with Mazda, which is part of the Ford group.As far as I know there is no link at all between the 5-cylinder that Fiat used in the Coupe (and later the Bravo/Stilo/Croma/etc) and the one that Ford/Volvo use now.
As for "Ford are in charge of Fiat now", that's just laughable. Only one of those is in the black and profitable right now, and it isn't Ford. The only reason Ford stumped up the cash to Fiat to use their platform is because they've been flailing around desperately trying to save money for a few years (even before the "economic crisis"), and Fiat had a decent platform ready to go.
Edited by sjg on Saturday 4th April 17:20
Pooh said:
Robert060379 said:
The 16V Coupe' was only produced in 1995 and 1996 due to the 2.0 Tempra/Tipo engines being readilly available at the time and the GM bean counters spoiling the party. GM handed Fiat and Alfa over to Ford and the 16V was binned in favor of the Volvo/Audi-esque five pot (funny how the Focus finally got good not long after that eh?). I know where there's a rolled Group N Delta Evo waiting for a re-shell. As the 16V engine's prancing rocking horse poo I'm thinking of alternatives. As GM were ruining Fiat at the time how about an Eco-tec V6 or Alfa 164 V6? I could cut the floor out of the Coupe' and weld the Delta floor in its place and give the Coupe' the power (340bhp) and handling it always deserved. Can't see my mate selling the Evo even to such a worthy cause, besides I haven't got a gig or a shed big enough for that. Anyway I've been quoted £895 inc' VAT for the head to be rebuilt and a reconditioned engine will set me back £1495 (£1195 more than the car owes me). On the plus side I have just bought a 1985 Lancia Beta Coupe' and the leather, brakes and other usefull bits of the Fiat Coupe will be re-homed there. I can always Ebay/skip the rest, pity because the Fiat Coupe was one of my favorite cars of all time. I'll just have to save up for one that actually works.
Niether GM or Ford ever ran the Fiat group, however Fiat did have a partnership with GM for a bit.sjg said:
[quote=Robert060379
As far as I know there is no link at all between the 5-cylinder that Fiat used in the Coupe (and later the Bravo/Stilo/Croma/etc) and the one that Ford/Volvo use now.
Agreed, the 5 cylinder engine is part of the "modular" engine range used within the Fiat group, nothing whatsoever to do with Ford or Volvo or Audi. The 16v in the Coupe is one of the last incarnations of the original Lampredi design.As far as I know there is no link at all between the 5-cylinder that Fiat used in the Coupe (and later the Bravo/Stilo/Croma/etc) and the one that Ford/Volvo use now.
The answer to the OP's question "Why can't people look after such a great car" is very simple. They are now cheap to buy, but the cost of maintaining them has not fallen (which has always been quite high). As such many are bought by people who run them into the ground as they can't afford to service them.
The main thing to watch out for on the 16v engines is wear in the camshafts. These can get so bad that the valves barely open, and all the swarf from the lobes and followers spreads around the rest of the engine causing havoc.
Anyway back to my car. After all maybe it is just a coincidence that Fiat twin cam engines have never had a problem with cam belt adjusters until they were fitted to the Coupe and the part number coincidently became the same as the one fitted to the Vauxhall XE and Eco-tec.
Found a rear ended 155 V6 for silly cheap money. Two problems it's not a proper car (two pedals? Blah!) and the tank being trollied means I cant hear it running. Oh and as far as stripping the head today got. I lifted the worlds heaviest bonnet, and the slightest of breezes blew it shut again. I'll prop the bonnet up with an old broom handle tomorrow and have another go.
Found a rear ended 155 V6 for silly cheap money. Two problems it's not a proper car (two pedals? Blah!) and the tank being trollied means I cant hear it running. Oh and as far as stripping the head today got. I lifted the worlds heaviest bonnet, and the slightest of breezes blew it shut again. I'll prop the bonnet up with an old broom handle tomorrow and have another go.
Robert060379 said:
Found a rear ended 155 V6 for silly cheap money. Two problems it's not a proper car (two pedals? Blah!) and the tank being trollied means I cant hear it running.
Unless I've misread your post...you're suggesting the 155 you're bought is an automatic?Do you mean 156 (which isn't an auto anyway)?
wrinx
Edited by wrinx on Saturday 4th April 19:39
Haven't seen the car up close yet, but from the photos it is a Red, 155, narrow body, 1994 M-reg, 2.5 V6, and the bloke selling it says it has a black leather interior and an autotragic box. There's a 3.0 164 on a certain auction site at £99.99 at the moment classy advert to go with it. Spade is a spade territory. 155s are brilliant I had a flippy blue twinspark should never have sold it. Anyone has one for sale and would like knackered Fiat Coupe in part exchange let me know. lol
Robert060379 said:
Haven't seen the car up close yet, but from the photos it is a Red, 155, narrow body, 1994 M-reg, 2.5 V6, and the bloke selling it says it has a black leather interior and an autotragic box.
Unique car then...155s were never fitted with automatic gearboxes from the factory.wrinx
Robert060379 said:
Anyway back to my car. After all maybe it is just a coincidence that Fiat twin cam engines have never had a problem with cam belt adjusters until they were fitted to the Coupe and the part number coincidently became the same as the one fitted to the Vauxhall XE and Eco-tec.
Found a rear ended 155 V6 for silly cheap money. Two problems it's not a proper car (two pedals? Blah!) and the tank being trollied means I cant hear it running. Oh and as far as stripping the head today got. I lifted the worlds heaviest bonnet, and the slightest of breezes blew it shut again. I'll prop the bonnet up with an old broom handle tomorrow and have another go.
Can't say I've ever had any bother with the bonnet blowing down on mine.Found a rear ended 155 V6 for silly cheap money. Two problems it's not a proper car (two pedals? Blah!) and the tank being trollied means I cant hear it running. Oh and as far as stripping the head today got. I lifted the worlds heaviest bonnet, and the slightest of breezes blew it shut again. I'll prop the bonnet up with an old broom handle tomorrow and have another go.
Sounds like you've bought an utter shed.
Got a friendly Police officer friend (ex-girlfriend) of mine to PNC the number plate for me, apparently it was registered as a disabled vehicle. So may have been converted to auto for one of the cars owners.
What Mike said earlier makes a lot of sence it may also be why so many Fiat Coupe's are driven without insurance. Group 19 premium for a bargain car. My Police officer friend has personally been responsible for five going through the crusher. There's one in the compound now waiting to go. I wonder if I can swap engines while they're not looking. ;-)
What Mike said earlier makes a lot of sence it may also be why so many Fiat Coupe's are driven without insurance. Group 19 premium for a bargain car. My Police officer friend has personally been responsible for five going through the crusher. There's one in the compound now waiting to go. I wonder if I can swap engines while they're not looking. ;-)
Spent the night shift weighing up my options and the Coupe is dead. I can't be arsed to fix it because the non turbo 16V engine may be the cheapest to insure and run but pulling a 1400Kg car simply isn't up to the task. The engine will fail again no matter how much time effort and money I put into it.
So to conclude the reason nobody looks after Fiat Coupe's is simple. Why spend money keeping it on the road when you can pick up another one for the price of three services? A top of the range, two owner, Portoforino Blue, 20V Turbo, with full service history and five months T&T sold on Ebay last night for £883.68! There's a Broom Yellow, non turbo on there right now strugling to get over £400
I will be stripping the car so if you want to place a bet on weather it was the belt, tensioner, bent cam, bearings or other cause that killed the car I'll let you know as soon as I do. I will be using some of the parts myself but not on the Lancia Beta, something more me; that should keep you guessing (considering I used to have a stripped out Panda with an Uno Turbo engine under the bonnet).
Thank you to everyone who added to this thread. You input possitive or not has helped me a great deal. If anyone wants any parts I don't use myself you're more than welcome.
All the best, Rob
So to conclude the reason nobody looks after Fiat Coupe's is simple. Why spend money keeping it on the road when you can pick up another one for the price of three services? A top of the range, two owner, Portoforino Blue, 20V Turbo, with full service history and five months T&T sold on Ebay last night for £883.68! There's a Broom Yellow, non turbo on there right now strugling to get over £400
I will be stripping the car so if you want to place a bet on weather it was the belt, tensioner, bent cam, bearings or other cause that killed the car I'll let you know as soon as I do. I will be using some of the parts myself but not on the Lancia Beta, something more me; that should keep you guessing (considering I used to have a stripped out Panda with an Uno Turbo engine under the bonnet).
Thank you to everyone who added to this thread. You input possitive or not has helped me a great deal. If anyone wants any parts I don't use myself you're more than welcome.
All the best, Rob
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