R599AGV - 20vt - Anyone? Advice? 20vt Coupe
Discussion
..I've already posted this on FCCUK here http://www.fccuk.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=show... and have a similar thread running in GG here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... but wanted to post in here incase anyone has missed it..
Hi,
Been to look at this just now, is a burgundy 20vt with full leather, AC. Apparently was in Blackpool previously (now Mansfield), but has been serviced at Desira Bury.
Everything seems good with it, almost too good to be true except one thing. The service book has some tippex in it, where the mileage has been changed. This was in 2000 I think. There is also another bit in 2003 where is looks like it could have been tampered with but not sure - there is some ink marks near the service 'form' type bit, but thinking about it now it could have been undried ink from a later service on the other page. Will check this again.
..The mileage is at 70ishk at the mo, but the mileage between 2001-2003 seemed to be about 4k (from 28k to 32k). As in the title this is the first Coupe I've had a decent look around. It seemed in VGC compared with others I've seen online and read about. The leather seems in decent condition, as does the steering wheel. Certainly doesnt look like a car that's done 120k or owt, but then I've not seen one in person..
Basically any help or opinion would be nice..
Thanks, Greg.
Hi,
Been to look at this just now, is a burgundy 20vt with full leather, AC. Apparently was in Blackpool previously (now Mansfield), but has been serviced at Desira Bury.
Everything seems good with it, almost too good to be true except one thing. The service book has some tippex in it, where the mileage has been changed. This was in 2000 I think. There is also another bit in 2003 where is looks like it could have been tampered with but not sure - there is some ink marks near the service 'form' type bit, but thinking about it now it could have been undried ink from a later service on the other page. Will check this again.
..The mileage is at 70ishk at the mo, but the mileage between 2001-2003 seemed to be about 4k (from 28k to 32k). As in the title this is the first Coupe I've had a decent look around. It seemed in VGC compared with others I've seen online and read about. The leather seems in decent condition, as does the steering wheel. Certainly doesnt look like a car that's done 120k or owt, but then I've not seen one in person..
Basically any help or opinion would be nice..
Thanks, Greg.
If you have some nail varnish remover, take the tipex off with some kitchen roll (photograph before and after).
If the garage made a mistake then they should have crossed it out, signed it and started again.
Tipex on a car's history is very dodgy. I wouldn't have bought the car in the first place and you may have difficulty selling it on. If the history has been tampered with and the car has been sold as having a full and/or correct service history then the seller will be commiting fraud and should be strung up. If you haven't bought the car yet don't or get at leat £500 off the price. If you have bought the car and paid over £1000 for it then it's a matter for the Police (and seek advice from them first, get them to remove the tipex because it is now evidence) less than £1000 and it is a civil matter and pay a visit to the Citizens Advice Burau or your solicitors. The tipex may have been put there by a previous owner (or so they will claim) and the seller may not be responsible, but knowing the history has been tampered with should be a lever to the price at least. A faulse or tampered history means NO history as far as the Law is concerned.
This may seem extreme but if this has happened to you; you can stop it happening to someone else. Buying a desirable car shouldn't be a roll of the dice.
If the garage made a mistake then they should have crossed it out, signed it and started again.
Tipex on a car's history is very dodgy. I wouldn't have bought the car in the first place and you may have difficulty selling it on. If the history has been tampered with and the car has been sold as having a full and/or correct service history then the seller will be commiting fraud and should be strung up. If you haven't bought the car yet don't or get at leat £500 off the price. If you have bought the car and paid over £1000 for it then it's a matter for the Police (and seek advice from them first, get them to remove the tipex because it is now evidence) less than £1000 and it is a civil matter and pay a visit to the Citizens Advice Burau or your solicitors. The tipex may have been put there by a previous owner (or so they will claim) and the seller may not be responsible, but knowing the history has been tampered with should be a lever to the price at least. A faulse or tampered history means NO history as far as the Law is concerned.
This may seem extreme but if this has happened to you; you can stop it happening to someone else. Buying a desirable car shouldn't be a roll of the dice.
Edited by Robert060379 on Sunday 26th April 09:29
Well, seeing as you resurrected the post.
I got an email back from Desira Bury, the servicing garage. I asked them if they had any service records for the car as there was some tippex'd alterations - didnt mention any numbers.
They got back to me saying that they could find some records on their older system, but they didnt use it any more and had lost lots of the records. However, they did confirm (I cant remember the exact numbers but they were something like this) that in 2000-ish that the mileage was approx 21k, and that in 2006 the mileage was approx 60k. These matched up with those in the book, so do believe the history to be true..
I wont be buying the car though, I think after my brief experience in the passenger seat I wouldnt enjoy it. Although a short drive, the handling didnt seem great (understeery/boatlike), and there could have been a problem with this particular cars cooling system. I want a fun car to drive, it wont be a mile muncher. Some comfort is preferable, but something I can throw around too.
..I really dont know what to get now - A Mk2 Golf GTI 16v has always been on the list, but in terms of stepping up a level in performance of my last cars that doesnt fit so even if I do get the Golf there is always the question of what after. At the moment I am thinking Corrado VR6, Alfa GTV V6, Clio 172 etc, Integra Type R.. None offer the value or straightline performance of a 20vt though.
I got an email back from Desira Bury, the servicing garage. I asked them if they had any service records for the car as there was some tippex'd alterations - didnt mention any numbers.
They got back to me saying that they could find some records on their older system, but they didnt use it any more and had lost lots of the records. However, they did confirm (I cant remember the exact numbers but they were something like this) that in 2000-ish that the mileage was approx 21k, and that in 2006 the mileage was approx 60k. These matched up with those in the book, so do believe the history to be true..
I wont be buying the car though, I think after my brief experience in the passenger seat I wouldnt enjoy it. Although a short drive, the handling didnt seem great (understeery/boatlike), and there could have been a problem with this particular cars cooling system. I want a fun car to drive, it wont be a mile muncher. Some comfort is preferable, but something I can throw around too.
..I really dont know what to get now - A Mk2 Golf GTI 16v has always been on the list, but in terms of stepping up a level in performance of my last cars that doesnt fit so even if I do get the Golf there is always the question of what after. At the moment I am thinking Corrado VR6, Alfa GTV V6, Clio 172 etc, Integra Type R.. None offer the value or straightline performance of a 20vt though.
That sadly is the five pots Acilese heel. The Fiat Coupe is a heavy car but instead of making it lighter they just put more power under the bonnet. The 16V Turbo is the best of the bunch.
I had a similar experience with a Cinquecento Sporting that had only done "3000 miles since the last M.O.T". The dashboard screws being rounded off made me walk from that one. I saw the car two weeks later needing a new gear box.
I weighed in a VR6 last week. Three owners from new, tidy dragon green paint, clear HPI check, 112,000 miles and a full dealership (no tipex) history. It was taken in as a £600 part exchange and sat there for eleven months. My friend who runs the dealership got fed up with it and told me to take it to the crusher. There's one on ebay right now for £214 with no reserve.
I had a similar experience with a Cinquecento Sporting that had only done "3000 miles since the last M.O.T". The dashboard screws being rounded off made me walk from that one. I saw the car two weeks later needing a new gear box.
I weighed in a VR6 last week. Three owners from new, tidy dragon green paint, clear HPI check, 112,000 miles and a full dealership (no tipex) history. It was taken in as a £600 part exchange and sat there for eleven months. My friend who runs the dealership got fed up with it and told me to take it to the crusher. There's one on ebay right now for £214 with no reserve.
Having a ride in what sounds like one with knackered suspension and not even driving it yourself then giving up seems a bit silly. Why don't you find a decent condition one, ideally with updated shocks etc and take one for a drive? Mine has uprated shocks and boatlike is the exact opposite of how it feels.
I've not given up as such, but have definitely gone off them slightly - and I would have liked to have driven it but I am not insured. I dont think it had knackered shocks although admittedly they probably werent in great condition. Maybe you should take me out in yours?
Going by values on FCCUK a supposed good car as you describe would cost around £2.5-3k, and then also the additional cost of insuring a modified car would see it as not being worth it to me.
Going by values on FCCUK a supposed good car as you describe would cost around £2.5-3k, and then also the additional cost of insuring a modified car would see it as not being worth it to me.
The Fiat will always be a class act compared to the VR6. Think of it as a scalpel to the VW axe. The best thing to do with the Corrado is get a base 1.8 (if you can find one) and stick a VAG 1.8 Turbo in there, Porsche brakes, a Stack (dash) and a bucket (to loose some of the weight). I saw one like this at Snetterton last year it would lift off oversteer and hang there like my Uno Turbo did. The first time I've ever been impressed by a German car. It's a buyers market for perfomance and classic cars now (good old new Labour old Torries recession) so there are plenty of 20V Turbos about.
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