Delta or Alfa 33 - Am I mad?

[Mighty Flex]

In my current situation, I have the ability to insure anything up to 1800cc and over 20 years old reasonably (except turbos and anything worth much )

I need the ability to seat 4 adults (5 would be a bonus) for mostly short journeys.
It should be vaguely reliable, or at least fixable by a novice who is willing to learn some basic stuff. Basically mechanically and structurally solid, but a few little issues are not a problem.
Also a vaguely decent MPG is preferable, but with a low mileage (~4000 a year) not a massive concern.
As a bonus it has to be fun, and be a little bit cool, in a Pistonheads bloody minded sort of way.

These, among other things, led me to late 80s (anything over 20 years old) non turbo Deltas or Alfa 33s. While they are different cars, I expect owning either is a similar experience.
If I was to find one for approx £1000 (preferably less), what could I expect to be spending on maintenance per year. What could go horribly wrong, or should I forget it altogether? Anything else I should be considering?

Thanks for any replies.





no MX5s please

[RicksAlfas]

Blimey.


I suggest you have a look here...
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/default.php
http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/
http://www.justsuds.co.uk/

...to get an idea of what you are letting yourself in for.
Keep an eye in the AROC classifieds as well:
http://www.aroc-uk.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale.h...

Can't help you much on the Delta.
Wasn't that just a Fiat Strada in drag?

[Mighty Flex]

RicksAlfas said:

Blimey.


I suggest you have a look here...
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/default.php
http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/
http://www.justsuds.co.uk/

...to get an idea of what you are letting yourself in for.
Keep an eye in the AROC classifieds as well:
http://www.aroc-uk.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale.h...

Can't help you much on the Delta.
Wasn't that just a Fiat Strada in drag?

cheers
looked at those, registered on the 33 site. Who knows what could happen?

I haven't seen a non Abarth Strada for over 10 years.

[mammamia]

I,d look for a Honda, Toyota or Nissan of that age. You,d be asking for lots of trouble with an old Alfa or Lancia.

[Mighty Flex]

mammamia said:

I,d look for a Honda, Toyota or Nissan of that age. You,d be asking for lots of trouble with an old Alfa or Lancia.

I have also investigated this, how much of a difference could I expect to see in reality?

[p17sut]

I've owned both a 1989 Lancia Delta 1.6 GTie and a 1991 Alfa 33 1.7 16v Cloverleaf.....but not for long so I cant be much help apart from sticking some pictures up!

I'd say you've got far more chance of finding a decent 33 than a Delta anyway, and neither were sensible purchase by me!

If I was a mechanic or able to tinker with them and do more basic maintenance myself, I think they would have been fine for me.
They had no running problems in my short ownership mind you as both were tidy examples all round.

Although I wanted to own them both as I loved the rare slightly retro factor and I love Italian cars in general.....being honest the best car of similar age I've owned was a 1991 Mk2 Golf GTi 8v.

It wasn't perfect, but always seemed a better purchase than the other 2, much easier to live with, find for sale or sell and get bits for. They all cost me about £800 and I sold for about the same within a 2 year period.

Not much help I know, but i'll stick some pics up later!

[Mighty Flex]

p17sut said:

Although I wanted to own them both as I loved the rare slightly retro factor and I love Italian cars in general.....being honest the best car of similar age I've owned was a 1991 Mk2 Golf GTi 8v.

It wasn't perfect, but always seemed a better purchase than the other 2, much easier to live with, find for sale or sell and get bits for. They all cost me about £800 and I sold for about the same within a 2 year period.

this is what my head says. but my heart is stupid.

[crostonian]

Had loads of 33s and Deltas back in the day, now all you see are rust buckets or concourse examples, very little in between unfortunately and would be a shame to use a concourse car regularly as these things soon start to show signs of wear inside and out. The Delta seems to last better and has a more normal driving position but you can't beat the flat four in the 33. Your 20 year old rule just knocks out a few good cars such as the Alfa 155 and Fiat Tipo Sedicivalvole.

Perhaps the Golf GTi is the best option after all or may be an 80s BMW 3 Series.

[Mighty Flex]

crostonian said:

Had loads of 33s and Deltas back in the day, now all you see are rust buckets or concourse examples, very little in between unfortunately and would be a shame to use a concourse car regularly as these things soon start to show signs of wear inside and out. The Delta seems to last better and has a more normal driving position but you can't beat the flat four in the 33. Your 20 year old rule just knocks out a few good cars such as the Alfa 155 and Fiat Tipo Sedicivalvole.

Perhaps the Golf GTi is the best option after all or may be an 80s BMW 3 Series.

this is an issue. decent 33s that could happily be runners are not too rare, but yes, it minters and rust buckets mainly. Having looked though, what appears to be a series 2 or series 3 33 in good condition with lots of history and very little rust, is not too rare. I am not planning to skimp on maintenance, and my father has gallons of Dinitrol from an old Lancia garage.

The BMW idea is wroth a look, but I'm not sure if the insurers would like it. I have come across a few BMW specific exclusion clauses.

The golf may well be the best solution, but that's the obvious choice...

As far as japanese stuff goes, how are Corollas or Civics of the late 80s? I should probably go and ask this in another section of the forum

[crostonian]

From memory none of the interesting Jap stuff of this period could sit four adults in comfort, most were 3 door hatches or coupes or boring!

[Mighty Flex]

crostonian said:

From memory none of the interesting Jap stuff of this period could sit four adults in comfort, most were 3 door hatches or coupes or boring!

Civic 1.6 3 doors look interesting, but not sure about rear space.
Talking about Honda engines, there are the rover 200s to consider... possibly a bad idea

[crostonian]

Was going to suggest the 216 GTi/416 GTi, they had the 130 bhp twin cam out of the CRX however they don't quite qualify as cool though....

[Mighty Flex]

crostonian said:

Was going to suggest the 216 GTi/416 GTi, they had the 130 bhp twin cam out of the CRX however they don't quite qualify as cool though....

I don't know. Cool in an idiosyncratic sleeper kind of way maybe? they look like good value, without looking any further

Doesn't have to be cool, is a bonus though.

[RichV6]

Despite having my third alfa I previously owned a BMW E30 318iS
and would have another tomorrow but don't have the room. Rev happy 1800cc 16v lump same suspension and brakes as a 325. Only 2 doors and a little tail happy, also watch for rust around rear arches and battery tray.

[mammamia]

Jap wise ( well built in Swindon, England ) my Honda Accord Mk. 2, 2000 reg. 1800s sits 4 adults,
never missed a beat, have to rev. the V -Tech. engine for serious performance, but takes it and sounds nice, mpg good, you could get a nice one for less than a grand and should last years, with no rust or reliability issues. just need to change oil regularly, easy to do yourself.

[Ross Parker]

Warning! the delta and 33 are very very rare. You would want the S3 33 1.7 16v cloverleaf or a P4 which are rare as rare gets. The problem with old, rare and italian is they make very few parts for them new, i.e replacement parts. I Bought a P4 four years ago for £900, I have just sold it as a work in progress with allsorts done. Performance parts are hard to find and expensive as they make few of them.

But i must not put you off, The P4 is an amazing car, i fell in love with her and spent several thousand pounds (baring in mind i did most of the work myself) over the years, from rall spec suspension too and LSD on the rear. They handle great. If you like being different like me you will love a P4. 137BHP and 960KG's they see off far more powerful and expensive cars.

I bought two other 33's too, simply for spares as they had rusted out. Just be prepared to have space too stock spare incase. they are not unreliable but are old. Handle great, sound great (throttle bodies and boxer engine)

Heres a few pis of mine:






Some other 33 pics




I have gained alot of knowledge of these cars over the years, specifically the P4 through other owners. Alfaowner.com is the best in the UK.check it out www.alfaowner.com

Please dont hesitate to ask any questions.good luck

[Mighty Flex]

mmmmmmm.

I think I am mad!

Thanks guys. A 8v golf gti came up for sale a few miles away, but insurance on that won't happen reasonably seeing as it's a 'performance' model. However, an Alfa 33 16v is fine apparently!

[Mighty Flex]

Ross Parker said:

Warning! the delta and 33 are very very rare. You would want the S3 33 1.7 16v cloverleaf or a P4 which are rare as rare gets. The problem with old, rare and italian is they make very few parts for them new, i.e replacement parts. I Bought a P4 four years ago for £900, I have just sold it as a work in progress with allsorts done. Performance parts are hard to find and expensive as they make few of them.

But i must not put you off, The P4 is an amazing car, i fell in love with her and spent several thousand pounds (baring in mind i did most of the work myself) over the years, from rall spec suspension too and LSD on the rear. They handle great. If you like being different like me you will love a P4. 137BHP and 960KG's they see off far more powerful and expensive cars.

I bought two other 33's too, simply for spares as they had rusted out. Just be prepared to have space too stock spare incase. they are not unreliable but are old. Handle great, sound great (throttle bodies and boxer engine)

Heres a few pis of mine:



I have gained alot of knowledge of these cars over the years, specifically the P4 through other owners. Alfaowner.com is the best in the UK.check it out www.alfaowner.com

Please dont hesitate to ask any questions.good luck

so apart from performance mods, how was it for costs? Were there any horrific and unwelcome bills?

Edited by Mighty Flex on Tuesday 8th February 10:17

[cramorra]

Both are very different cars but neither of them is a FIAT In drag
The Lancia though may be the slightly more sensible "option" as it has at least in 1.6 or 2 litre form an Engine which was very much used across the Fiat Lancia empire, so spares are more easy to come by and they are relativey (in a nonteutonic way) bullet proof - if you warm them up and keep an eye on the fluid levels, that is.
They are not slow and sound sporty (but no comparison to the Alfa, though), especially with an ABARTH or Supersprint exhaust.
Most importantly, if you want to work on them youself they are not boxers, so you do not have to take the engine out if you want to change spark plugs and also do not need to grow and extra (italian) finger joint..... helps with payed maintainance as well me thinks
Both cars can be fun to drive and in their days were affordable motoring (in non turbo or QV form)ope this helps, They both have some form of zink protection, so are not the typical Italian Rust buckets of the 70s, but they have 20 salty winters on them so make sure the metal is firm all round

[Mighty Flex]

cramorra said:

Both are very different cars but neither of them is a FIAT In drag
The Lancia though may be the slightly more sensible "option" as it has at least in 1.6 or 2 litre form an Engine which was very much used across the Fiat Lancia empire, so spares are more easy to come by and they are relativey (in a nonteutonic way) bullet proof - if you warm them up and keep an eye on the fluid levels, that is.
They are not slow and sound sporty (but no comparison to the Alfa, though), especially with an ABARTH or Supersprint exhaust.
Most importantly, if you want to work on them youself they are not boxers, so you do not have to take the engine out if you want to change spark plugs and also do not need to grow and extra (italian) finger joint..... helps with payed maintainance as well me thinks
Both cars can be fun to drive and in their days were affordable motoring (in non turbo or QV form)ope this helps, They both have some form of zink protection, so are not the typical Italian Rust buckets of the 70s, but they have 20 salty winters on them so make sure the metal is firm all round

This bit is a point that scares me about the 33.
Slightly OT: My father has a Lancia Flavia, and everything the engine is hidden under a mess of plumbing. I actually came across a picture of it from 1985 taken by the previous owner when he got the car. Described as looking like the "remains of a washing machine".


The 33 is a tidier set up, if possibly a bit more cramped, but I do see the possible downsides.