156 1.8TS vs. 2.4JTD
Discussion
I think I may have finally shown my O/H the light....she's agreed to consider a 156 as our family transport. Stipulations are that it's an estate, must have skirts and teledials (so a Veloce basically) and ideally be black, but is open to suggestions. The Recoro cloth interior is also prefered, as my V6 had Momo leather which didn't seem very supportive under the thigh (could just be a worn seat?)
Biggest must-have is that it can't be more pricey to run than our MG ZS 1.8, which is proving to be getting a little small for a growing family.
I've had an early 2.5 V6 before and I'm aware of most of the things to look for. Our search would be down to either a 1.8TS or a 2.4JTD. The 1.6TS is a bit too gutless (my dad had one) and the 2.0TS a bit too juicy (I believe?) V6 is a definate no no sadly!
I'm told the 1.8TS is the best all-rounder in the petrol line up, but being sensible a diesel would be the obvious answer. Thing is, with diesel costing near £1.50 a litre anytime soon, will a 40mpg JTD actually prove to be cheaper to run than a 35mpg 1.8TS? Are those expected economy figures realistic too? True the JTD might be cheaper to tax is it's post-2001, but the TS would be easier to work on....to the point I'd happily tackle a clutch or cambelt on it. The JTD looks like a right pig in comparison. But then do they require as much work in general?
Interested to hear from owners really. Our MG is cheap to insure and pulls in 35mpg in combined driving. It's also very easy to work on and lack of power aside, fun to drive. If I end up with an Alfa that she thinks is worse, my knackers will end up in a vice.
Your thoughts?
Biggest must-have is that it can't be more pricey to run than our MG ZS 1.8, which is proving to be getting a little small for a growing family.
I've had an early 2.5 V6 before and I'm aware of most of the things to look for. Our search would be down to either a 1.8TS or a 2.4JTD. The 1.6TS is a bit too gutless (my dad had one) and the 2.0TS a bit too juicy (I believe?) V6 is a definate no no sadly!
I'm told the 1.8TS is the best all-rounder in the petrol line up, but being sensible a diesel would be the obvious answer. Thing is, with diesel costing near £1.50 a litre anytime soon, will a 40mpg JTD actually prove to be cheaper to run than a 35mpg 1.8TS? Are those expected economy figures realistic too? True the JTD might be cheaper to tax is it's post-2001, but the TS would be easier to work on....to the point I'd happily tackle a clutch or cambelt on it. The JTD looks like a right pig in comparison. But then do they require as much work in general?
Interested to hear from owners really. Our MG is cheap to insure and pulls in 35mpg in combined driving. It's also very easy to work on and lack of power aside, fun to drive. If I end up with an Alfa that she thinks is worse, my knackers will end up in a vice.
Your thoughts?
The other big issues with the diesels are maintenence. The standard 156 bits are all the same, so the bushes, wishbones, MAF etc. BUT my 2001 2.4 has just had to have a fortune spent on it, all down to it being diesel... High pressure fuel pump is the biggy at nearly a £1000 on its own.... and a cambelt off job...
The 2.4 will be a lot faster than the 1.8, return more MPG, but things like EGR commonly get stuck open, killing all power... blank it or replace/clean it - Glowplugs are a bit of a pain to do (if the light flashes after the ingine is running, they will need doing)... the crank sensor are prone but £20 and 20 minutes work....they will remap nicely to 180-190bhp with more torque than a 3.2 GTA and consumption should slightly improve on normal driving (mine is booked in for 2 weeks time!)....
Overall I love my JTD, is even sounds very nice with an open cone air filter, none of the normal clatter like you get on a 4 pot diesel as they are 5 pot...
Get over on www.alfaowner.com and have a read about on there....
Good luck whatever way you go!
The 2.4 will be a lot faster than the 1.8, return more MPG, but things like EGR commonly get stuck open, killing all power... blank it or replace/clean it - Glowplugs are a bit of a pain to do (if the light flashes after the ingine is running, they will need doing)... the crank sensor are prone but £20 and 20 minutes work....they will remap nicely to 180-190bhp with more torque than a 3.2 GTA and consumption should slightly improve on normal driving (mine is booked in for 2 weeks time!)....
Overall I love my JTD, is even sounds very nice with an open cone air filter, none of the normal clatter like you get on a 4 pot diesel as they are 5 pot...
Get over on www.alfaowner.com and have a read about on there....
Good luck whatever way you go!
Edited by Reedy156 on Friday 15th April 16:15
Expect nearer 42-44 mpg from the 2.4 JTD, and dream on at getting anywhere near 35 from the 1.8! I did the figures on these when I was looking and went for the diesel as the running costs (inc cam belt and various common failings) came out very slightly favouring the diesel. It was a pretty close run thing though so unless you're intending on putting lots of miles on the beast frankly you may as well get the 1.8. The handling is certainly nicer with the lighter cars - the 2.4 is pretty nose heavy.
I bought a 'shed' 156 2.4JTD saloon 2000W reg the other week for £850. It has done 144k and had 5 previous owners. It drives well enough and has MOT until Jan 2012 and 4 mths tax.
I love the engine power and sound. The car handles very well and i don't mind the firm suspension. It has a full black momo leather interior. However, being a bit of an old man now (40) the drivers seat gives me a bit of backache which is annoying. The car returned 43mpg on a long motorway run the other day. The engine loves to rev, very undiesel like.
My dilemna is what to do with the seat and have looked at a replacement but i am getting used to it having played around with the settings. I have given the car a full service and have some undcerbody rust and both front lower suspension arms to do. Car feels good for it's miles though and has probably spent a lot of time on the motorway. The main thing i like is that it makes you feel very special. I look forward to getting in it. All the major dials/controls facing the driver are great!
My advice would be to look at and drive both diesel and petrol cars and go for one in as good a condition as possible (not the route i have taken i might add!) They are cheap cars now. If the car needs a lot of maintenance or repairs then this will easily wipe out any gains in fuel consumption.
I love the engine power and sound. The car handles very well and i don't mind the firm suspension. It has a full black momo leather interior. However, being a bit of an old man now (40) the drivers seat gives me a bit of backache which is annoying. The car returned 43mpg on a long motorway run the other day. The engine loves to rev, very undiesel like.
My dilemna is what to do with the seat and have looked at a replacement but i am getting used to it having played around with the settings. I have given the car a full service and have some undcerbody rust and both front lower suspension arms to do. Car feels good for it's miles though and has probably spent a lot of time on the motorway. The main thing i like is that it makes you feel very special. I look forward to getting in it. All the major dials/controls facing the driver are great!
My advice would be to look at and drive both diesel and petrol cars and go for one in as good a condition as possible (not the route i have taken i might add!) They are cheap cars now. If the car needs a lot of maintenance or repairs then this will easily wipe out any gains in fuel consumption.
I had a late (facelift) 156 SW, with the 2.4 20V JTD engine. Was a black Veloce, and the first owner specced the electric leather Recaros too. It was great - those 5-cyl diesels sounds great as diesels go, and they're on 72k cambelt changes rather than 32k on the TS.
Running costs here:
http://pistonheads.com/members/showcar.asp?carId=5...
Only non-service stuff was a split hose, handbrake cables and front wishbones (which are practically a consumable on 156s).
Averaged 43mpg in mixed driving - plenty of London traffic plus motorway miles. It's from an era when combined mpg figures were perfectly achievable, in comparison my Civic on the same mix gets about 46, but claimed combined is 55!
I wouldn't go for a Veloce again though - it was way too hard and crashy, even on the 16" wheels.
Running costs here:
http://pistonheads.com/members/showcar.asp?carId=5...
Only non-service stuff was a split hose, handbrake cables and front wishbones (which are practically a consumable on 156s).
Averaged 43mpg in mixed driving - plenty of London traffic plus motorway miles. It's from an era when combined mpg figures were perfectly achievable, in comparison my Civic on the same mix gets about 46, but claimed combined is 55!
I wouldn't go for a Veloce again though - it was way too hard and crashy, even on the 16" wheels.
sjg said:
I had a late (facelift) 156 SW, with the 2.4 20V JTD engine. Was a black Veloce, and the first owner specced the electric leather Recaros too. It was great - those 5-cyl diesels sounds great as diesels go, and they're on 72k cambelt changes rather than 32k on the TS.
Running costs here:
http://pistonheads.com/members/showcar.asp?carId=5...
Only non-service stuff was a split hose, handbrake cables and front wishbones (which are practically a consumable on 156s).
Averaged 43mpg in mixed driving - plenty of London traffic plus motorway miles. It's from an era when combined mpg figures were perfectly achievable, in comparison my Civic on the same mix gets about 46, but claimed combined is 55!
I wouldn't go for a Veloce again though - it was way too hard and crashy, even on the 16" wheels.
Just out of interest, do all the later 156's have a crashy ride?Running costs here:
http://pistonheads.com/members/showcar.asp?carId=5...
Only non-service stuff was a split hose, handbrake cables and front wishbones (which are practically a consumable on 156s).
Averaged 43mpg in mixed driving - plenty of London traffic plus motorway miles. It's from an era when combined mpg figures were perfectly achievable, in comparison my Civic on the same mix gets about 46, but claimed combined is 55!
I wouldn't go for a Veloce again though - it was way too hard and crashy, even on the 16" wheels.
sjg said:
Only other 156s I've driven were early petrols used as loan cars by the Alfa specialist I used.
I have a feeling that with the heavy JTD engine the springs have to have a higher rate to cope, and that the Veloce sits lower making the problem even worse.
The JTD's have the same suspension and anti roll bars as the V6 to assist with the extra weight - it does have an aluminium top end though, so not as heavy as some other diesels - the handling (Veloce) is spot on and the heavier nose seems to help with lift off oversteer (I like!) when driving enthusiastically! I have a feeling that with the heavy JTD engine the springs have to have a higher rate to cope, and that the Veloce sits lower making the problem even worse.
Of the two I would still pick the 2.4 over the 1.8, just for the noise and performance, while still being relatively frugal... just make sure you have plenty of bills and history with it...
My 156 1.8TS ( 2000 CF2) does about 32 mpg average on decent roads/motorway commuting...best was 34 on a long run, recently getting 29 but I have just had a Cybox cat back stainless exhaust fitted and that encourages a heavy right foot !
I also considered changing to a 2.4JTD, but was put off by some stories of high repair costs. I have owned mine for 15 months, put 24,000 miles on in that time, and I really like the TS engine, so I would be reluctant to change now.
I also considered changing to a 2.4JTD, but was put off by some stories of high repair costs. I have owned mine for 15 months, put 24,000 miles on in that time, and I really like the TS engine, so I would be reluctant to change now.
Paul S4 said:
My 156 1.8TS ( 2000 CF2) does about 32 mpg average on decent roads/motorway commuting...best was 34 on a long run, recently getting 29 but I have just had a Cybox cat back stainless exhaust fitted and that encourages a heavy right foot !
I also considered changing to a 2.4JTD, but was put off by some stories of high repair costs. I have owned mine for 15 months, put 24,000 miles on in that time, and I really like the TS engine, so I would be reluctant to change now.
For balance my 2001 V6 averaged 29.00mpg over the last tank, and has averaged 27.something over the whole winter. I'm expecting that to rise my a couple of MPG now the warmer, lighter days are upon us. Double the length interval on V6 belt services too.I also considered changing to a 2.4JTD, but was put off by some stories of high repair costs. I have owned mine for 15 months, put 24,000 miles on in that time, and I really like the TS engine, so I would be reluctant to change now.
Thanks for all the replies and advice. I remember my V6 being pretty fair on fuel, and a friend's GTA happily does 30mpg + on long runs, even with a heavy foot. I remember my dads 1.6TS being worse than average though. If a 1.8 will struggle to hit 35mpg I can't really justify one either, although the potential repair costs over a diesel are favourable to it. Problem is I have to compare it to a 1.8 MG at the moment, not another Alfa. That does 35mpg every time, is a piece of piss to work on, fairly reliable and cheap for parts. It's just a bit cramped!
So from a driver's point of view, the 2.4JTD is favoured? I'm assuming the 10v is easier to work on than the 20v too? Saw a 2.4 engine bay earlier on ebay....cramped!
The diesel does appeal more to me, I suppose it may make sense aslong as all the homework is done first and it's got the history (which I never normally look for!) Cheaper tax on a later car too.
So is a 10v a safer bet than a 20v?
So from a driver's point of view, the 2.4JTD is favoured? I'm assuming the 10v is easier to work on than the 20v too? Saw a 2.4 engine bay earlier on ebay....cramped!
The diesel does appeal more to me, I suppose it may make sense aslong as all the homework is done first and it's got the history (which I never normally look for!) Cheaper tax on a later car too.
So is a 10v a safer bet than a 20v?
It is purely an age, budget and shape thing! The 10v until 2001 had 136bhp - then 140bhp till 2002 in the mini facelift 156 (same outside, facelift interior, with computer and digital climate) where it had 150bhp (very rare cars!) and then the "full" facelift 156 had the 20V in... it uses GM gearbox and drive-shafts amongst other bits and these are not as strong as the 10V ones...
Under the bonnet is a tad tight!... but you can get at the main service items easily enough - airbox is a twunt if the top bolts are rusted (as they inveriably are!), but other wise go for it - look after it - and you should be fine! make sure there are history and lots of receipts!
Under the bonnet is a tad tight!... but you can get at the main service items easily enough - airbox is a twunt if the top bolts are rusted (as they inveriably are!), but other wise go for it - look after it - and you should be fine! make sure there are history and lots of receipts!
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