County Court claim from parking firm
Discussion
If you know what you are doing, it's rare that these are successful in court, but it's not an easy process for the uninitiated. I deal with 15,000+ tickets per year, and have won a dozen or so cases at court in the last few years as part of my fleet management role.
Which company issued the ticket, and where did it happen?
Is the vehicle registered to you, or is it a company or lease vehicle?
Have you been in any correspondence with them at all so far?
Do they know who was driving at the time?
I can help guide you through the defence process with the answers to the above, if you are up for it, but it will likely hang over you for a few months
Which company issued the ticket, and where did it happen?
Is the vehicle registered to you, or is it a company or lease vehicle?
Have you been in any correspondence with them at all so far?
Do they know who was driving at the time?
I can help guide you through the defence process with the answers to the above, if you are up for it, but it will likely hang over you for a few months
S11Steve said:
If you know what you are doing, it's rare that these are successful in court, but it's not an easy process for the uninitiated. I deal with 15,000+ tickets per year, and have won a dozen or so cases at court in the last few years as part of my fleet management role.
Which company issued the ticket, and where did it happen? Euro Parking Services Ltd. In a residential car park for some flats.
Is the vehicle registered to you, or is it a company or lease vehicle? registered to my partner
Have you been in any correspondence with them at all so far? No
Do they know who was driving at the time? yes
I can help guide you through the defence process with the answers to the above, if you are up for it, but it will likely hang over you for a few months
thanksWhich company issued the ticket, and where did it happen? Euro Parking Services Ltd. In a residential car park for some flats.
Is the vehicle registered to you, or is it a company or lease vehicle? registered to my partner
Have you been in any correspondence with them at all so far? No
Do they know who was driving at the time? yes
I can help guide you through the defence process with the answers to the above, if you are up for it, but it will likely hang over you for a few months
jlee said:
thanks
Which company issued the ticket, and where did it happen? Euro Parking Services Ltd. In a residential car park for some flats.Euro can often be beaten on lack of compliance with POFA 2012 - the legislation that they are taking you to court on, however, as they know you were the driver, this may be a challenge.
As it was residential, the chances are that the signs on the wall are "forbidding contracts" - i.e. they don't actually form a valid contract. Many residential signs are like this.
Also, if you are a resident/leaseholder in the flat, there is a strong chance that your AST contract will overrule any sign on the wall - it's known as Primacy of Contract - your signed lease agreement, if it states that you are entitled to a parking space, will have more weight than a badly written sign on the wall.
Is the vehicle registered to you, or is it a company or lease vehicle? registered to my partner
Is the court claim in their name, or have they named you as the driver?
Have you been in any correspondence with them at all so far? No
Do they know who was driving at the time? yes
As above - how did they know you were driving, if there has been no correspondence, or is it no correspondence from you?
At this point, if you know you have a signed contract for the flat/house that mentions parking, this would be the best defence.
The compliance with POFA 2012 would be a challenge, as they will be going after you, the driver, for breach of contract, rather than the keeper. If they go after the keeper, it is easy enough to hang them with their own documentation fails.
It could still be challenged that the sign on the wall doesn't form a contract, therefore there is nothing to breach.
You have 14 days from the date of the court claim being issued to put in an "acknowledgement of Service" - this will then allow you a further 14 days to put in a defence.
Euro Parking are not renowned for court action, so it may well be worth compiling a list of defence points to submit, and then hope that EPS doesn't wish to proceed once they have read them.
Defence points to use - Signage is forbidding and doesn't form a contract.
Your AST states you are entitled to a apace as part of your agreement, with no mention of registering your vehicle or obtaining a permit for example.
Euro Parking have no right to bring the case - often they will be working on behalf of the managing agent, rather than the landowner. If the landowner hasn't given their express permission to operate and bring court cliams, then they are on a sticky wicket.
I'd also be challenging the value of the claim - the sign may say £100, but they are often bumped up to £200-£240 with spurious or unproven costs.
In your position, I would be giving it a reasonable shot, but then I have a bit of experience with this.
If you are up for a bit of a challenging learning curve and some research on Legal Beagles, Pepipoo and MSE, then give it a go, otherwise pay the £240 and it goes away.
Ok, so that is a very big swing in your favour.
They are holding the registered keeper liable for the actions of the driver, who the keeper is not obliged to identify.
In order to do that, their paperwork must comply with POFA 2012 - https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/ is an easy to read guide on this.
Look at the paperwork you have, and you should be able to pull out the bits they have failed on - check dates of sending, exact wording etc.
If you submit a reasonable defence, based on valid legal points, the chances are that they won't pursue this to a hearing.
Do a bit of google-fu on the points I've suggested, and for the sake of an eveing or two, you should be able to put together a list of points to submit online as a defence statement,
Make sure you do the acknowledgement of service asap though, and make a note of when the defence must be submitted. Too many people get this bit wrong, and sudden;y find themselves on the wrong end of a default judgement!
They are holding the registered keeper liable for the actions of the driver, who the keeper is not obliged to identify.
In order to do that, their paperwork must comply with POFA 2012 - https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/ is an easy to read guide on this.
Look at the paperwork you have, and you should be able to pull out the bits they have failed on - check dates of sending, exact wording etc.
If you submit a reasonable defence, based on valid legal points, the chances are that they won't pursue this to a hearing.
Do a bit of google-fu on the points I've suggested, and for the sake of an eveing or two, you should be able to put together a list of points to submit online as a defence statement,
Make sure you do the acknowledgement of service asap though, and make a note of when the defence must be submitted. Too many people get this bit wrong, and sudden;y find themselves on the wrong end of a default judgement!
Olivergt said:
MKnight702 said:
jlee said:
Sorry should of made clear, no they dont know I was the driver, they have just sent it to the registered keeper.
We do now, thanks!I have been known to occasionally name one of those two operators in an unrelated thread just out of mischievousness! It's rarely a wise move to google yourself.
Squiddly Diddly said:
What is the alleged contravention?
As it is residential, I'd hazard an educated guess at failing to display a permit, but the actual breach is somewhat irrelevant if a) the signage doesn't form a contract that can be breached, and
b) the paperwork doesn't comply with the law to hold the keeper liable.
Squiddly Diddly said:
Is the contravention a secret or something?
Not necessarily in the majority of cases, if the signage doesn't form a contract, then even if it says you must not wear red trousers at weekends, it can not be enforced.The only time I've mentioned the parking contravention in a defence or an appeal is in situations where a ticket was issued for not displaying a permit - the evidence photo showed the entire car was 3 inches deep in snow, another where our vehicle was in a queue of traffic waiting to get through a barrier and was ticked for stopping and another where we were being taken to court despite me pointing out that the car in the photograph wasn't registered with the DVLA until 3 weeks after the alleged contravention...
jlee
LIsten to Steve
Also have a good look at section 9 and go through it with a fine tooth comb.note the word MUST, the PPC has to do everything to the letter to make this valid
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedul...
One point is sometimes they tell/ask you to advise them who the driver was...BUT it does state thay have to INVITE you to do that, if the word invite is missing then thats the whole lot falling down
Some on here will get all uppitty about this and say you should pay it,and i agree but when the PPC cant be arsed about doing it correctly according to the law, then we should have no qualms about kicking them in the balls
As long as you dont say who the driver is that is a good start
LIsten to Steve
Also have a good look at section 9 and go through it with a fine tooth comb.note the word MUST, the PPC has to do everything to the letter to make this valid
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedul...
One point is sometimes they tell/ask you to advise them who the driver was...BUT it does state thay have to INVITE you to do that, if the word invite is missing then thats the whole lot falling down
Some on here will get all uppitty about this and say you should pay it,and i agree but when the PPC cant be arsed about doing it correctly according to the law, then we should have no qualms about kicking them in the balls
As long as you dont say who the driver is that is a good start
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