A4 tdi 170 - misbehaving/ oil light/ main dealer dilema
Discussion
Got AN 18 month old A4 tdi with suspected blown motor - I am looking for advice from the more mechanically minded as to how much damage may have been done and what the suitable remedy may be. I am chasing my garage for a response on what they are going to do about it but am preparing for a battle to get them to do the right thing...
The situation goes like this:
Car is 18 months old, 18k on the clock and has driven faultlessly returning 38.5mpg average
Car serviced as required by on board computer last Monday - first and only service from new. On picking the car up the engine was noticably sluggish and more noisy than the equivalent new shape A4 loan car that I had been driving that day. MPG down to 27 - 33 range. Car driven 160 miles since service and on way to work car started to make a noise, which above the car radio sounded like the heater motor was on and vents full of leaves - sort of low whoosh/chattery mechanical noise.
Thoughts of something being dragged under the car/ dragging undertray/ drive belts comming off type noises developed into something more mechanical sounding with rough running/ vibration - clattering type tappetty noise followed by oil pressure light - at which I turned the engine off- all within 200yds at max 30mph.
Thoughts of whether the garage put oil in the engine/ cambelt issue/ oil pump failure come to mind but as far as I can only assume they have screwed up when they did the service.
I have asked that they come back with a full report on the fault and their proposed remedy - prior to them repairing the car.
If I am not satisfied I have already stated that I may get an inspection undertaken if not convinced
They have had the car since this morning and was hoping they would call to at least acknowledge that the car was now with them with an indication of what they would do and by when - nothing heard yet.Just to add insult to injury Audi assist have dropped me a kia s
tbox which I think is a little short of the mark after I was assured I would get an equivalent car of another A4
Any guidance from a mechanical or practical perspective appreciated.....
The situation goes like this:
Car is 18 months old, 18k on the clock and has driven faultlessly returning 38.5mpg average
Car serviced as required by on board computer last Monday - first and only service from new. On picking the car up the engine was noticably sluggish and more noisy than the equivalent new shape A4 loan car that I had been driving that day. MPG down to 27 - 33 range. Car driven 160 miles since service and on way to work car started to make a noise, which above the car radio sounded like the heater motor was on and vents full of leaves - sort of low whoosh/chattery mechanical noise.
Thoughts of something being dragged under the car/ dragging undertray/ drive belts comming off type noises developed into something more mechanical sounding with rough running/ vibration - clattering type tappetty noise followed by oil pressure light - at which I turned the engine off- all within 200yds at max 30mph.
Thoughts of whether the garage put oil in the engine/ cambelt issue/ oil pump failure come to mind but as far as I can only assume they have screwed up when they did the service.
I have asked that they come back with a full report on the fault and their proposed remedy - prior to them repairing the car.
If I am not satisfied I have already stated that I may get an inspection undertaken if not convinced
They have had the car since this morning and was hoping they would call to at least acknowledge that the car was now with them with an indication of what they would do and by when - nothing heard yet.Just to add insult to injury Audi assist have dropped me a kia s
tbox which I think is a little short of the mark after I was assured I would get an equivalent car of another A4Any guidance from a mechanical or practical perspective appreciated.....
18months old and 18K Its in waranty, what ever it is, will be fixed for free. I done a few engines on those cars, oil pump failier, wipes out the engine and the turbo pretty quickly (say 30secs from loss of oil pressure) turbos when they fail make blower motor like noises. Did the oil light come on.
The sluggishness on return of the car post service, could be due to a software update, did they do any recalls on the car while it was in?
If they made an error in service, loose sump plug/filter or somthing, you would see oil everywhere. Did it drop its oil when the noise occurred.?? regardless will be a free repair for you.
I'm not sure how you go about getting the car they gave you changed, but everytime one of our customers uses an audi assist car, it is an audi. So when the dealer finally call you to give you a clue as to whats up, ask them, and point out how upset you are to be in this situation and they should sort it out quickly. If its more than a day I would ring the service dept for an update.
In the dealers deffence, they may not be ablt to look at the car right away, if you try to imagine there is work booked in for every hour of the day a good 3 days or so in advance, and then a few cars turn up on recovery trucks, it can take 2 or 3 days to get them in and looked at. Sounds like your may need striping down a fair bit to see whats up as well.
Hope this helps.
Paul , Audi dealer tech.
The sluggishness on return of the car post service, could be due to a software update, did they do any recalls on the car while it was in?
If they made an error in service, loose sump plug/filter or somthing, you would see oil everywhere. Did it drop its oil when the noise occurred.?? regardless will be a free repair for you.
I'm not sure how you go about getting the car they gave you changed, but everytime one of our customers uses an audi assist car, it is an audi. So when the dealer finally call you to give you a clue as to whats up, ask them, and point out how upset you are to be in this situation and they should sort it out quickly. If its more than a day I would ring the service dept for an update.
In the dealers deffence, they may not be ablt to look at the car right away, if you try to imagine there is work booked in for every hour of the day a good 3 days or so in advance, and then a few cars turn up on recovery trucks, it can take 2 or 3 days to get them in and looked at. Sounds like your may need striping down a fair bit to see whats up as well.
Hope this helps.
Paul , Audi dealer tech.
Thanks Paul
I recognise the stuff about the whooshing noise. No oil was dropped as far I I am aware and I dipped the engine but because the dipstick is black and oil black and had no way of wiping it properly it was difficult to see what the level was - but sure there was oil in there.
I have not received a response to 2 e-mails and no call back from the garage - no joy from Customer Services but did get hold of a mechanic who said they were going to take the sump off and take a look...whatever that means - at least I now know where my car is but only by ringing up .
S**t happens with cars.. its how Poole Audi are dealing with it is the main issue...I can only assume they are ignoring the issue...patch it up and give me back a car with compromised mechanicals that will fail later...outside of warranty. What else can I assume having had not one call from them.
Not impressed and about to lose it with them - one more try on the phone and then its a trip up there and park myself somewhere conspicuous until they will talk to me about it.
Having owned many cars - amongst which I have owned 5 Audi's I have never been treated so badly.
I am sure that there are many great garages out there but I feel very let down by this one.
I am considering going to Audi UK if I dont get some kind of response by the end of the day.
Oops - starting to rant!
Thanks for info - much appreciated
I recognise the stuff about the whooshing noise. No oil was dropped as far I I am aware and I dipped the engine but because the dipstick is black and oil black and had no way of wiping it properly it was difficult to see what the level was - but sure there was oil in there.
I have not received a response to 2 e-mails and no call back from the garage - no joy from Customer Services but did get hold of a mechanic who said they were going to take the sump off and take a look...whatever that means - at least I now know where my car is but only by ringing up .
S**t happens with cars.. its how Poole Audi are dealing with it is the main issue...I can only assume they are ignoring the issue...patch it up and give me back a car with compromised mechanicals that will fail later...outside of warranty. What else can I assume having had not one call from them.
Not impressed and about to lose it with them - one more try on the phone and then its a trip up there and park myself somewhere conspicuous until they will talk to me about it.
Having owned many cars - amongst which I have owned 5 Audi's I have never been treated so badly.
I am sure that there are many great garages out there but I feel very let down by this one.
I am considering going to Audi UK if I dont get some kind of response by the end of the day.
Oops - starting to rant!
Thanks for info - much appreciated
Yeah there not doing much to keep you informed. It takes about 3 hours just to get the sump off. And then you cant see much. I would suggest they will have to remove the counter balance shaft assembly, which has the oil pump attached to it, to see whats wrong. So thats like 6 hours after they get it in. And I would doubt weather they had time to do that yet.
I would ring back before end of play today, ask to speak to the service manager. Explain to him/her your concerns and I'm sure they will do all they can for you, sounds like your not getting to speak to the right person, technician/mechanics speaking to customers is always a last resort at our place. I would mention in particular your concerns of the car being sort of bodged with the likely hood of later failure. While its under warranty its easy for the dealer to blanket or belt and braces any repairs, so if they were unsure weather to replace or repair the engine, your concerns would make them almost certainly replace it. It wont be a big deal for them.
If I was working on it, and it had no oil pressure I would replace the engine and turbo. I have done so to 4 or 5 2.0TDI's in th elast 2 years.
From a mechanics point of view, if one of our service advisers rang me on the workshop phone and said, what you found on Mr X's car he's getting the arse. I'd be like, Its got no oil pressure I cant see why I'm still looking, it will be tomorrow before I know. Then another day or 2 to order parts, so he probably wont have it back by the weekend. Weather they decided to forward this information to customer X is down to them. I get trained to fix cars, they get trained to deal with customers.
Sound like your local Audi centre could do with a little customer service training.
Out of interest, did they do any recalls when the car was service?? If so do you know the number 13D9 26E4 or similar.
I would ring back before end of play today, ask to speak to the service manager. Explain to him/her your concerns and I'm sure they will do all they can for you, sounds like your not getting to speak to the right person, technician/mechanics speaking to customers is always a last resort at our place. I would mention in particular your concerns of the car being sort of bodged with the likely hood of later failure. While its under warranty its easy for the dealer to blanket or belt and braces any repairs, so if they were unsure weather to replace or repair the engine, your concerns would make them almost certainly replace it. It wont be a big deal for them.
If I was working on it, and it had no oil pressure I would replace the engine and turbo. I have done so to 4 or 5 2.0TDI's in th elast 2 years.
From a mechanics point of view, if one of our service advisers rang me on the workshop phone and said, what you found on Mr X's car he's getting the arse. I'd be like, Its got no oil pressure I cant see why I'm still looking, it will be tomorrow before I know. Then another day or 2 to order parts, so he probably wont have it back by the weekend. Weather they decided to forward this information to customer X is down to them. I get trained to fix cars, they get trained to deal with customers.
Sound like your local Audi centre could do with a little customer service training.
Out of interest, did they do any recalls when the car was service?? If so do you know the number 13D9 26E4 or similar.
Thanks for thoughts
Service manager just rang back - said that the oil pump drive has failed...but unlikely to be any damage to the engine - but no worries as parts are on order and they will fit and then check the engine over when they have it up and running - before they drop it back - it will be ok sir.
They dont know why the oil pump drive has failed
They dont know therefore what to order
They dont know why the car was running low mpg/ rough/ gutless after the service - we will take a look sir etc....It did have a remap and a couple of other bits done but as the service book is with the car.....
I appreciate that they may not have had tikme to fully diagnose the problem but the last thing I want is a load of flannel. I have told them to drop me a decent car and btake their time and get it right but when it come to it I dont know how I will know whether the work has adressed the issue, the consequential damage and potential issues ahead.
Should I be getting an expert opinion and if so who?
I want to know if their repair is satisfactory but have insufficient knowledge to judge the situation. Only assured repair is a new motor and turbo?
Sounds like I am going to get a botched job......not satisfied
They have said they will try and get me a better car so watch this space
Service manager just rang back - said that the oil pump drive has failed...but unlikely to be any damage to the engine - but no worries as parts are on order and they will fit and then check the engine over when they have it up and running - before they drop it back - it will be ok sir.
They dont know why the oil pump drive has failed
They dont know therefore what to order
They dont know why the car was running low mpg/ rough/ gutless after the service - we will take a look sir etc....It did have a remap and a couple of other bits done but as the service book is with the car.....
I appreciate that they may not have had tikme to fully diagnose the problem but the last thing I want is a load of flannel. I have told them to drop me a decent car and btake their time and get it right but when it come to it I dont know how I will know whether the work has adressed the issue, the consequential damage and potential issues ahead.
Should I be getting an expert opinion and if so who?
I want to know if their repair is satisfactory but have insufficient knowledge to judge the situation. Only assured repair is a new motor and turbo?
Sounds like I am going to get a botched job......not satisfied
They have said they will try and get me a better car so watch this space
Its a tricky one this. If they can see no evidence of engine damage, they may feel they cant claim for a new engine under warranty. And repairing the old one, is reasonable and not in anyway a bodge.
Depends how long was run with no oil pressure, really. Last one I did, the customer was 2 or 3 miles from us when the light came on so he drove it to us. By the time he arived turbo sounded terrable but engine its self sounded fine, it may have been ok, we could have put a new oil pump in it and a new turbo and it could have done many more trouble free miles. But we put a new engine in just to be sure. Waranty had no problem with the claim.
I would always press for new engine and new turbo, it is the only way you can guarantee no further issues. Its not a very nice job though, About 20hour work.
You may find when they get it properly striped down, they find morew wrong and end up putting an engine in any way.
As to why the oil pump drive failed, well they do that sometimes. Like I said I done a few, but each one has been a bit different.
!!IMPORTANT.!! One of the current recalls is to replace the gears that drive the oil pump/counter balance shaft, I have to wonder if they did this at your last service and did something wrong. I would be tempted to ask the question if you feel they not giving you the full story. I got a week off this week so dont have access to the numbers but I think the recall is 13D7.
Let me know how it goes.
Depends how long was run with no oil pressure, really. Last one I did, the customer was 2 or 3 miles from us when the light came on so he drove it to us. By the time he arived turbo sounded terrable but engine its self sounded fine, it may have been ok, we could have put a new oil pump in it and a new turbo and it could have done many more trouble free miles. But we put a new engine in just to be sure. Waranty had no problem with the claim.
I would always press for new engine and new turbo, it is the only way you can guarantee no further issues. Its not a very nice job though, About 20hour work.
You may find when they get it properly striped down, they find morew wrong and end up putting an engine in any way.
As to why the oil pump drive failed, well they do that sometimes. Like I said I done a few, but each one has been a bit different.
!!IMPORTANT.!! One of the current recalls is to replace the gears that drive the oil pump/counter balance shaft, I have to wonder if they did this at your last service and did something wrong. I would be tempted to ask the question if you feel they not giving you the full story. I got a week off this week so dont have access to the numbers but I think the recall is 13D7.
Let me know how it goes.
Tame Technician said:
Depends how long was run with no oil pressure, really. Last one I did, the customer was 2 or 3 miles from us when the light came on so he drove it to us. By the time he arived turbo sounded terrable but engine its self sounded fine, it may have been ok, we could have put a new oil pump in it and a new turbo and it could have done many more trouble free miles. But we put a new engine in just to be sure. Waranty had no problem with the claim.
I'm amazed that the owner admitted driving it with the oil light on and Audi still accepted the claim! Maybe the dealer didn't tell Audi?To the OP, you seem to be panicing a bit - the dealer will fix the car and it still has another 18mths of warranty, so plenty to time to know if there are other issues. I'd be somewhat concerned if it was near the end of warranty, but your car isn't.
I was wondering whether someone could throw some light on a couple of recall codes that came up in our first longlife service on our A4 2.0 TDi Avant 170 Technik Quattro
These codes are 91i4 & 13E6, I understand from the dealers notes that they are an oil low warning light on dash coming on without reason & an MMI screen displaying fault / malfunction without reason.
Although, neither my wife nor I have ever seen the oil low warning light come on or the MMI screen displaying a fault. It seems a little strange that these would show up on a service log and yet not to our eyes on the screen. Thankfully, we haven't had any problems with the car, and hope that it stays that way.
These codes are 91i4 & 13E6, I understand from the dealers notes that they are an oil low warning light on dash coming on without reason & an MMI screen displaying fault / malfunction without reason.
Although, neither my wife nor I have ever seen the oil low warning light come on or the MMI screen displaying a fault. It seems a little strange that these would show up on a service log and yet not to our eyes on the screen. Thankfully, we haven't had any problems with the car, and hope that it stays that way.
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