Manual gearboxes

[Ecosseven]

As more and more cars are being offered with double clutch gearboxes do you think the days of the manual gearbox are numbered? I sincerely hope not as I have never owned a car with less than three pedals and would really miss the involvement. A slick manual ‘box, particularly in a sports car is great fun.

[Baryonyx]

One day they'll be considered a niche item no doubt and will come on a minority of cars.

[gowmonster]

I think it depends on how cheaply they can be produced, I think poverty spec cars will still have manual boxes and probably manual window winders to save weight

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/dual-clutch-transmis...

[Kiltox]

gowmonster said:

I think poverty spec cars will still have manual boxes and probably manual window winders to save weight

Oi - electric windows here

..... in all seriousness, it all boils down to fuel efficiency / emmissions. With the UK Government with help from the EU hell bent on taxing anything that moves, if they're more efficient then they will become the standard. Just like more idiots people are buying diesels (until they tax the st out of that too)

Personally I don't like these new double clutch autos because in later life they are very expensive to repair.

[alock]

Kiltox said:

Oi - electric windows here

..... in all seriousness, it all boils down to fuel efficiency / emmissions. With the UK Government with help from the EU hell bent on taxing anything that moves, if they're more efficient then they will become the standard. Just like more idiots people are buying diesels (until they tax the st out of that too)

Personally I don't like these new double clutch autos because in later life they are very expensive to repair.

But the current test is unfair as all autos can decide which gear they want at any time. A manual has defined shift points. If they change the test, all bets are off as it could favour anything.

[Kiltox]

alock said:

But the current test is unfair as all autos can decide which gear they want at any time. A manual has defined shift points. If they change the test, all bets are off as it could favour anything.

Isn't that why we have these daft "eco-shift" indicators on manuals now? Doesn't always come on at the same time.

Although probably would in test conditions

[thinfourth2]

If we moved to taking a CO2 of a car over its entire life I bet alot of this eco junk would vanish.

Yes DSG boxes might be great on a CO2 test but kind of defeats the whole eco bit if you need to bin the car after 6 years due to something expensive having a major hissy fit

[Kiltox]

thinfourth2 said:

Yes DSG boxes might be great on a CO2 test but kind of defeats the whole eco bit if you need to bin the car after 6 years due to something expensive having a major hissy fit

Unfortunately the Government are causing "the whole eco bit" to become tax avoidance.

[LeoSayer]

Autos won't overtake manuals as long as they cost £1200+ more to buy.

[Kiltox]

LeoSayer said:

Autos won't overtake manuals as long as they cost £1200+ more to buy.

Is there the same premium for auto in the US?

[CraigyMc]

Kiltox said:

LeoSayer said:

Autos won't overtake manuals as long as they cost £1200+ more to buy.

Is there the same premium for auto in the US?

Usually there's a premium for a manual box over there.

The fact that manual boxes are seen as an "enthusiast" thing is the reason why the US is the only place that got a manual box on the E60 BMW M5...

C

[Baryonyx]

BMW obviously don't have a clue.

[D34NO87]

LeoSayer said:

Autos won't overtake manuals as long as they cost £1200+ more to buy.

What if you don't get any choice? The new Fabia VRS and some VWs and Audis are only available with these stupid DSG gearboxes.

I thought I wanted an Auto, then I had a A4 auto and have driven a few autos now and I only ever want a manual car now.
The other thing that concerns me is these DSGs and other double clutch auto boxes with fancy names are all good now but what happens when the repair bill is more than the car is worth in 5,6,7......years time?

[Engineer1]

Look at your average poverty spec model now days, I bet it has the wiring for atleast 50% of the upgrades already there, or disabled in the software. Auto could become standard, I would be interested to know whether an Autobox would be more expensive than a Manual if the order quantities where reversed.

I'm sure I've read somewhere on here that manual windows cost more than electric now days.

[CraigyMc]

Baryonyx said:

BMW obviously don't have a clue.

Confused by this statment. They reacted to customer demands with the US manual box option (it wasn't a launch option - they did it halfway through the models' life)

[Ten Ninety]

The current situation strikes me as a little perverse; there is a persuasive argument for a proper clutch change on a 'sports' car that's intended for enthusiasts, yet such cars are increasingly only available with clutchless transmissions. However, on 'normal' cars where there is, these days, precious little case at all for a manual box it's still sometimes difficult to get the spec you want with a clutchless change.

Whilst it might be heresy on this particular site to say it... I'd be very happy to see the end of the manual box as the 'default' option on non-enthusiast cars.

[Martin_Hx]

Took mine for its first real hoon for over 6 months, gearbox got well used and i loved every minute of it !

If i had been in an auto it would have probably started a hoon then rapidly declined into a drive

[Kiltox]

Ten Ninety said:

Whilst it might be heresy on this particular site to say it... I'd be very happy to see the end of the manual box as the 'default' option on non-enthusiast cars.

I wouldn't like to see there being a price premium for manual though - automatic has disadvantages no matter which system is fitted.

Conventional automatics tend to mean the car is less fuel efficient which isn't great for a non-enthusiast car and DSG is expensive when it blows up.

[RB Will]

I'm undecided on the manual vs sporty auto thing as yet. All my cars are manual and I do enjoy being able to do as I wish with the gears but it can be a faff at times especially if it is a road/ track you don't know.

I was at a track session on Friday and got chatting to a guy with a GTR and he was just heaping praise on the gearbox in it. He was saying that it makes the driving much better for him as it makes changes smoother and quicker than he ever could and with none of the stress of heel toe or taking a hand off the wheel.

So I can see the advantages to both sides of driving. It is nice for people to be able to have the choice but I feel the auto option is always going to be the quicker and easier option.

One thing I wonder is why it is all H pattern gears in cars. Why no sequential boxes like race cars and bikes have?

[Baryonyx]

CraigyMc said:

Confused by this statment. They reacted to customer demands with the US manual box option (it wasn't a launch option - they did it halfway through the models' life)

Because manual should be the standard in the M5, and should at least be offered as an option everywhere.