How hard can it be......

[jonesy80]

Right last week I took the s2 for its first mot in my ownership and it failed ....quite badly. Now the garage quoted me £1500 to do all the work but I have decided to do itmyself and now need to know how hard this is going to be. List of jobs as follows:

1. Lower steering UJ - I already did the upper one and that was quite straightfoward (apart from access) is there any reason the lower UJ should be any more difficult?

2. Upper ball joint - this is the bit I'm most worried about. Do I need a splitter or can I bodge it apart. How hard is it to install the new one?

3. New rear shocks - never changed them on a car before but have changed many bike shocks (did one last weekend) the car ones look basically the same to me??

4. Handbrake efficiency - garage said they would need to investigate what was wrong and therefore quoted worst case to replace everything. Haven't had them wart yet but I'm guessing shoes and worn out springs are mostlikely problems?

Any tips on anything to look out for from people have done these jobs before would be most welcome.

[tvrgit]

1. Lower steering UJ - it's a bit more fiddly to get to, but same process.

2. Upper ball joint - there is a "how to" on my web site at http://www.tvrgit.com - look at the "how to" menu on the left. You will need a splitter to get the joint apart - Halfords do them for just over a tenner. You WON'T be able to use the nice gentle screw-in ones - the nut is recessed inside a conical adaptor thingy.

Make sure you note where all the shims go, and the EXACT position of the joint, the shims and the two bolts through the upper wishbone. You should still have the front geometry checked after the job - camber, castor and to-in can all be affected by this job.

3. New rear shocks - main problem is likely to be getting the bolts out of the bushes, if they haven't been greased before assembly. They can rust into the bushes and then it's hacksaw time!

4. Handbrake efficiency - could be the handbrake cable siezing. If it's shoes and wheel cylinders, there's another "how to" on my web site! (That was my first "how to" article.... ah the memories...)

[Le TVR]

Mine used to regularly fail on handbrake efficiency.
I then started cleaning all the dust and residue out of the drums just before the test and it hasn't failed since.

[CTE]

£1500-00!!

I don`t fancy doing the lower steering joint, largely because its a bit fiddly to get at, but the rest of its simple enough, and with the right tools canot be more than a couple of hours work at most. I would`nt bother with a ball joint splitter, just undo the nut so it is flush with the end of the thread, and give it a belt with a hammer. Make a not of where the ball housing is on the wishbone, and the position of the two fixing bolts, and then reassemple with a new joint (I think they are from a Transit?). It may not be perfectly realighned, but I doubt you will notice the difference.
As for the rear brakes, they are simple drum brakes, so just check the cable movement, shoes,and while you are at it get a bit of emery and scrub round the inside of the drum. Shock absorber...two bolts and a spring compressor.

£1500-00!!...someone saw you coming.

[tvrgit]

CTE said:

I don`t fancy doing the lower steering joint, largely because its a bit fiddly to get at, but the rest of its simple enough, and with the right tools canot be more than a couple of hours work at most. I would`nt bother with a ball joint splitter, just undo the nut so it is flush with the end of the thread, and give it a belt with a hammer.

It's the upper ball joint and it's recessed in a conical adaptor. Hammer access not easy. And in any case, whacking the end with a hammer doesn't always work (usually doesn't IME) - you have to loosen the taper not just whack it out.

CTE said:

Make a not of where the ball housing is on the wishbone, and the position of the two fixing bolts, and then reassemple with a new joint (I think they are from a Transit?).

The upper joint is from a Saab 900, the lower one (if I am reading the OP wrong) is from a Fiat 124 or Lada 1500. There have been a number of threads about getting exactly the correct part in either case - pattern ones do not always fit.

CTE said:

£1500-00!!...someone saw you coming.

Too right! steering joint is about £30, upper suspension joint about £12, brake shoes around the same, handbrake cable - don't know never needed one, but around £40 I think, new shock absorbers about £80 each for AVOS (which is likely what a garage would fit unless you ask for better), - total parts prices about £250.

Even (generously) allowing 8 hours to do the job, that's about £150 per hour for labour!

[ketvrin]

A - London Prices for Labour ?
B - New Rear Shock Absorbers ? if they are buying a set of front and rears (you wouldnt buy just rears would you ?) it'll cost them £500
C - Top Ball joints say £20 per side tops
D - Steering UJ - say £25 tops
E - Brakes - Hmmm... say £25 again for pads etc, another £20 for cable at worst

so Parts should be around £100 plus cost of shock absorbers say £600 !

and the rest is labour:
2 hours would see all four shock absorbers changed (assuming bolts come out ?)
1 hour would see top ball joints replaced
1/2 hour for UJ
4 hours (being generous) to investigate and fix brakes
1.1/2 for umming and arring
= 9 hours ?

so thats £100 per hour...!!??

do it yourself mate

K

[ketvrin]

yer a much quicker typist than me Andrew

k

[tvrgit]

ketvrin said:

yer a much quicker typist than me Andrew

k

I think it was the adding-up then the long-division Kevin

[ketvrin]

tvrgit said:

I think it was the adding-up then the long-division Kevin

you could be right

anyway, the end result was the same... the estimate is too high and he would save loads doing it himself

theres loads of help on here if you get stuck anyway Jonesy... go for it.

K

[tvrgit]

Aye we got the same number - just different parts suppliers obviously!

It's when I read threads like this that I'm glad I learned how to do all this stuff all those years ago...

And as Kevin says, Jonesy we all had to start somewhere - go for it. After all.... how hard can it be?

[mep12345]

There is also a how to for most of this on my website www.gbsportscar.com including how to set up the camber aspect at home when you change the upper ball joint.

[phillpot]

tvrgit said:

CTE said:

I would`nt bother with a ball joint splitter, just undo the nut so it is flush with the end of the thread, nd give it a belt with a hammer.

It's the upper ball joint and it's recessed in a conical adaptor. Hammer access not easy. And in any case, whacking the end with a hammer doesn't always work (usually doesn't IME) - you have to loosen the taper not just whack it out.

You don't hit the end of the thread you hit the side of the casting it goes into, this momentarily distorts it and the taper splits.
One good whack with a decent sized hammer, tippy tap with a toffee hammer won't do it

[jonesy80]

Thanks for all the replies. As I didnt have a spare £1500 the decision to do it myself was pretty easy and I'll let you know how i get on.

Regarding the quote I don't think it was to unreasonable from a small garage (no tar experience) in central London they gave me a fully itemised quote but as they were quoting worst case the handbrake issue totalled £400 (think that was drums, shoes, cables, basically completely replacing everything both sides.

Shocks was quoted as £135 per side (they only quoted for the 2) and 3hrs labour @ £60 per hour so that was another £450.

I'm hoping that I'll do allthe wok myself for about £650 but that will be for changing all 4 shocks for GAZ items.

[tvrgit]

phillpot said:

You don't hit the end of the thread you hit the side of the casting it goes into, this momentarily distorts it and the taper splits.
One good whack with a decent sized hammer, tippy tap with a toffee hammer won't do it

I know that, but that's not what I read the OP proposing to do: he seemed to be talking about just beltoing it out.

Aaaaand - the top ball joint doesn't go into an arm - it's a conical adaptor and I think you could welt that till your arm fell off (your own arm, not the suspension arm) and it would make no difference...

[phillpot]

tvrgit said:

I know that,

Wasn't telling anyone in particular how to do it, just offering my "two 'penneth worth" !


.....and it worked fine for me

[Gerald-TVR]

jonesy80 said:

1. Lower steering UJ - I already did the upper one and that was quite straightfoward (apart from access) is there any reason the lower UJ should be any more difficult?

2. Upper ball joint - this is the bit I'm most worried about. Do I need a splitter or can I bodge it apart. How hard is it to install the new one?

3. New rear shocks - never changed them on a car before but have changed many bike shocks (did one last weekend) the car ones look basically the same to me??

4. Handbrake efficiency - garage said they would need to investigate what was wrong and therefore quoted worst case to replace everything. Haven't had them wart yet but I'm guessing shoes and worn out springs are mostlikely problems?

1. You ight have to knock a wedge into the clamp slightly after removing clampin bolt, they are available from TVR Car Parts or Ralley Design or if your interested i have a used one from an S I broke. It would need cleaning up and greasing etc but is in good nick otherwise.

2. Worst case senario remove the complete upright (inc hub etc) and take to your local garage and ask them to remove the ball joint. Thats what I did and it cost me a couple of pints.

3. Access is tight for the upper bolts and the bottom are probably corroded so hacksaw job. But not difficult.

4. Almost certainly all you would need is a complete clean up of handbrake mechanism and possibly replace brakeshoes. Again TVR Car Parts list new handbrake mechanisms or I have s/h ones from the car I broke including good shoes and if need be drums (but I doubt you would need those).

Norman

[mep12345]

jonesy80 said:

..... and 3hrs labour.......

For 4 bolts and ride height adjustment by the adjustable ring It wouldn't even take that long with the full geometry setup included

[jonesy80]

norman - thanks for the offer of parts. i will get the UJ from TVR car parts, will let you know on the brake shoes etc once I start having a look.

mep - don't be shocked at 3hrs - i reckon i'll take a lot longer than that :-D. We will soon see though I am going to make a start by trying to loosen all the bolts this weekend ahead of the shocks arriving.

Of course this means I now have to enter into the debate about what rate springs to buy - a hot topc on here I know!

[jonesy80]

Hi All

Thought I would post an update to let you all know how I got on working on the car.

1. Shock Absorbers

Firstly thanks to Absolutely Shocks guy (sorry forgotten your name). Very helpful with plenty of helpful advice. Not had a chance to test the Gaz Nickels I bought but they certainly look nice.

As for the fitment I was pleasantly surprised as this wasa piece of cake. I loosened all bolts in advance (didn't need my hacksaw at all). Took maybe 2-3hrs to adjust fit and re-adjust the shocks. This did not require any spring compressors (either to remove the old or to fit the new).

2. Upper Ball Joint

This would have been easy except for the fact that one of the bolts had seized completely and too and hour of hammering and hacksawing to remove the old ball joint - by the way the £10 spent on a halfords ball joint splitter was well worth it.

3. Lower Steering UJ

Because of access this wasn't as easy as the upper UJ but really wasn't too bad. I found the easiest way was to remove the Upper UJ from the steering column first then fit new lower UJ and reconnect upper UJ last.

4. Handbrake

Well I don't know for sure yet if this is totally fixed but I took some wet and dry to the drums and pads. Also cut some groves in the pads then used the plastic adjuster located in the transmission tunnel to take up the slack in the cable. BTW this adjuster is located in the stupidest place ever: remove drives side rear wheel and trace the upper cable that goes to the pasenger side wheel to find the adjuster. It can only be felt and not actually seen!!

5. Fog lights

This proved to be one of the most difficult jobs as it turned out the fog light circuit was being used to provide an earth to the immobiliser. Luckily I am an electronics engineers by trade (though its been a while since I did any real engineering) so got it all sorted in the end.

So the plan now is get an MOT next week and then I should be ready for SCH2011.

[S2Andy]

Well done Andrew and good luck with the MOT. I've found over the years that nearly every job is possible with a degree of patience and swearing, due to the way the cars were originally built. Probably not a robot in sight in Blackpool!!

Andy