Will we see people not even trying in Q3

[npope]

As it is now no so important to be in P1 but rather have a set of new tyres for the race do you think we will see people not even bother in Q3 but have the ability to have two new sets of option tyres?

[hornetrider]

In a word - yes

[Eric Mc]

Unintended consequences - but perhaps yes. We shall just have to see how all this pans out.

It's a bit like the mid 1990s when there were two qualifying sessions and sometimes the second session was a waste of time as no-one felt they could better their fisrt session times and didn't bother trying.

[npope]

Eric Mc said:

Unintended consequences - but perhaps yes. We shall just have to see how all this pans out.

It's a bit like the mid 1990s when there were two qualifying sessions and sometimes the second session was a waste of time as no-one felt they could better their fisrt session times and didn't bother trying.

The good old days :-)

[TonyHetherington]

Adrian Newey said that all they'd saved is 1 lap, not one set of tyres. An interesting observation.

But Vettel getting a clean start, no traffic, and good pace shows that 1st on the grid really does help.

[woof]

It certainly will depend on the track and whether there are good opportunities to overtake and how long the pit is (ie how long a pit stop takes).

Monaco won't be one of them - that's for sure

[mat205125]

TonyHetherington said:

Adrian Newey said that all they'd saved is 1 lap, not one set of tyres. An interesting observation.

But Vettel getting a clean start, no traffic, and good pace shows that 1st on the grid really does help.

All teams and drivers are always going to want to be as far up the grid as possible, and away from as much chaos behind them as they can be!!!

[Ultuous]

TonyHetherington said:

Adrian Newey said that all they'd saved is 1 lap, not one set of tyres. An interesting observation.

But Vettel getting a clean start, no traffic, and good pace shows that 1st on the grid really does help.

Quite... I think people are reading too much into this - whilst it is proving a useful (and interesting - it mixes up the grid a little) tactic to conserve tyres and not necessarily go all-out for to shave a few more milliseconds off the best time, track position/ not getting stuck in the rabble still seems to ultimately be king!

[Jasandjules]

TonyHetherington said:

Adrian Newey said that all they'd saved is 1 lap, not one set of tyres. An interesting observation.

But not quite right surely as there will be a out-lap and in-lap as well? It will just be one flying lap but given that the tyres only live 10-12 laps...............

[EDLT]

mat205125 said:

TonyHetherington said:

Adrian Newey said that all they'd saved is 1 lap, not one set of tyres. An interesting observation.

But Vettel getting a clean start, no traffic, and good pace shows that 1st on the grid really does help.

All teams and drivers are always going to want to be as far up the grid as possible, and away from as much chaos behind them as they can be!!!

There has been less of that first lap carnage this year though, maybe its down to being able to overtake later on.

[TonyHetherington]

Jasandjules said:

TonyHetherington said:

Adrian Newey said that all they'd saved is 1 lap, not one set of tyres. An interesting observation.

But not quite right surely as there will be a out-lap and in-lap as well? It will just be one flying lap but given that the tyres only live 10-12 laps...............

Newey discussed that in his answer on Sunday (I can't recall who it was was talking to him - possibly Brundle on his grid walk) - anyway, he said the in lap doesn't do anything, the out lap is just getting heat into them so not full wear. So rather than saving a whole set of tyres, they've just saved 1 flying lap on a new set. Of course, it's saving something and may be the difference of a lap or two use in the tyres that makes all the difference, but I think his point was that it's not the huge advantage people were claiming it to be.

[Roberty]

Yes that's possible but for the big boys it's all about bragging rights so I think they will still do at least one lap.

As much for the teams and there sponsors than just the drivers.

[Wanta996Gotta]

hornetrider said:

In a word - yes

Correct - Schumacher didnt seem to give a toss come Q3

[RustySpanner]

If tyre wear is high and teams are expecting to make 3 or 4 pitstops I think we are going to see a trend towards just a single run in Q3; assuming it is possible to overtake at the circuit. I doubt its entirely true to say that it is only 1 lap of wear on the tyres and so it does not make much difference. If one on the limit qualifying lap didn't take a good chunk of life/grip out of the tyres teams wouldn't be bolting on a new set for every quali run would they? There is obviously a first lap performance advantage to be had.
The decision to use a set of tyres in quali is a cost/benefit trade off. If you are on the front row of the grid and not being particularly threatened (Red Bull) then there is little benefit from running again. Similarly if you know that in the race you are going to have to stop because the tyres are simply worn out you'll want the benefit of the first lap performance from the tyres providing it isn't going to cost you too much time in traffic by being lower on the grid (McLaren possibly).

[hairyben]

TonyHetherington said:

Newey discussed that in his answer on Sunday (I can't recall who it was was talking to him - possibly Brundle on his grid walk) - anyway, he said the in lap doesn't do anything, the out lap is just getting heat into them so not full wear. So rather than saving a whole set of tyres, they've just saved 1 flying lap on a new set. Of course, it's saving something and may be the difference of a lap or two use in the tyres that makes all the difference, but I think his point was that it's not the huge advantage people were claiming it to be.

I'm guessing adrian's claiming the pirelli's aren't disadvantaged by a qualifying heat-cycle in the same way bridgestones were? why were vettel/webbar looking/talking smug about saving a set then?

Doesn't add up, hamilton in particular seemed to be criticising his team for not allowing him to save a new set of boots for the race, and given his race in china there must be a strong arguement for trying to save a couple of sets.

There's a lot of conflicting information about the tyres in general right now, and they seem to be a major factor in peoples races, which goes against the idea of a sole supplier I thought?

[Rufus]

I still think they should make Q3 a compulsory 1 lap shootout.

[AlexS]

hairyben said:

TonyHetherington said:

Newey discussed that in his answer on Sunday (I can't recall who it was was talking to him - possibly Brundle on his grid walk) - anyway, he said the in lap doesn't do anything, the out lap is just getting heat into them so not full wear. So rather than saving a whole set of tyres, they've just saved 1 flying lap on a new set. Of course, it's saving something and may be the difference of a lap or two use in the tyres that makes all the difference, but I think his point was that it's not the huge advantage people were claiming it to be.

I'm guessing adrian's claiming the pirelli's aren't disadvantaged by a qualifying heat-cycle in the same way bridgestones were? why were vettel/webbar looking/talking smug about saving a set then?

Doesn't add up, hamilton in particular seemed to be criticising his team for not allowing him to save a new set of boots for the race, and given his race in china there must be a strong arguement for trying to save a couple of sets.

There's a lot of conflicting information about the tyres in general right now, and they seem to be a major factor in peoples races, which goes against the idea of a sole supplier I thought?

Brundle has certainly been saying during the commentary that a completely fresh set of tyres is faster for every comparable lap of its stint than a set which has had a heat cycle put through them.

[cod man]

TonyHetherington said:

Newey discussed that in his answer on Sunday (I can't recall who it was was talking to him - possibly Brundle on his grid walk) - anyway, he said the in lap doesn't do anything, the out lap is just getting heat into them so not full wear. So rather than saving a whole set of tyres, they've just saved 1 flying lap on a new set. Of course, it's saving something and may be the difference of a lap or two use in the tyres that makes all the difference, but I think his point was that it's not the huge advantage people were claiming it to be.

I saw that interview, but the over-riding impression I got from it was "Jeez, Adrian has a big aero-dynamic head" Can't remember much else about it.

[hairyben]

AlexS said:

Brundle has certainly been saying during the commentary that a completely fresh set of tyres is faster for every comparable lap of its stint than a set which has had a heat cycle put through them.

But by how much? A tenth a lap on a tyre with 12-15 laps life expectancy isn't all that evan in F1, I'd have thought the extra lap or two before the tyre falls off the cliff would be far more relevant.

[Toro Rosso]

It looks as though most of them will go for at least 1 run in Q3 and it will then depend on how much they feel they got out of the car on that run and how close the other teams/drivers are as to whether or not they run again.

In Vettel's case on the weekend, big advantage or not, why would you bother running again if you know nobody can touch the time? The others teams all had to because they either had to defend against other teams or thought they could topple Webber.